Joel: Unchained (Part 2)

[the_process]

I don't see how they can continue on together if there's no trust.

I mean, I don't expect Embiid to ask for a trade, and he probably doesn't have a ton of trade value anymore anyway, but they both really need to move on.

Hanging on at this point is like a desperate ex who doesn't wanna let go because they're scared there's nothing else in the future.

.

[Iverson Armband]

I don't think the article absolves Embiid of anything really, it mostly just gives you background of what he's been going through and fleshes him out as human being. Honestly, if anything it shows how difficult he is to work with. The deep seated trust issues. The never answering phone calls or texts. It does make me feel for the guy, but at the same time this is a person that would drive you crazy and only gets away with his actions due to the immense talent he has.

I'm glad he's seeking help through therapy. Going through life alone is no way to go about things. Seems like a lot of his trust issues lead to some unintentional selfishness.

Like, I'm sure in his head he says I'm putting in all this extra work just to get on the floor, I'll show up when I show up... But that doesn't really fly. The extra stuff is extra, on top of your other responsibilities. You've got to figure out how to be there for your teammates, or it creates a bad work environment. You're already unreliable in terms of being able to actually play, you can't also be unreliable in terms of the things you can actually control.

This was a good post. And I do agree the article doesn’t absolve him of anything. It’s a really good, fair piece.

I think most people are smart enough to understand why Joel acts how he acts, at-least to some agree. Still, as you mention, it does not give him a pass. How he treated the woman who needed more time with her family was appalling and simply not the things leaders do. I’m sure he’s aware of that too, and yet he still does it. So he’s making a decision, and should be aware of the criticism that will come from the decisions he makes.

[Negrodamus]

I'll just say that I was not comparing the every day job to that of a professional athlete. I was trying to relate the feeling of being treated poorly over an extended period of time and how that would affect you, such as being more wary and guarded against ownership. I am fully capable of understanding the dynamics are very different between yours and my jobs compared to Embiid, but we all share similar human emotions when we feel we're not being treated right and that might influence how we deal with conflict, even if it makes up come off immature and petty.

[eyeatoma]

The point is, you can’t have objective eyes for Joel and not afford the organization the same luxury. As has been mentioned, not everything that went wrong the organization had control over either. Let’s not also act like the Sixers organization is some kind of concentration camp. They’ve made mistakes, but it hasn’t been all terrible either.

Not sure why we need to be objective with an organization that has the most insane medical staff, coddled Ben Simmons, allowed burnergate etc. Why should they get the benefit of the doubt at all? It's not the same because it's one person against an entire organization.

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You don’t understand why it’s important to be objective? If you just want to absolve Embiid of any and all blame, then yeah I guess you wouldn’t need to be objective.

Objectively, the organization didn’t “allow” burnergate. That was all Colangelo and once it came to light, they addressed it. Yeah, they coddled Simmons just like they coddled Embiid. And once they stopped coddling Simmons, you see how he acted. They’re still coddling Embiid, to the tune of giving him $200M extensions while he’s broken down that he doesn’t even deserve, letting him coast in to seasons while he misses meetings and gives them his ass to kiss. He didn’t think the org was incompetent enough not to run and sign that lucrative extension, did he?

The medical stuff is fair.

And the medical stuff is the biggest part. Burner gate was because of the Harris allowing himself to be bent over by Sulver. That is an organizational problem. Wasn't a direct cause of it but it was a pattern.

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[76ciology]

I’ve been thinking about how we should have handled Embiid. Most people say the best move would’ve been to extend him at the end of that season, and our mistake was doing it too early. But the way he’s able to go to the media and drop stories like this, it can become a real headache for the organization. At the same time, I’m not sure he would’ve been willing to play the number of games we’d expect from him without the security of a long-term extension.

In theory, we could’ve waited until the last possible moment to extend him. But doing that might’ve opened a Pandora’s box, inviting drama, backlash from players and their agents, pressure from the players’ union, and scrutiny from the media.

We don’t want him to go full John Wick on the team.

[76ciology]

The article is basically saying..

“Be more understanding of my shortcomings. I just want to enjoy the good life, even if that means not taking care of my body. Im only human. And yeah, I went after the MVP instead of focusing on playoff success, because I felt I deserved it after everything I’ve been through.”

