So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[76ciology]

If it needs Ben Simmons and picks for Beal, then let’s just go after Zach Lavine.

[BullyKing]

Can anyone check what is 538’s player projection for Beal?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-player-projections/bradley-beal/

There’s a problem with my internet explorer 1.0

Borderline all-star.

By comparison, Simmons is All-Star without qualification with wins above replacement higher than Beal in every year going forward.

Edit: Let me know if it was information you were asking for.

[76ciology]

Can anyone check what is 538’s player projection for Beal?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-player-projections/bradley-beal/

There’s a problem with my internet explorer 1.0

Borderline all-star.

By comparison, Simmons is All-Star without qualification with wins above replacement higher than Beal in every year going forward.

Edit: Let me know if it was information you were asking for.

Thanks!

Thats why Im not comfortable in trading Ben for Beal. Specially if I have to give up picks.

Beal is a very good player. But he’s not THAT good. That he can demand the asking price of AD, PG or Kawhi.

If Beal asks for a trade, the best player on the package their getting are guys like Bledsoe, Tobi and Levert. Then those teams will add a pick or two. Which if we add Shake, we should only give a pick. If they want a couple of picks, then we trade Shake to a third team and get a pick back.

That is unless Beal doesnt ask to be traded, then this is where TGP’s sentiment should kick in. Where we have to blow the Wiz away to some offer for them to hand us Beal.

[BullyKing]

Can anyone check what is 538’s player projection for Beal?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-player-projections/bradley-beal/

There’s a problem with my internet explorer 1.0

Borderline all-star.

By comparison, Simmons is All-Star without qualification with wins above replacement higher than Beal in every year going forward.

Edit: Let me know if it was information you were asking for.

Thanks!

Thats why Im not comfortable in trading Ben for Beal. Specially if I have to give up picks.

Beal is a very good player. But he’s not THAT good. That he can demand the asking price of AD, PG or Kawhi.

If Beal asks for a trade, the best player on the package their getting are guys like Bledsoe, Tobi and Levert. Then those teams will add a pick or two. Which if we add Shake, we should only give a pick. If they want a couple of picks, then we trade Shake to a third team and get a pick back.

That is unless Beal doesnt ask to be traded, then this is where TGP’s sentiment should kick in. Where we have to blow the Wiz away to some offer for them to hand us Beal.

My current mindset is more what you expressed in the other thread. Milton and Maxey have honestly blown away my expectations so far and I kind of want to get a larger sample size on them to have a better understanding of what they really are. Since we're no longer talking about a Harden level player, I kind of want to know whether we already have a reasonable facsimile of the player we're looking to add in-house.

Honestly, it's hard to know since we haven't really played anyone good (including the version of the Heat that we've played) and most of our losses came when we were really short handed.

[76ciology]

Borderline all-star.

By comparison, Simmons is All-Star without qualification with wins above replacement higher than Beal in every year going forward.

Edit: Let me know if it was information you were asking for.

Thanks!

Thats why Im not comfortable in trading Ben for Beal. Specially if I have to give up picks.

Beal is a very good player. But he’s not THAT good. That he can demand the asking price of AD, PG or Kawhi.

If Beal asks for a trade, the best player on the package their getting are guys like Bledsoe, Tobi and Levert. Then those teams will add a pick or two. Which if we add Shake, we should only give a pick. If they want a couple of picks, then we trade Shake to a third team and get a pick back.

That is unless Beal doesnt ask to be traded, then this is where TGP’s sentiment should kick in. Where we have to blow the Wiz away to some offer for them to hand us Beal.

My current mindset is more what you expressed in the other thread. Milton and Maxey have honestly blown away my expectations so far and I kind of want to get a larger sample size on them to have a better understanding of what they really are. Since we're no longer talking about a Harden level player, I kind of want to know whether we already have a reasonable facsimile of the player we're looking to add in-house.

Honestly, it's hard to know since we haven't really played anyone good (including the version of the Heat that we've played) and most of our losses came when we were really short handed.

True.

I mean, Gabe Vincent is averaging like 23ppg on our last two games against them. LOL

Really hard to gauge the guys right now

[VDT]

The Wizards sure as hell wouldn't.

What are the better offers out there?

Any offer that doesn't involve taking Harris and his ridiculously overbloated, negative contract, for one. Just look at what you're offering. No offense to Shake Milton, but he's a bench player and adds minimal value. The unprotected first will most likely be in the twenties.

