The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part II

[ProcessDoctor]

How’s many guards can seriously be on the all defense 1st and 2nd team over Ben? Beverly didn’t play this year so he’s off. Smart maybe. I don’t know Smart’s metrics but I know he can play D. CP3? He plays good D but I don’t know what his metrics are this season. Who else could be over Simmons for all defense and if Simmons doesn’t make it is it a crime?

CP3, Oladipo, and Butler come to mind. Ben should definitely be in contention to make one of the teams.

Butler has been out for a while. I would not put Butler over Simmons. Not sure about Oladipo though. How do the metrics stack up among Oladipo CP3 Smart Simmons and Butler? Does anyone have that?

Quick search from BBR shows Simmons ranks 10th in DRTG, 2nd in DWS, and 7th in DBPM. None of those guards you mentioned are ahead of him in any of those categories.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_leaders.html

[Unbreakable99]

During the game today on NBA TV they put Simmons’ and LeBron’s rookie stats side by side. LeBron had Simmons in points but Simmons had LeBron in rebounds and assists. Who do you think had the better rookie season? Ben is better than LeBron in every advanced stat though. He has a better OBPM and DBPM and VORP. So who would win ROY between Ben and LeBron?

[Ericb5]

During the game today on NBA TV they put Simmons’ and LeBron’s rookie stats side by side. LeBron had Simmons in points but Simmons had LeBron in rebounds and assists. Who do you think had the better rookie season? Ben is better than LeBron in every advanced stat though. He has a better OBPM and DBPM and VORP. So who would win ROY between Ben and LeBron?

Probably Lebron, but let’s not forget that Lebron was at least 2 years young when he was a rookie.

He is the most Lebron like since Lebron for sure, and is probably the most Magic like since Magic too, as he is more Magic than Lebron is.


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[ProcessDoctor]

Probably LeBron, but you have to remember LeBron was an 18-19 y/o rookie and Simmons is 21. Not saying Simmons isn't a true rookie, but you can't deny age playing a role in his mature game.

[Unbreakable99]

During the game today on NBA TV they put Simmons’ and LeBron’s rookie stats side by side. LeBron had Simmons in points but Simmons had LeBron in rebounds and assists. Who do you think had the better rookie season? Ben is better than LeBron in every advanced stat though. He has a better OBPM and DBPM and VORP. So who would win ROY between Ben and LeBron?

Probably Lebron, but let’s not forget that Lebron was at least 2 years young when he was a rookie.

He is the most Lebron like since Lebron for sure, and is probably the most Magic like since Magic too, as he is more Magic than Lebron is.


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I know LeBron was 18. I don’t care about that. I’m only comparing rookie seasons. LeBron was a better prospect at the same age. LeBron is the goat. I’m only discussing between the rookie seasons even though LeBron was 18-19 and Ben is 20-21.

[Eyeamok]

What are you guys talking about? He's the next Boris Diaw/Lamar Odom at best.

I remember those comparisons.

[Cheatergriffin]

What are you guys talking about? He's the next Boris Diaw/Lamar Odom at best.

I remember those comparisons.

Guy i work with was always telling me hes Lamar Odom. I literally remind him everyday.

[LloydFree]

What are you guys talking about? He's the next Boris Diaw/Lamar Odom at best.

I remember those comparisons.

Guy i work with was always telling me hes Lamar Odom. I literally remind him everyday.

Lamar Odom was a great prospect and a Championship player. I don't know how that can be held up as an insult.

*** If Odom was in this upcoming draft, he'd be no lower than the #2 overall pick.

[Misteclipse]

Watching Ben play PUBG with one of my favorite streamers Grimmmz right now after another dominant performance on the court. Truly the GOAT.

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[CoreyGallagher]

Simmons and Embiid lead the league in duo net rating. When they play together, they’re +16.1 points better than opposing team (per 100 possessions).

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/

[Cheatergriffin]

I remember those comparisons.

Guy i work with was always telling me hes Lamar Odom. I literally remind him everyday.

Lamar Odom was a great prospect and a Championship player. I don't know how that can be held up as an insult.

*** If Odom was in this upcoming draft, he'd be no lower than the #2 overall pick.

He was a great prospect who didnt exactly live up to the hype. The finished result of Lamar Odoms career is the comparison hes making, not the potential lamar odom had. I get it, but simmons isnt a borderline all star type of player (odom never made an appearance fwiw). Ben simmons is the talent lamar odom was hyped to be if not better.

[76ciology]

My favorite Lamar Odom era was when Pat Riley got him in Miami and tries to mold him into Magic Johnson 2.0

If Lamar has the right head and attitude he’d be a HOF. He’s the Lakers’ secret weapon on that championship run with Gasol and Bynum. Before we saw that deathball with the Warriors, Lakers had a similar one with Kobe, Artest, Odom, Gasol and Bynum. Such a lethal unit when you run the triangle with that where you punish the mismatch at the post and have freakish length on D.

[76ciology]

Simmons and Embiid lead the league in duo net rating. When they play together, they’re +16.1 points better than opposing team (per 100 possessions).

https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/

Match-up nightmare.

I’ll put it this way. If I put Fultz or Ben and RoCo on Lowry/Derozan, LeBron/Love or Kyrie/Tatum or Hayward, i’m confident that i’ll get favorable results or atleast give them a tough time. But i dont think they have anyone who can match-up both Ben and Jojo.

[Sixerscan]

I remember those comparisons.

Guy i work with was always telling me hes Lamar Odom. I literally remind him everyday.

