Official #1 pick thread

[CoreyGallagher]

Saric looks like he's running in mud. He won't be able to guard anybody in the NBA. Are you watching what Kevin Love looks like out there, in these playoffs. Saric makes Love look like a cheetah on a basketball court. Saric will have to hidden on the court against back-ups.

Stop speaking in absolutes, man, rubbing people the wrong way.

[76ciology]

Undecided.

Ingram, because his strengths are highly valued in the league.

On offense, he is a good transition player and he is a triple threat on halfcourt with his ability to shoot from 3, drive with his long strides and dish. 40% of his offense comes from guard duties, that is PnR, Iso, transition and handoffs. He is the 3rd best catch and shoot player in the draft behind Murray and Hield. He is tough to stop at the upper left arc, where he shoots 50+% on 3, 40+% on mid range or he can score around the rim with his 9'3" reach and eventually added strength.

On defense, he has the tools to be an elite defender. It's tough NOT to be a good defender in the league when you have elite length and mobility. Defense nowadays is more on rotations and rim protection than individual defense. Avery Bradley has a -1.24 DRPM, almost the same DRPM with Okafor. Wiggins, a known good individual defender by eyetest peeps, also has poor defensive metrics. FWIW, Jah is also a good individual defender limiting his man -6% lower than average FG% when he is defending him at 6-10ft.

Simmons, because he can be a superstar wing if he can slide down to SF and eventually shoot from the outside.

I don't like the PF version of Simmons. Generally, star wings have more impact than star PFs. Letting him play PF would be a big waste of his talent. I don't want Simmons to play LSU halfcourt offense of being a roll man and post player. He is undersized at PF. You won't like him on defense at PF.

I want Simmons to be a ball dominant playmaker from perimeter. I want him at SF because I've seen tapes of him and saw how quick he is. I've seen him thrive playing alongside two bigs in Nike hoops summit. Chad Ford reported that he is working on his shot and has a very improved physique.

I don't want him to be Draymond Green or Blake Griffin. I want him to be in the same F'NG echelon with LEBRON, KAWHI AND KD.

[BullyKing]

Saric looks like he's running in mud. He won't be able to guard anybody in the NBA. Are you watching what Kevin Love looks like out there, in these playoffs. Saric makes Love look like a cheetah on a basketball court. Saric will have to hidden on the court against back-ups.

Have to stop speaking in absolutes, man, you're rubbing people the wrong way.

I've been on record as finding Lloyd as one of the best and most insightful posters here and I still do. But agree that perhaps the presentation can be taken down a notch. Starting to remind me on that one guy who claimed to have invented the most accurate objective prospect ranking formula possible while ignoring that it largely depended on totally subjective things like his ranking of "toughness"

[Ericb5]

I fail to see how a 6'10" 240lb. 19 year old who will get stronger and add some weight over time is undersized for the PF position. That's prototypical size, and bigger than a lot of the undersized small ball 4's that are now popular.

And when he plays SF he will have a huge size advantage.

He definitely isn't undersized per se for the position. He will be at a physical disadvantage with some match ups because of length most likely, but here is where the trickle up tendency of NBA teams will help.

There are so few real centers right now that anyone with a standing reach above 9'0 often ends up playing a lot at the 5. So some of the guys that WOULD be too long for Simmons he won't be guarding.

[Unbreakable99]

Undecided.

Ingram, because his strengths are highly valued in the league.

On offense, he is a good transition player and he is a triple threat on halfcourt with his ability to shoot from 3, drive with his long strides and dish. 40% of his offense comes from guard duties, that is PnR, Iso, transition and handoffs. He is the 3rd best catch and shoot player in the draft behind Murray and Hield. He is tough to stop at the upper left arc, where he shoots 50+% on 3, 40+% on mid range or he can score around the rim with his 9'3" reach and eventually added strength.

On defense, he has the tools to be an elite defender. It's tough NOT to be a good defender in the league when you have elite length and mobility. Defense nowadays is more on rotations and rim protection than individual defense. Avery Bradley has a -1.24 DRPM, almost the same DRPM with Okafor. Wiggins, a known good individual defender by eyetest peeps, also has poor defensive metrics.

Simmons, because he can be a superstar wing if he can slide down to SF and eventually shoot from the outside.

I don't like the PF version of Simmons. Generally, star wings have more impact than star PFs. Letting him play PF would be a big waste in his talent. I don't want Simmons to play LSU halfcourt offense of being a roll man and post player. He is undersized at PF. You won't like him on defense at PF.