You want to make a decent offer? Start with Simmons. Now take into consideration that the Wizards probably won't want to trade one of the best offensive players in the league for one who struggles to make a shot outside of the paint, which means you'll have to figure out the value difference between Simmons and Beal. To me, the value difference is massive (personally I don't want anything to do with Simmons as a Wizards fan, but he probably has more value to an actual GM than me).

At this point, I'd say Miami has the best shot.

If you think so highly of Beal you should keep him and continue to be in the lottery. Lets not pretend that he is some huge impact guy.

[elchengue20]

Beal would cost Simmons and picks.

I'll try to get Lavine and Porter for Simmons, maybe a pick.

[Stanford]

NOt exactly. Giannis had lower trajectory than Ben across the board in his first 3 years

In what sense was his trajectory lower after 3 years of data?

Giannis Antetokounmpo, ages 19, 20, 21
Ben Simmons, ages 21, 22, 23

Points per 36
10.0 > 14.6 > 17.2
16.9 > 17.8 > 16.7

Rebounds per 36
6.4 > 7.7 > 7.8
8.7 > 9.3 > 7.9

Assists per 36
2.8 > 2.9 > 4.4
8.7 > 8.1 > 8.1

TS%
.518 > .552 > .566
.557 > .582 > .602

Usage
15.0 > 19.6 > 22.3
22.3 > 22.1 > 20.9

TO%
19.4 > 15.6 > 14.8
19.5 > 19.3 > 20.4

BPM
-2.5 > 0.0 > 2.1
4.5 > 3.6 > 3.6

Other than TS%, Ben's production is either a straight line or a decline. Giannis makes improvement every year of his first three years. Additionally, Giannis didn't even start playing basketball until he was 13 and finished his third year in the NBA at the same age that Ben was as a rookie. No one can look at this scenario and suggest that Ben had a higher trajectory than Giannis after three years.

[Arsenal]

Answer to thread title: NO PIVOT

Our team is rolling and looking great. Our young guys are balling out. We have no reason to make a panic trade.

Give these guys a full season together and then reassess.

[TGW]

What are the better offers out there?

Any offer that doesn't involve taking Harris and his ridiculously overbloated, negative contract, for one. Just look at what you're offering. No offense to Shake Milton, but he's a bench player and adds minimal value. The unprotected first will most likely be in the twenties.

You want to make a decent offer? Start with Simmons. Now take into consideration that the Wizards probably won't want to trade one of the best offensive players in the league for one who struggles to make a shot outside of the paint, which means you'll have to figure out the value difference between Simmons and Beal. To me, the value difference is massive (personally I don't want anything to do with Simmons as a Wizards fan, but he probably has more value to an actual GM than me).

At this point, I'd say Miami has the best shot.

If you think so highly of Beal you should keep him and continue to be in the lottery. Lets not pretend that he is some huge impact guy.

Take the Sixers and subtract embiid and harris. How many games is that team winning? My guess is not a lot.

[Lou_23]

The best thing about be a Sixer fan is that Morey is the President.

He would laught with some fan proposals.

[Tomjas]

The Wizards sure as hell wouldn't.

What are the better offers out there?

Any offer that doesn't involve taking Harris and his ridiculously overbloated, negative contract, for one. Just look at what you're offering. No offense to Shake Milton, but he's a bench player and adds minimal value. The unprotected first will most likely be in the twenties.

You want to make a decent offer? Start with Simmons. Now take into consideration that the Wizards probably won't want to trade one of the best offensive players in the league for one who struggles to make a shot outside of the paint, which means you'll have to figure out the value difference between Simmons and Beal. To me, the value difference is massive (personally I don't want anything to do with Simmons as a Wizards fan, but he probably has more value to an actual GM than me).

At this point, I'd say Miami has the best shot.

Simmons is a perennial all star who plays winning basketball

Beal is none of the above

You are right

The value difference is massive

[Negrodamus]

Answer to thread title: NO PIVOT

Our team is rolling and looking great. Our young guys are balling out. We have no reason to make a panic trade.

Give these guys a full season together and then reassess.

This is probably the realistic answer. I don't see the Sixers giving up on Ben if it's not totally broken; especially if there are no disgruntled superstars on the market. I do think we'll eventually look back on these days thinking "what could have been". The fit is just not there.

[TGW]

What are the better offers out there?

Any offer that doesn't involve taking Harris and his ridiculously overbloated, negative contract, for one. Just look at what you're offering. No offense to Shake Milton, but he's a bench player and adds minimal value. The unprotected first will most likely be in the twenties.

