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Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch

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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#201 » by Murray_17 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:21 pm

76ciology wrote:
Without Jojo 106 DRtg
With Jojo 116 DRtg, not 111.
Sixers 114 DRtg for the season




Care to share where you obtained the with and without splits?

Doesn't make sense, Embiid DRtg should be the same as the team with him. Bballref and NBA.com have his Drtg at 111.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#202 » by 76ciology » Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:29 pm

Murray_17 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Without Jojo 106 DRtg
With Jojo 116 DRtg, not 111.
Sixers 114 DRtg for the season




Care to share where you obtained the with and without splits?

Doesn't make sense, Embiid DRtg should be the same as the team with him. Bballref and NBA.com have his Drtg at 111.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html


Sure.

I also had the same mistake before with BKREF’s per 100 numbers (i know this because i was a prokafor before and ive learned from my mistake)

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612755/onoffcourt-advanced

Fwiw, you can just say its small sample size and I’d agree with that. And again, im not dismissing the idea that Jo and the team with Jo can play better defense. My point is more that for the mean time, that isnt the case right now
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#203 » by sodmoraes » Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:53 pm

It may be a coincidence, but it seems that every game Embiid misses we win and Maxey explodes... Not saying we should trade Embiid, but i think he should have less usage in our offense.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#204 » by blargh » Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:58 pm

76ciology wrote:I’ll say it again. You neither are playing small or playing big with Embiid and Tucker.

So because you play neither, you are vulnerable to teams playing small or playing big.

You are small and you are playing slow.

If you are small, you play fast.
If you are big, you play slow.

Do we switch? Why is someone playing drop on defense?

Which one are you?


Why are we acting like switching and drop defense are the only two options? There’s a whole range of options in the middle, where the big man shows and recovers with varying levels of aggressiveness. That’s what most NBA teams do on most screen possessions.

I don’t think the Sixers issues right now on d are a matter of scheme. Its a little about effort and a lot about communication.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#205 » by Eyeamok » Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:12 pm

Jay555 wrote:Biid is not the problem.

But Doc needs to get creative with the lineups. It’s clear the starting lineup is meh. Also Thybulle & Melton need to get a lot more playing time. Once Doc finds the right formula, this team would be ok. Not sure if Doc can pull it off tho..

The slow pace starting lineup is built for playoff tho when things slow down.


Absolutely more talent more problems. But this is why you pay Doc 8 million dollars to figure this chit out. If he can't get it to work, this season, he is doing himself and the 76ers a big disservice.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#206 » by phillynative » Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:14 pm

76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:I would say it's more of the wing combo of Tucker and Tobias on both ends thats hurting us and the defense overall. Embiid is not really playing like himself due to lack of conditioning and ailments but we know he will be better.


but why when we played Melton over Embiid tonight, everything suddenly everyone is better on defense?

Tucker, Tobias, Harden and Maxey all were OK to good playing small ball defense. But when Embiid is there, suddenly they become worse?


The way to play with embiid is to surround him with guys who are fast to switch and rotate. Let opponents post them up, then you have Biid and another big sending help and crashing boards. Cavs, Bucks, Warriors and the Pacers are playing that scheme.

But there’s no way you can win if you have a Biid centric offense. Maybe if you face Plumlee and Cody Zeller on a nightly basis but no way will that work against the top defensive teams. either the 3s or TOs will beat you


The improvement on defense came from being quicker by going smaller and not only being able to get back better on the break but also being better defensively on the perimeter. Doc inserted Melton in the lineup and decided to finally play Matisse, 2 athletic defensive minded wings. Melton played 31 mins while Mattise played 22 mins vs last game where you only have 22 mins of a viable defender vs this game where you have a viable peremiter defender on the floor at all times between the two combining for 6steals and 2blks plus deflections. You also move slow a** Tobi and Tucker up to their true position small ball 4 & 5.

Assists , Rebs , and 3point percentage were mostly similar between the teams in the first game. What made the difference was fast break points.In the last game between raptors and sixers, fastbreak points were 29 vs 17 raptors edge. This game fastbreak points were 15 vs 16 virtually identical.