I want Simmons to be a ball dominant playmaker from perimeter. I want him at SF because I've seen tapes of him and saw how quick he is. I've seen him thrive playing alongside two bigs in Nike hoops summit. Chad Ford reported that he is working on his shot and has a very improved physique.

People need to stop this narrative that Simmons is undersized as a PF. Can you please give names of all the 4s who are so much taller and longer and bigger?

And again you and others talk about him being a PF as if you can't win with him there or you won't maximize his ability. He's a basketball player. He's positionless. So what if he's listed as a PF on paper. He is going to be running some point initiating the offense. He will play on the wing some. He will play down low some. He's going to play all around. People have this PF ingrained into their consciousness that it means he will be playing on the block most times and then see the good teams of today having great guard play and perimeter play thinking Simmons won't be in that position. Just cross out PF then. Simmons' new position is basketball player if that makes you happy.

[sixerswillrule]

You picked 2 of the 3 smallest PFs in the league as as examples of matchups.

He will be at a size disadvantage against 90% of NBA PFs.

Some other examples of PF matchups are Paul Millsap, Patrick Patterson, Jonas Jerebko, Tobias Harris, Taj Gibson, Aaron Gordon, Markieff Morris, Julius Randle, Kenneth Faried, Thaddeus Young, etc.

I can count on one hand the number of PFs whose size will be a legitimate issue for Simmons,

[Kobblehead]

Saric looks like he's running in mud. He won't be able to guard anybody in the NBA. Are you watching what Kevin Love looks like out there, in these playoffs. Saric makes Love look like a cheetah on a basketball court. Saric will have to hidden on the court against back-ups.

I don't disagree with this. Remember this guy?



To me, Saric is a high-end Seth Tuttle. I think he probably projects best being a high usage 2nd unit player. Certainly a valuable piece, but moreso with creative line-ups as opposed to being a plug starter.

[76ciology]

Undecided.

Ingram, because his strengths are highly valued in the league.

On offense, he is a good transition player and he is a triple threat on halfcourt with his ability to shoot from 3, drive with his long strides and dish. 40% of his offense comes from guard duties, that is PnR, Iso, transition and handoffs. He is the 3rd best catch and shoot player in the draft behind Murray and Hield. He is tough to stop at the upper left arc, where he shoots 50+% on 3, 40+% on mid range or he can score around the rim with his 9'3" reach and eventually added strength.

On defense, he has the tools to be an elite defender. It's tough NOT to be a good defender in the league when you have elite length and mobility. Defense nowadays is more on rotations and rim protection than individual defense. Avery Bradley has a -1.24 DRPM, almost the same DRPM with Okafor. Wiggins, a known good individual defender by eyetest peeps, also has poor defensive metrics.

Simmons, because he can be a superstar wing if he can slide down to SF and eventually shoot from the outside.

I don't like the PF version of Simmons. Generally, star wings have more impact than star PFs. Letting him play PF would be a big waste in his talent. I don't want Simmons to play LSU halfcourt offense of being a roll man and post player. He is undersized at PF. You won't like him on defense at PF.

I want Simmons to be a ball dominant playmaker from perimeter. I want him at SF because I've seen tapes of him and saw how quick he is. I've seen him thrive playing alongside two bigs in Nike hoops summit. Chad Ford reported that he is working on his shot and has a very improved physique.

People need to stop this narrative that Simmons is undersized as a PF. Can you please give names of all the 4s who are so much taller and longer and bigger?

And again you and others talk about him being a PF as if you can't win with him there or you won't maximize his ability. He's a basketball player. He's positionless. So what if he's listed as a PF on paper. He is going to be running some point initiating the offense. He will play on the wing some. He will play down low some. He's going to play all around. People have this PF ingrained into their consciousness that it means he will be playing on the block most times and then see the good teams of today having great guard play and perimeter play thinking Simmons won't be in that position. Just cross out PF then. Simmons' new position is basketball player if that makes you happy.

I just don't like him to be a post player/roll man on offense. I don't see him being a superstar PF who can bulldoze his way into superstardom. Two guys who have similar measurements with Simmons IMO are Bosh (both even look the same length on TV) and Randle, both guys have struggle in the paint.

If he's positionless, then so be it. As long as I want him to play with a PF and a C that would force the opponent to put a wing on him, where he has the size advantage to score over them in the paint. And eventually he will really need to have a jumper, watch how LBJ struggles scoring in the paint even when he's already in advantageous match-up against Klay or Shaun Livingston.

