Summer 2019 Free Agency Thread

[BullyKing]

Thats great. If we were so desperate for stars, maybe we should have burned up all our assets on "stars" who were actually under long-term contract instead of 2 rentals for less than a season with resulting heavy risk of losing them.

Who was the last person traded that you consider a star that had multiple years left on their deal when they were traded? Blake Griffin is the only recent one that comes to mind. 9/10 out of ten, the fact that the star isn't signed long term is the only reason they're obtainable at all.

Kyrie Irving had 2 years left.

Otto Porter had 2+ years left, and before you say he's not a star, I say he's just as much of a star as Tobias Harris is.

DeMarcus Cousins had 1.5 years left.

Jimmy Butler was traded from the Bulls to the Wolves w/2 years left.

Eric Bledsoe was traded to the Bucks with 1.5 years left.

Meanwhile we traded for rentals of Butler with 3/4 of a season left and Harris with 1/3 of a season left going into an offseason with the most open cap room by far all over the league.

And yet everyone one of those people other than Bledsoe (and that's a loose star definition) did not resign. So if we traded for a guy with two years left, percentages say he would walk next offseason only we'd be without nearly as much cap space to replace them.

Like I don't disagree with you that the Tobias trade was not good. But if they both walk then it's clear that the fundamental issue was and remains our inability to attract free agents. Either way, we're sitting here with Embiid, Simmons, and cap space with nothing good to spend it on. We're screwed in either scenario regardless of whether we still have Landry Shamet.

[Arsenal]

You keep saying we burned up all our assets. We traded 3 role players and a future first.

The price we paid is actually shockingly low.

Shameet might be a 10 year starter in this league. If you give him and two firsts up for a few months of Tobias, that’s really sucks. And you’re someone who values those late firsts.

The Butler trade was a no-brainer, but if Jimmy walks, we miss out on those increasingly cheap Roco years for a rental. Nevertheless, Butler trade was a calculated risk to get an all-pro in here, see how he fits, and sell him on long term.

I think his point is more that you can think the Harris trade was not a good one while also thinking it did not entirely deplete us of assets. It's not like we went Billy King all in on this.

That's only because we had a surplus of assets thanks to Santa Hinkie to begin with. Those are all gone now to pay for rentals who we either lose for nothing, or have to overpay. Not a smart use of assets, but here we are.

[BullyKing]

Shameet might be a 10 year starter in this league. If you give him and two firsts up for a few months of Tobias, that’s really sucks. And you’re someone who values those late firsts.

The Butler trade was a no-brainer, but if Jimmy walks, we miss out on those increasingly cheap Roco years for a rental. Nevertheless, Butler trade was a calculated risk to get an all-pro in here, see how he fits, and sell him on long term.

I think his point is more that you can think the Harris trade was not a good one while also thinking it did not entirely deplete us of assets. It's not like we went Billy King all in on this.

That's only because we had a surplus of assets thanks to Santa Hinkie to begin with. Those are all gone now to pay for rentals who we either lose for nothing, or have to overpay. Not a smart use of assets, but here we are.

You're missing the point. We'd be in this situation regardless. If we fail, it's not because we didn't use our assets wisely. We didn't. But the reason we failed is because of our inability to attract free agents.

[FireMorey]

Read on Twitter

Not legitimate source.

[Arsenal]

I think his point is more that you can think the Harris trade was not a good one while also thinking it did not entirely deplete us of assets. It's not like we went Billy King all in on this.

That's only because we had a surplus of assets thanks to Santa Hinkie to begin with. Those are all gone now to pay for rentals who we either lose for nothing, or have to overpay. Not a smart use of assets, but here we are.

You're missing the point. We'd be in this situation regardless. If we fail, it's not because we didn't use our assets wisely. We didn't. But the reason we failed is because of our inability to attract free agents.

Knowing we can't attract free agents doesn't excuse burning assets on rentals. If we knew that was the case we should have kept our assets and built for the long term, instead of trading for guys we can't keep in a market with tons of cap competing against us.

Or we should have held out until we could trade for star(s) who were under long term contract.

Like if we had traded for Otto Porter instead of Tobias I would have ZERO problems with it. Lesser trade price for a better player, locked up to a much smaller contract than Tobias is going to get in this insane summer.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

Not legitimate source.

Yea but it fits my narrative that Shake is going to be the GOAT next year.

And Colangelo used to tweet at him. That has to mean something, no?