Maxey being on the ball and being a offensive focal point made a huge difference as well. It's not just that he had an explosive game he literally wore out all of the raptors peremiter guys with his speed. Vanfleet, Trent and O.G were a combined 13 for 42 it's not a coincidence they were worn down from chasing Maxey and the ball around. Maxey on the ball using his speed getting by everyone, collapsing the defense and running off screen was and should continue to be apart of the teams identity moving forward.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#207 » by Negrodamus » Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:47 pm

sodmoraes wrote:It may be a coincidence, but it seems that every game Embiid misses we win and Maxey explodes... Not saying we should trade Embiid, but i think he should have less usage in our offense.


I’d gladly blame this on Doc, but there’s literally a video of Doc telling Maxey to call plays for himself when he has the ball. There’s definitely a “pecking order” for shots on this team and I’m not sure Embiid is ready to give up his shots.

That said, I’m not against Embiid shooting a lot, he just needs to make his move within 2 seconds of touching the ball and either shoot it or pass it out. He’s a liability once it passes 2 seconds.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#208 » by Bum Adebayo » Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:51 pm

Embiid is the 1st option on offense in the pecking order, and that's absolutely fine.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#209 » by mjkvol » Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:10 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
76ciology wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Bro, I know you're joking, but you're just setting it up for the trolls to come on.

If you're not joking, then I'm not really sure what to say, because we've heard this talk before, and the last two seasons he was the runner up for the MVP.

It's just such a tired take.


I see no lie though. This team has played better without Jojo, so his opinion has reasons behind it and was not a lie.

If we had discussions like this about ben before, rather than trying to cancel/silence anyone who criticizes Ben, then we probably had cut our losses sooner.

Im not promoting trading Biid. But this team has played better without him and we either have to do something to use him while not hurting us or we need to explore some options that is hard to accept.


When did I say it was a lie? I'm saying it's a comical assertion. The reason they are able to have more movement, is because Embiid is not that type of player. Once the playoffs roll around if you only have Maxey and Harden this time is not a title team. I just think instead of blaming Embiid, maybe blame Doc for not prioritizing Maxey as the #2 over Harden on offense. At times Maxey is the 4th or 5th option on offense for the first few games.

As far as the defense, the reason it looked far better was because Melton started and Thybulle played much more minutes. Neither of that happened in the past. We lost one game solely on Maxey getting burned in the pick and roll in the 4th quarter. That was the game we lost to the Spurs where Embiid had 40. It's just too easy to look at what's missing on the day of the win and assume it's because of Embiid, when there are so many things wrong with this team that Embiid is not responsible.


Trading Embiid is not only a crazy idea, it's ridiculous in that you might as well tear the whole thing down and tank if that's the plan. It isn't as if you're going to get a stud wing that fits this group, but you'll either get spare parts or a bunch of picks, neither of which helps us now.

Here's the bottom line - the pieces to win might be here now, but the only way to find out is with a coach who is open minded, imaginative, and creative enough to use the regular season as a 'laboratory' of sorts to find out what scheme and rotations work. It might take 3-4 months, but we have enough talent to coast to a playoff spot while experimenting with different combinations and potentially stepping on some toes.

That coach is clearly not Glenn Rivers, and the sooner Morey makes that assertion and the tough decision to replace him, the sooner this group will have a shot to be something special. I see all the definitive "here's how we should play and who should be in the rotation" takes here, and I don't claim to know the answer. The one thing I know for certain is that as long as this dinosaur is running things, this group will flounder between iso-ball, small ball, switching defense, drop defense, and whatever else, and will once again be second round fodder come playoff time.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#210 » by Jailblazers7 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:59 pm

One thing I’m noticing watching the condensed replay is that I really liked the action we got from a Harden/Melton PnR. Melton as a screener is something we should explore throughout the season.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#211 » by Eyeamok » Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:06 pm

I'm not going to lie it was great seeing Maxey go off last night and it was equally as great not hearing Kate scream mad Max mad Max all damn night.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#212 » by 76ciology » Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:22 pm

Eyeamok wrote:I'm not going to lie it was great seeing Maxey go off last night and it was equally as great not hearing Kate scream mad Max mad Max all damn night.