[phiphan]

If thinking about Embiid + Simmons running the PnR doesn't give you boners for days, you should question your sexuality.

[Kobblehead]

If thinking about Embiid + Simmons running the PnR doesn't give you boners for days, you should question your sexuality.

It's something they'll have to work on. Neither were pick-and-roll savants during their respective freshman seasons.

[LloydFree]

I fail to see how a 6'10" 240lb. 19 year old who will get stronger and add some weight over time is undersized for the PF position. That's prototypical size, and bigger than a lot of the undersized small ball 4's that are now popular.

And when he plays SF he will have a huge size advantage.

You may be right. I don't go by height. I go by wingspan and vertical reach, which he was below average at the HS All-star games. He didn't go to the combine, so I don't know what his true measurements are. But from what I understand he's below avg for a PF.

[LloydFree]

You picked 2 of the 3 smallest PFs in the league as as examples of matchups.

He will be at a size disadvantage against 90% of NBA PFs.

Some other examples of PF matchups are Paul Millsap, Patrick Patterson, Jonas Jerebko, Tobias Harris, Taj Gibson, Aaron Gordon, Markieff Morris, Julius Randle, Kenneth Faried, Thaddeus Young, etc.

I can count on one hand the number of PFs whose size will be a legitimate issue for Simmons,

Taj Gibson doesn't count, because he has legitimate PF length. Out of the others, only one is a great player. This is the #1 pick and you're telling me about Patrick Patterson, Thad Young and Julius Randle?

[Unbreakable99]

Undecided.

Ingram, because his strengths are highly valued in the league.

On offense, he is a good transition player and he is a triple threat on halfcourt with his ability to shoot from 3, drive with his long strides and dish. 40% of his offense comes from guard duties, that is PnR, Iso, transition and handoffs. He is the 3rd best catch and shoot player in the draft behind Murray and Hield. He is tough to stop at the upper left arc, where he shoots 50+% on 3, 40+% on mid range or he can score around the rim with his 9'3" reach and eventually added strength.

On defense, he has the tools to be an elite defender. It's tough NOT to be a good defender in the league when you have elite length and mobility. Defense nowadays is more on rotations and rim protection than individual defense. Avery Bradley has a -1.24 DRPM, almost the same DRPM with Okafor. Wiggins, a known good individual defender by eyetest peeps, also has poor defensive metrics.

Simmons, because he can be a superstar wing if he can slide down to SF and eventually shoot from the outside.

I don't like the PF version of Simmons. Generally, star wings have more impact than star PFs. Letting him play PF would be a big waste in his talent. I don't want Simmons to play LSU halfcourt offense of being a roll man and post player. He is undersized at PF. You won't like him on defense at PF.

I want Simmons to be a ball dominant playmaker from perimeter. I want him at SF because I've seen tapes of him and saw how quick he is. I've seen him thrive playing alongside two bigs in Nike hoops summit. Chad Ford reported that he is working on his shot and has a very improved physique.

People need to stop this narrative that Simmons is undersized as a PF. Can you please give names of all the 4s who are so much taller and longer and bigger?

And again you and others talk about him being a PF as if you can't win with him there or you won't maximize his ability. He's a basketball player. He's positionless. So what if he's listed as a PF on paper. He is going to be running some point initiating the offense. He will play on the wing some. He will play down low some. He's going to play all around. People have this PF ingrained into their consciousness that it means he will be playing on the block most times and then see the good teams of today having great guard play and perimeter play thinking Simmons won't be in that position. Just cross out PF then. Simmons' new position is basketball player if that makes you happy.

I just don't like him to be a post player/roll man on offense. I don't see him being a superstar PF who can bulldoze his way into superstardom. Two guys who have similar measurements with Simmons IMO are Bosh (both even look the same length on TV) and Randle, both guys have struggle in the paint.

If he's positionless, then so be it. As long as I want him to play with a PF and a C that would force the opponent to put a wing on him, where he has the size advantage to score over them in the paint. Just like with Cavs that having Love and THompson forces Iggy and Barnes to defend LBJ.

Randle is not as tall as Simmons and he doesn't have close to the handles as Simmons.

[Kobblehead]

Guys, I really don't think this point is consequential enough to put the effort into it that you's are. Ben Simmons is a perimeter player that will guard either wings or small ball fours. If he's banging in the paint against bigs, he's being used wrong.