[BullyKing]

That's only because we had a surplus of assets thanks to Santa Hinkie to begin with. Those are all gone now to pay for rentals who we either lose for nothing, or have to overpay. Not a smart use of assets, but here we are.

You're missing the point. We'd be in this situation regardless. If we fail, it's not because we didn't use our assets wisely. We didn't. But the reason we failed is because of our inability to attract free agents.

Knowing we can't attract free agents doesn't excuse burning assets on rentals. If we knew that was the case we should have kept our assets and built for the long term, instead of trading for guys we can't keep in a market with tons of cap competing against us.

Or we should have held out until we could trade for star(s) who were under long term contract.

Like if we had traded for Otto Porter instead of Tobias I would have ZERO problems with it. Lesser trade price for a better player, locked up to a much smaller contract than Tobias is going to get in this insane summer.

You're pinning way too much on the Harris trade alone. So let's say we did exactly what you wanted and did the Porter trade instead of Harris. Now Butler walks this summer and none of the best players want to sign here. So you'd have "ZERO problems" looking at a capped out roster of say:

Simmons/Cory Joseph/Shake
Redick/Shamet/Thybulle
Porter/Zhaire
Mirotic/Bolden
Embiid/Koufus

I don't know, that's not the really the outcome I wanted from the process.

[Negrodamus]

We're really lamenting over the Harris trade, however it's the Butler trade that I still don't quite understand. I know we got him for a discount, but I'm currently looking at the Rockets situation thinking they'd be committing to another fit nightmare. At no point in time did I think Butler and Simmons would be able to coexist on the court together in a way that would maximize their game.

We don't do that trade, we still have Covington which lessens the need for Harris, so likely don't do that one. Maybe we look for another player, preferably a guard, via trade, maybe not. We likely don't get as far in the playoffs, maybe Brett Brown gets fired (which could have honestly been the correct move), and we could be talking about signing D'Angelo Russell to fill out the rest of this team this offseason. Instead we're considering maxing out a guy who doesn't fit and will be 34 at the end of his massive contract and a 2nd tier star that shouldn't be maxed. It's a bit frustrating to watch, tbh.

[BullyKing]

We're really lamenting over the Harris trade, however it's the Butler trade that I still don't quite understand. I know we got him for a discount, but I'm currently looking at the Rockets situation thinking they'd be committing to another fit nightmare. At no point in time did I think Butler and Simmons would be able to coexist on the court together in a way that would maximize their game.

We don't do that trade, we still have Covington which lessens the need for Harris, so likely don't do that one. Maybe we look for another player, preferably a guard, via trade, maybe not. We likely don't get as far in the playoffs, maybe Brett Brown gets fired (which could have honestly been the correct move), and we could be talking about signing D'Angelo Russell to fill out the rest of this team this offseason. Instead we're considering maxing out a guy who doesn't fit and will be 34 at the end of his massive contract and a 2nd tier star that shouldn't be maxed. It's a bit frustrating to watch, tbh.

I think a big reason they made those trades was because they got spooked after coming up empty last offseason.

[Arsenal]

You're missing the point. We'd be in this situation regardless. If we fail, it's not because we didn't use our assets wisely. We didn't. But the reason we failed is because of our inability to attract free agents.

Knowing we can't attract free agents doesn't excuse burning assets on rentals. If we knew that was the case we should have kept our assets and built for the long term, instead of trading for guys we can't keep in a market with tons of cap competing against us.

Or we should have held out until we could trade for star(s) who were under long term contract.

Like if we had traded for Otto Porter instead of Tobias I would have ZERO problems with it. Lesser trade price for a better player, locked up to a much smaller contract than Tobias is going to get in this insane summer.

You're pinning way too much on the Harris trade alone. So let's say we did exactly what you wanted and did the Porter trade instead of Harris. Now Butler walks this summer and none of the best players want to sign here. So you'd have "ZERO problems" looking at a capped out roster of say:

Simmons/Cory Joseph/Shake
Redick/Shamet/Thybulle
Porter/Zhaire
Mirotic/Bolden
Embiid/Koufus

I don't know, that's not the really the outcome I wanted from the process.

I would have been fine with the Porter trade because we could have dumped him for pure cap if/when we needed to, and it wouldn't have cost much to get him in the first place. Whereas we burned 3 good assets for Tobias (Shamet, PHI20, MIA21), none of which would have had to go in a Porter trade.

Ideally we wouldn't have done any of these short-sighted trades. Then we'd be sitting here right now with $47M in open cap room, Covington, Saric, and Shamet still on undermarket contracts, and our PHI20 and the MIA21 picks still in our pocket.