Lamar Odom was a great prospect and a Championship player. I don't know how that can be held up as an insult.

*** If Odom was in this upcoming draft, he'd be no lower than the #2 overall pick.

Odom was a great prospect.

The difference was that Lamar was quick for a 6'10" guy, Ben is one of the quickest guys in the league period. More stuff has become apparent since Ben has come into the league (his commitment on defense, his general mentality) but I think that was the biggest thing people were underrating when that comparison was being made.

[Ericb5]

During the game today on NBA TV they put Simmons’ and LeBron’s rookie stats side by side. LeBron had Simmons in points but Simmons had LeBron in rebounds and assists. Who do you think had the better rookie season? Ben is better than LeBron in every advanced stat though. He has a better OBPM and DBPM and VORP. So who would win ROY between Ben and LeBron?

Probably Lebron, but let’s not forget that Lebron was at least 2 years young when he was a rookie.

He is the most Lebron like since Lebron for sure, and is probably the most Magic like since Magic too, as he is more Magic than Lebron is.


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I know LeBron was 18. I don’t care about that. I’m only comparing rookie seasons. LeBron was a better prospect at the same age. LeBron is the goat. I’m only discussing between the rookie seasons even though LeBron was 18-19 and Ben is 20-21.

Looking at the numbers I think that you would have to say Simmons was a better player in his rookie season.

Lots of apples and oranges between them though.




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[Cheatergriffin]

Guy i work with was always telling me hes Lamar Odom. I literally remind him everyday.

Lamar Odom was a great prospect and a Championship player. I don't know how that can be held up as an insult.

*** If Odom was in this upcoming draft, he'd be no lower than the #2 overall pick.

Odom was a great prospect.

The difference was that Lamar was quick for a 6'10" guy, Ben is one of the quickest guys in the league period. More stuff has become apparent since Ben has come into the league (his commitment on defense, his general mentality) but I think that was the biggest thing people were underrating when that comparison was being made.

Just to add, I dont think the vision is even close from a passing perspective. Ben can run an offense which is obvious now, but many of us thought he was used poorly at LSU where he was used down low in majority of their offensive sets, not really maxmizing his potential/creativity at the collegiate level.

Its obvious to everyone now that Ben has the gift of rare vision, but many forecasted this from his high school years and glimpses in college. Odom could be used as a point forward here and there. Thats the biggest difference imo.

To me the floor was odom the ceiling was magic.

[Sixerscan]

Lamar Odom was a great prospect and a Championship player. I don't know how that can be held up as an insult.

*** If Odom was in this upcoming draft, he'd be no lower than the #2 overall pick.

Odom was a great prospect.

The difference was that Lamar was quick for a 6'10" guy, Ben is one of the quickest guys in the league period. More stuff has become apparent since Ben has come into the league (his commitment on defense, his general mentality) but I think that was the biggest thing people were underrating when that comparison was being made.

Just to add, I dont think the vision is even close from a passing perspective. Ben can run an offense which is obvious now, but many of us thought he was used poorly at LSU where he was used down low in majority of their offensive sets, not really maxmizing his potential/creativity at the collegiate level.

Its obvious to everyone now that Ben has the gift of rare vision, but many forecasted this from his high school years and glimpses in college. Odom could be used as a point forward here and there. Thats the biggest difference imo.

To me the floor was odom the ceiling was magic.

I give Brown a lot of credit for giving the keys to Ben right away. It's one thing to yell about it on a message board, it's another to implement it and hand your offense to a rookie that missed a year and didn't play the position in college, in a year where you finally have talent and everyone is expecting you to prove your worthiness as a coach. There were certainly people around the league that thought it was the wrong move and were ready to call him out if it went poorly. Instead it's arguably been Brett's best tactical decision to date.

[Unbreakable99]

Now would be a good time to revisit this. Larry Brown was a great coach but a poor talent evaluator.

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-76ers/larry-brown-whoever-saying-ben-simmons-pg-moron

“He’s not a point guard,” Brown said Monday on 97.5 The Fanatic's Midday Show. “Everybody that’s saying that is ridiculous.

“I watched that kid at Montverde. He’s a point guard when he gets the ball in the half court. He’s a point guard if he gets the ball off the board because he’s such a willing passer and so good with the ball, but if he’s going to have to back it down and bring the ball up against little guys, it’s going to take away from what he’s capable of doing. Whoever is saying that is a moron.”

[sixers hoops]

Now would be a good time to revisit this. Larry Brown was a great coach but a poor talent evaluator.

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-76ers/larry-brown-whoever-saying-ben-simmons-pg-moron

“He’s not a point guard,” Brown said Monday on 97.5 The Fanatic's Midday Show. “Everybody that’s saying that is ridiculous.

“I watched that kid at Montverde. He’s a point guard when he gets the ball in the half court. He’s a point guard if he gets the ball off the board because he’s such a willing passer and so good with the ball, but if he’s going to have to back it down and bring the ball up against little guys, it’s going to take away from what he’s capable of doing. Whoever is saying that is a moron.”

Yep. He struck out a lot on talent evaluation. He is a great coach, but he generally just wants a bunch of tough defenders and rebounders so he can muck his way to 45 wins. He is an excellent strategist though.

His classic mistake was he wanted Larry Hughes, Billy King want Paul Pierce, and Dileo wanted Dirk. And Larry used his final say to draft Hughes.

[BenSimmonsStan]

I hope he keeps up with his body workouts and doesn't suffer any ligament injuries in his legs. If he can match LeBrons longevity, he'll be the GOAT.