[Arsenal]

Simmons is 6'10.25" in shoes, has 7'0.5" wingspan, and 8'11" standing reach. All fine numbers for a PF.

He has a 10.25" hand length, which is very good.

His 3/4 court sprint was 3.05 sec, and he had lane agility of 10.61 sec. These numbers are crazy good for his size, he is faster and quicker than most guards.

I'm not seeing the problem here.

[phiphan]

I fail to see how a 6'10" 240lb. 19 year old who will get stronger and add some weight over time is undersized for the PF position. That's prototypical size, and bigger than a lot of the undersized small ball 4's that are now popular.

And when he plays SF he will have a huge size advantage.

You may be right. I don't go by height. I go by wingspan and vertical reach, which he was below average at the HS All-star games. He didn't go to the combine, so I don't know what his true measurements are. But from what I understand he's below avg for a PF.

Here you go. Perfectly acceptable for a PF:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/738041668860059648[/tweet]

[sixerswillrule]

You picked 2 of the 3 smallest PFs in the league as as examples of matchups.

He will be at a size disadvantage against 90% of NBA PFs.

Some other examples of PF matchups are Paul Millsap, Patrick Patterson, Jonas Jerebko, Tobias Harris, Taj Gibson, Aaron Gordon, Markieff Morris, Julius Randle, Kenneth Faried, Thaddeus Young, etc.

I can count on one hand the number of PFs whose size will be a legitimate issue for Simmons,

Taj Gibson doesn't count, because he has legitimate PF length. Out of the others, only one is a great player. This is the #1 pick and you're telling me about Patrick Patterson, Thad Young and Julius Randle?

I'm telling you about PFs he will be matched up against in response to your comment about PFs he will be matched up against. You made a wildly inaccurate statement. If you want names of PFs without great length that should be in the same sentence as a #1 pick, you already responded to that. Griffin and Love.

We can also focus on playoff teams. The number of PFs that played in the 2016 Eastern Conference Playoffs who would physically outmatch Simmons due to size/length: Zero.

[Skates]

Simmons is the size of a PF, but really he is a multi-dimensional, multi-positional player. One of the strengths everyone brings up about him is having excellent lateral quickness, fast hands and strong defensive instincts, especially in the passing lanes. I expect he will be a better perimeter defender than a post defender necessarily, though really a lot of defense comes down to effort and focus. If he has that, which sometimes waned at LSU, he will be a good to excellent defender at multiple positions. If the focus and effort aren't there, we are screwed no matter what.

[LloydFree]

Some other examples of PF matchups are Paul Millsap, Patrick Patterson, Jonas Jerebko, Tobias Harris, Taj Gibson, Aaron Gordon, Markieff Morris, Julius Randle, Kenneth Faried, Thaddeus Young, etc.

I can count on one hand the number of PFs whose size will be a legitimate issue for Simmons,

Taj Gibson doesn't count, because he has legitimate PF length. Out of the others, only one is a great player. This is the #1 pick and you're telling me about Patrick Patterson, Thad Young and Julius Randle?

I'm telling you about PFs he will be matched up against in response to your comment about PFs he will be matched up against. You made a wildly inaccurate statement. If you want names of PFs without great length that should be in the same sentence as a #1 pick, you already responded to that. Griffin and Love.

We can also focus on playoff teams. The number of PFs that played in the 2016 Eastern Conference Playoffs who would physically outmatch Simmons due to size/length: Zero.

Fair enough. 90% was an overstatement.

[Winejk]

People need to stop this narrative that Simmons is undersized as a PF. Can you please give names of all the 4s who are so much taller and longer and bigger?

And again you and others talk about him being a PF as if you can't win with him there or you won't maximize his ability. He's a basketball player. He's positionless. So what if he's listed as a PF on paper. He is going to be running some point initiating the offense. He will play on the wing some. He will play down low some. He's going to play all around. People have this PF ingrained into their consciousness that it means he will be playing on the block most times and then see the good teams of today having great guard play and perimeter play thinking Simmons won't be in that position. Just cross out PF then. Simmons' new position is basketball player if that makes you happy.

I find it funny. People are now picking on Simmons because he isn't big enough to handle PFs in the league. I don't know if it is the same people, but some people complain about how Okafor can't play PF because he's not quick/athletic enough to handle stretch 4s in the league. So basically the only perfect PF defensively would be a combination of Okafor and Simmons that can guard bruisers in the paint and mobile guys that create spacing. Who else has a PF that meets that criteria?

People's expectations are just too out of line.