[Mik317]

the problem is that Biid is so good that it masked a lot of ****. It made up for all of the bad decisions made. It allowed bad team building and shortcut taking. And everyone took for granted that it would just last forever and work no matter what. The chickens have come home to roost lol. Biid's poor approach has caught up with him and a decade of bad decisions from the team means we have very little way out of it beyond hoping for one lucky run.

thats why both have to hold this on their chests

HOWEVER I feel like the FO should have been more proactive and just better overall...and thats because it has been an issue since Harris bought the team (and even before that lol). The team has botched many of medical things for a decade. they have made short sighted decisions for a decade. they have made questionable hires for a decade. Been fined for tampering and other ****...for a decade. Hell the team gets wrecked by the flu every season...FOR A **** DECADE. Thats not "well no team bats .1000 doe" that is consistent incompetence imo....and thats throught 3-4 whole different FOs, multiple head coaches, and a gazillion different players. And again was an issue before Biid ever suited up.

This does not absolve him of his issues I cannot stress that enough. He's human and trust me getting over the death of a love one is something I don't wish upon anyone and every day I question if its even possible so adding on my body giving out on me while I am away from my family as my employer is telling to do dumb ****...I get it. My bitch ass would probably have quit right there and become a twitter troll for life lol. This does not mean Biid should not have taken his body more serious prior to this year. At the end of the day its his job and while yeah he has been incredible at times, the bouts of just doo doo ball at the worst times falls on him.

YET AGAIN, on the same token this makes the FO's plan of "oh well biid will just make up for it" more insane to me. Their backup plans has been also coddling Ben Simmons and his issues, then selling the farm for a declining James Harden and his own playoff demons, and THEN wasting a whole year to spend all the money on an even more declining Paul George. If Biid has to "put up and shut up and do his job" then doesn't the same goes for our FO(s)? Some of it is retrospect, hindsight, and all that jazz but the best of the best just makes **** happen , no? Even our recent hits feel more like lucky accidents than careful well thought out planning. The final four FOs all were built off of their FOs being good at their jobs and hell even some made moves I didn't agree with at the time (mostly the Wolves with the Gobert trade and then trading Towns lol)...I have not felt like we have known wtf we were doing again for damn near a decade...and even then it probably wasn't going to work either based off of the results at the time. And again this is just the basketball moves part of things.

[Peak Brunson]

The problem is that Embiid was only great in Regular Season (to be fair, all-time great even). Many fans, even from other teams, believe that if he had better health, he would've achieved much more. However, that's not what I saw, at all. I saw a guy that had serious issues in Playoffs against good teams, even when relatively healthy. Not only this, but he always had serious stamina issues from 3rd quarters, he never fixed that part. I feel people just pretended to run with the "not healthy" part to not acknowledge he had legit issues in how he performed in Playoffs vs Regular Season, so that they had "hope" for finally "the real Embiid showing up in Playoffs".
At the end of the day, Embiid didn't learn the fundamentals properly and focused too much on the 1 on 1 stuff with Hanlen, but games are not played 1 vs 1, he always had issues with double teams when teams were serious about defending (aka in playoffs).
I think it's both true that Sixers failed Embiid and Embiid failed Sixers. Embiid didn't handle the off the court stuff properly, while Sixers didn't help him the way he, a guy with very little basketball experience when he was drafted, needed.

[76ciology]

The problem is that Embiid was only great in Regular Season (to be fair, all-time great even). Many fans, even from other teams, believe that if he had better health, he would've achieved much more. However, that's not what I saw, at all. I saw a guy that had serious issues in Playoffs against good teams, even when relatively healthy. Not only this, but he always had serious stamina issues from 3rd quarters, he never fixed that part. I feel people just pretended to run with the "not healthy" part to not acknowledge he had legit issues in how he performed in Playoffs vs Regular Season, so that they had "hope" for finally "the real Embiid showing up in Playoffs".
At the end of the day, Embiid didn't learn the fundamentals properly and focused too much on the 1 on 1 stuff with Hanlen, but games are not played 1 vs 1, he always had issues with double teams when teams were serious about defending (aka in playoffs).
I think it's both true that Sixers failed Embiid and Embiid failed Sixers. Embiid didn't handle the off the court stuff properly, while Sixers didn't help him the way he, a guy with very little basketball experience when he was drafted, needed.

I’d also add that Embiid either doesn’t know how to pace himself, or just refuses to. He’s the complete opposite of someone like Jimmy Butler. Jimmy often coasts through stretches of the game, looks even like he’s deferring, and then ramps it up when it matters most. Embiid, on the other hand, likes to do most of his damage early, when opposing bigs are trying to avoid foul trouble.