We all can agree with this one :lol:
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#213 » by FireMorey » Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:03 pm

Anyone know what's up with Embiid? What is "right knee recovery" 6 games into the season?
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#214 » by Bum Adebayo » Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:45 pm

FireMorey wrote:Anyone know what's up with Embiid? What is "right knee recovery" 6 games into the season?


This time it's different though, he has been putting dat effort getting into shape and taking care of his body...
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#215 » by youngcrev » Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:59 pm

FireMorey wrote:Anyone know what's up with Embiid? What is "right knee recovery" 6 games into the season?


Load management so that he can play the back end of a back-to-back
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#216 » by DCasey91 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:09 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:It’s easy make Embiid the third option and go all in on defence which he really should be if you think about it.

He needs the most adjustment because you cannot go through a heavy iso big that floats (11 shots outside 11 feet? Stupid at its finest) that’s not a great shooter and frankly a sh*t passer to go along with bad awareness when swarmed.

Doc mentioned before the season he wants to give Embiid even more shots... I couldn’t believe it. Max 20 shots that’s it that’s all you get if your not hot tough sh*t.
You don't make the leagues former scoring leader with insane efficiency the #3.

It should be Embiid
Then Maxey
Then Harden

Harden is still good, but he has off games far more often. Using the threat of his shot to get his teammates shots isn what he should do.

I do think Tucker has been a flop. Melton can help alot, so can Thybulle.

Still think when Jo comes we won't be great, not negate because of him but because of Doc's stubbornness with rotations and preferring certain players.

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No it shouldn’t, Embiid’s offence is massively overrated it’s nothing like Dirk, KD, and it’s far away from Lebron/Magic/Jokic. And he’s not insanely efficient, he has a saturated effect imo because he can’t got the full distance per game. Diminishing returns.

How many top 5 offensive seasons has he led? How has his playoff numbers compare? It’s chalk and cheese to me.

Really in the crunch where’s the incredible score creation? Answer there is none. Time and time again we’ve seen it but refuse to accept the obvious, he’s in iso float heavy big that’s not a great shooter and a way worse passer. That’s impossible to build around if you want to win. defence though different story but that’s totally up to him.

If the Sixers want to go all in one Embiid hypercentrism you’ll die on that hill. Said it years ago I don’t buy it not one bit.

Now if Embiid turned into an ATG defender then our championship contention will be legitimate.

Everything else 100% agree with.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#217 » by DCasey91 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:19 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Embiid is the 1st option on offense in the pecking order, and that's absolutely fine.


No it’s not fine. If that’s the pecking order you won’t win anything. The offence should run through Harden/Maxey

If Embiid actually exhausted himself on defence and get more of a recipient role on offence (all goat level bigs did this fwiw) then our team will explode overnight.

Little guy sets up big guy not the big guy wanting to do everything all the time.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#218 » by Bum Adebayo » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:24 pm

But Embiid is very efficient his offense is really good nothing could go wrong if he is first options
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#219 » by Negrodamus » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:30 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:Embiid is the 1st option on offense in the pecking order, and that's absolutely fine.


No it’s not fine. If that’s the pecking order you won’t win anything. The offence should run through Harden/Maxey

If Embiid actually exhausted himself on defence and get more of a recipient role on offence (all goat level bigs did this fwiw) then our team will explode overnight.

Little guy sets up big guy not the big guy wanting to do everything all the time.


He's being sarcastic because it's funny... Everyone is in agreement that it is, in fact, very funny.
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Re: Game 6: Raptors - Sixers... doc rivers watch 

Post#220 » by DCasey91 » Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:35 pm

I know but the thing I’m most disappointed about him is I thought by now he’d have a DPOY and be undisputed most impactful defender in the game bar Green/Giannis but a center version. And at least an ECF birth but that all seems like a fantasy now.

Superstars can have massive holes in their game but some have the self awareness to realise this and adapt. Embiid is well and truely going the wrong way.
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