[BullyKing]

Knowing we can't attract free agents doesn't excuse burning assets on rentals. If we knew that was the case we should have kept our assets and built for the long term, instead of trading for guys we can't keep in a market with tons of cap competing against us.

Or we should have held out until we could trade for star(s) who were under long term contract.

Like if we had traded for Otto Porter instead of Tobias I would have ZERO problems with it. Lesser trade price for a better player, locked up to a much smaller contract than Tobias is going to get in this insane summer.

You're pinning way too much on the Harris trade alone. So let's say we did exactly what you wanted and did the Porter trade instead of Harris. Now Butler walks this summer and none of the best players want to sign here. So you'd have "ZERO problems" looking at a capped out roster of say:

Simmons/Cory Joseph/Shake
Redick/Shamet/Thybulle
Porter/Zhaire
Mirotic/Bolden
Embiid/Koufus

I don't know, that's not the really the outcome I wanted from the process.

I would have been fine with the Porter trade because we could have dumped him for pure cap if/when we needed to, and it wouldn't have cost much to get him in the first place. Whereas we burned 3 good assets for Tobias (Shamet, PHI20, MIA21), none of which would have had to go in a Porter trade.

Ideally we wouldn't have done any of these short-sighted trades. Then we'd be sitting here right now with $47M in open cap room, Covington, Saric, and Shamet still on undermarket contracts, and our PHI20 and the MIA21 picks still in our pocket.

I don't know how else to get this across - the problem we're talking about is the failure to attract free agents presuming Harris and Butler walk. So that $47 million isn't getting you anything. So we'd be sitting on Embiid, Simmons, Cov and a bunch of ok assets.

[FireMorey]

Don't get the sudden dislike over Harris. Is he worth the max? No, but that's free agency. Players get overpaid, it is what it is. Our cap situation is gonna be jacked up going forward anyway, so overpaying him really isn't an issue for us. Cap flexibility is not going to be part of our future. With or without Butler and Harris. So might as well keep them.

Harris is a good player, he isn't great, but he's good and is probably the best type of player we can attract.

People around here are acting a bit too entitled and cocky lately IMO. Like a mediocre looking guy heading to a bar and going home with no one because you're trying to hit on only 10/10's because 7/10's aren't good enough for you. That's a good way to never meet someone.

The Sixers are not going to attract the elite free agents. So you better become comfortable with the 7/10's really quick, because unlike the real world where there's plenty of fish in the sea, the NBA has a limit. And when the 10/10's go elsewhere and you pass on the 7/10's because they aren't good enough for you, you're either gonna go home empty-handed entirely, or will be in panic mode and forced to settle on the player equivalent of girls who only look good when you're piss drunk.

So it's probably Harris or overpaying for mediocre bench guys who will be forced into starting roles. Good luck with that if you want to win a championship, which is all I care about. Getting to the 2nd round means nothing to me, getting to the ECF means nothing. Getting to the NBA Finals means nothing. Winning the Finals is it. I want a parade, bottom line. All this talk about "diverting resources" to guys like Brogdon or Terrence Ross or trading for Tucker from the Rockets... please. Do you want to build the all great bargain team or are you trying to win championships? Let me know how forcing role players into primary roles against elite playoff teams works out next summer, while we have Ben Simmons still afraid to shoot jumpers.

Just run it the F back and stop overthinking this, people. Who knows how many years Embiid has in those legs anyway, can't really think long-term.

[Haset603]

If we trade Jimmy to Houston it could get us some nice future assest in return. If we lost Tobias I’d try to replace him with a Marcus Morris and probably consider T Ross over JJ at this point. But my hope is we Resign Jimmy and replace the other guys with Morris and Ross so we can bolster our bench

[BullyKing]

Don't get the sudden dislike over Harris. Is he worth the max? No, but that's free agency. Players get overpaid, it is what it is. Our cap situation is gonna be jacked up going forward anyway, so overpaying him really isn't an issue for us. Cap flexibility is not going to be part of our future. With or without Butler and Harris. So might as well keep them.

Harris is a good player, he isn't great, but he's good and is probably the best type of player we can attract.

People around here are acting a bit too entitled and cocky lately IMO. Like a mediocre looking guy heading to a bar and going home with no one because you're trying to hit on only 10/10's because 7/10's aren't good enough for you. That's a good way to never meet someone.