At times, it even feels like opposing teams are baiting him into playing that way, knowing he’ll be gassed by the fourth quarter. It’s either poor pacing on his part or smart game-planning from the other side.

Another thing I’ve noticed.. refs tend to balance foul calls and free throws between teams. I don’t agree with it, but it’s just how the game is managed. The problem is, Embiid leans heavily into foul baiting early in games and usually gets those calls. Then later, when the refs are subconsciously trying to even things out, he expects the same treatment.

But down the stretch, the refs won’t give him those same bailout calls, because doing so would tip the foul count too far in Philly’s favor, and they know it’ll become controversial if the Sixers win that way. Embiid hasn’t adjusted to that reality. You saw this clearly in the Knicks series, he kept trying to foul-bait in crunch time, and it just didn’t work.

And lastly, if you are not feeling well and you are experiencing something weird on your knees, you shouldn’t throw the ball to the backboard and try to create some highlight to hurt yourself. It’s one of the “WTF” moment I saw from him.

[Jailblazers7]

I think I agree with everyone in this thread lol. The organization clearly sucks and the incompetence during Embiid’s career ruined many opportunities at a championship run. Injury management, roster management, and culture have all been bad for a decade and that goes back to the front office + ownership.

However, Embiid has clearly self-sabotaged and has been a difficult person to be around. He is quick to distrust, sullen, and hasn’t taken appropriate care of his body since he entered the league. His issues with the team are obviously valid but he’s never controlled the things within his control (diet, conditioning, consistent rehab, etc) so his grievances ring hollow.

Overall, it’s just depressing to me. He’s lived a sad & lonely life and he’s struggling now to break old habits that have led him here. I hope he figures it out for his own sake because he has the opportunity to live a blessed and happy life in front of him.

[Peak Brunson]

I will add that peak Embiid coinciding with peak Jokic also didn't help, he got more hate than he would've gotten otherwise, of course he would've still got hated anyway, but nowhere near as much, I've never seen an MVP race get so much hate. This also affected him more than it would've otherwise I believe.

[Arsenal]

We need some real news so you guys don’t have to resort to this psychoanalysis bs of Joel to fill the time.

[youngcrev]

One part of the article that I haven't seen people talk much about is the refusal of Morey and Embiid to even contemplate the idea that he may be just be done. I actually found it kind of optimistic that neither guy was willing to go down that path yet in terms of what's ahead. Obviously, it's a very real possibility that they may just be in denial about, but they at least seem to have hope.

[the_process]

One part of the article that I haven't seen people talk much about is the refusal of Morey and Embiid to even contemplate the idea that he may be just be done. I actually found it kind of optimistic that neither guy was willing to go down that path yet in terms of what's ahead. Obviously, it's a very real possibility that they may just be in denial about, but they at least seem to have hope.

[Negrodamus]

Watch on YouTube

Interesting discussion

[youngcrev]

One part of the article that I haven't seen people talk much about is the refusal of Morey and Embiid to even contemplate the idea that he may be just be done. I actually found it kind of optimistic that neither guy was willing to go down that path yet in terms of what's ahead. Obviously, it's a very real possibility that they may just be in denial about, but they at least seem to have hope.

Thinking we're getting off those contracts if those guys aren't healthy feels a lot more foolish than simply hoping for them to be healthy, so I'm choosing to be cautiously optimistic.

[Iverson Armband]

Watch on YouTube

Interesting discussion

Glad he cleaned up the intern thing. People took that and just ran with it.

[Jailblazers7]

We need some real news so you guys don’t have to resort to this psychoanalysis bs of Joel to fill the time.

We all put up with you posting “VJ Melton” 100 times per day pre-draft so maybe just log off until the season starts.

[Arsenal]

We need some real news so you guys don’t have to resort to this psychoanalysis bs of Joel to fill the time.

We all put up with you posting “VJ Melton” 100 times per day pre-draft so maybe just log off until the season starts.

Get some Prozac or Zoloft for your depression son. No one wants to read paragraphs of nonsense from you psychoanalyzing Joel.

You’re not qualified for that lol.

[FlyingArrow]

We need some real news so you guys don’t have to resort to this psychoanalysis bs of Joel to fill the time.

We all put up with you posting “VJ Melton” 100 times per day pre-draft so maybe just log off until the season starts.

Get some Prozac or Zoloft for your depression son. No one wants to read paragraphs of nonsense from you psychoanalyzing Joel.

You’re not qualified for that lol.

It's cute how you said "son". Nice.