You want to make a decent offer? Start with Simmons. Now take into consideration that the Wizards probably won't want to trade one of the best offensive players in the league for one who struggles to make a shot outside of the paint, which means you'll have to figure out the value difference between Simmons and Beal. To me, the value difference is massive (personally I don't want anything to do with Simmons as a Wizards fan, but he probably has more value to an actual GM than me).

At this point, I'd say Miami has the best shot.

Simmons is a perennial all star who plays winning basketball

Beal is none of the above

You are right

The value difference is massive

LOL this thread is dedicated to trading for Beal. The Wizards don't have a similar thread dedicated to Simmons.

GL with your guy though. Hopefully he works harder on his game so that he can develop a jumpshot.

[76ciology]

Any offer that doesn't involve taking Harris and his ridiculously overbloated, negative contract, for one. Just look at what you're offering. No offense to Shake Milton, but he's a bench player and adds minimal value. The unprotected first will most likely be in the twenties.

You want to make a decent offer? Start with Simmons. Now take into consideration that the Wizards probably won't want to trade one of the best offensive players in the league for one who struggles to make a shot outside of the paint, which means you'll have to figure out the value difference between Simmons and Beal. To me, the value difference is massive (personally I don't want anything to do with Simmons as a Wizards fan, but he probably has more value to an actual GM than me).

At this point, I'd say Miami has the best shot.

Simmons is a perennial all star who plays winning basketball

Beal is none of the above

You are right

The value difference is massive

LOL this thread is dedicated to trading for Beal. The Wizards don't have a similar thread dedicated to Simmons.

GL with your guy though. Hopefully he works harder on his game so that he can develop a jumpshot.

Actually.. its not dedicated to trading for Beal.

Read the title.

[eyeatoma]

As others have said I'm beginning to make my peace with not doing this trade. It looks more and more like we were used, and never in my wildest dreams did I think that Maxey would be this good this early. Shake is even better, the dude is a legit Lou Williams level microwave scorer. We could theoretically start one of them if we wanted. We have lots of options.

I definitely still want moves, but only if they make sense. If nothing is available, or if we have to sell our young guys, then I'd rather stand pat, and make moves in the offseason if things don't work out.

This was something interested I saw though. Makes sense, and seems plausible.

Read on Twitter

[youngcrev]

As others have said I'm beginning to make my peace with not doing this trade. It looks more and more like we were used, and never in my wildest dreams did I think that Maxey would be this good this early. Shake is even better, the dude is a legit Lou Williams level microwave scorer. We could theoretically start one of them if we wanted. We have lots of options.

I definitely still want moves, but only if they make sense. If nothing is available, or if we have to sell our young guys, then I'd rather stand pat, and make moves in the offseason if things don't work out.

This was something interested I saw though. Makes sense, and seems plausible.

Read on Twitter

They left out the part where Dinwiddie "injured" himself (We demand to see the MRI!)

The simplest explanation is that Kyrie is a crazy person (unless he's been playing the long game for years now), and Harden got sick of waiting and decided to force Houston's hand.

[Skates]

We need a legit upgrade on the Mike Scott role, scoring big off the bench (and one who can slide into the starting lineup when Tobi or Embiid are out).

Next in line, going from smallest to largest change, would be to upgrade Danny Green. I like what Green is doing, but if we have the chance to use his very movable salary and upgrade at SF with a draft pick connected to him, that is the next step.

Big franchise altering trades happen three times, when a legit superstar is on the market, at the deadline and in the offseason. No stars on the market right now, not clearly so anyway, and let's see what we have up to the deadline and possibly the summer. The we can't get Giannis group is likely to be amenable to big moves this summer, and by the deadline we should have a better idea about this team, the East competition and how the league as a whole is going. It is such a screwy year, that might affect team's willingness to make a big win now move since so much could go wrong even for the best of teams, and some might see that as an inverse opportunity and go for it because of that.

[Lou_23]

LOL this thread is dedicated to trading for Beal. The Wizards don't have a similar thread dedicated to Simmons. .

Simmons is not playing in a losing team....
Simmons wont be a FA in 2022....

People write about Beal because he can be in the market this year.

[stormi]

In the past few seasons we've seen: Kawhi get moved (2x), AD, Harden, Chris Paul (3x), Butler (3x), Russ (trash), Durant, Kyrie (2x)

Guys become available and things change so fast during the NBA calendar. We'll absolutely get another chance and it won't be a Lavine tier player.