The Sixers are not going to attract the elite free agents. So you better become comfortable with the 7/10's really quick, because unlike the real world where there's plenty of fish in the sea, the NBA has a limit. And when the 10/10's go elsewhere and you pass on the 7/10's because they aren't good enough for you, you're either gonna go home empty-handed entirely, or will be in panic mode and forced to settle on the player equivalent of girls who only look good when you're piss drunk.

So it's probably Harris or overpaying for mediocre bench guys who will be forced into starting roles. Good luck with that if you want to win a championship, which is all I care about. Getting to the 2nd round means nothing to me, getting to the ECF means nothing. Getting to the NBA Finals means nothing. Winning the Finals is it. I want a parade, bottom line. All this talk about "diverting resources" to guys like Brogdon or Terrence Ross or trading for Tucker from the Rockets... please. Do you want to build the all great bargain team or are you trying to win championships? Let me know how forcing role players into primary roles against elite playoff teams works out next summer, while we have Ben Simmons still afraid to shoot jumpers.

Just run it the F back and stop overthinking this, people. Who knows how many years Embiid has in those legs anyway, can't really think long-term.

Man, that's a post right there.

[Arsenal]

You're pinning way too much on the Harris trade alone. So let's say we did exactly what you wanted and did the Porter trade instead of Harris. Now Butler walks this summer and none of the best players want to sign here. So you'd have "ZERO problems" looking at a capped out roster of say:

Simmons/Cory Joseph/Shake
Redick/Shamet/Thybulle
Porter/Zhaire
Mirotic/Bolden
Embiid/Koufus

I don't know, that's not the really the outcome I wanted from the process.

I would have been fine with the Porter trade because we could have dumped him for pure cap if/when we needed to, and it wouldn't have cost much to get him in the first place. Whereas we burned 3 good assets for Tobias (Shamet, PHI20, MIA21), none of which would have had to go in a Porter trade.

Ideally we wouldn't have done any of these short-sighted trades. Then we'd be sitting here right now with $47M in open cap room, Covington, Saric, and Shamet still on undermarket contracts, and our PHI20 and the MIA21 picks still in our pocket.

I don't know how else to get this across - the problem we're talking about is the failure to attract free agents presuming Harris and Butler walk. So that $47 million isn't getting you anything. So we'd be sitting on Embiid, Simmons, Cov and a bunch of ok assets.

If you can't attract OR KEEP stars, then you'd be incredibly stupid to burn assets for 2 rentals because you know they're going to walk for nothing (because they want to be elsewhere).

Instead you'd keep your assets, draft wisely, build for the long term, and use the cap room to find undervalued bargains for depth.

[papajoe]

Don't get the sudden dislike over Harris. Is he worth the max? No, but that's free agency. Players get overpaid, it is what it is. Our cap situation is gonna be jacked up going forward anyway, so overpaying him really isn't an issue for us. Cap flexibility is not going to be part of our future. With or without Butler and Harris. So might as well keep them.

Harris is a good player, he isn't great, but he's good and is probably the best type of player we can attract.

People around here are acting a bit too entitled and cocky lately IMO. Like a mediocre looking guy heading to a bar and going home with no one because you're trying to hit on only 10/10's because 7/10's aren't good enough for you. That's a good way to never meet someone.

The Sixers are not going to attract the elite free agents. So you better become comfortable with the 7/10's really quick, because unlike the real world where there's plenty of fish in the sea, the NBA has a limit. And when the 10/10's go elsewhere and you pass on the 7/10's because they aren't good enough for you, you're either gonna go home empty-handed entirely, or will be in panic mode and forced to settle on the player equivalent of girls who only look good when you're piss drunk.

So it's probably Harris or overpaying for mediocre bench guys who will be forced into starting roles. Good luck with that if you want to win a championship, which is all I care about. Getting to the 2nd round means nothing to me, getting to the ECF means nothing. Getting to the NBA Finals means nothing. Winning the Finals is it. I want a parade, bottom line. All this talk about "diverting resources" to guys like Brogdon or Terrence Ross or trading for Tucker from the Rockets... please. Do you want to build the all great bargain team or are you trying to win championships? Let me know how forcing role players into primary roles against elite playoff teams works out next summer, while we have Ben Simmons still afraid to shoot jumpers.

Just run it the F back and stop overthinking this, people. Who knows how many years Embiid has in those legs anyway, can't really think long-term.

[Negrodamus]

We're really lamenting over the Harris trade, however it's the Butler trade that I still don't quite understand. I know we got him for a discount, but I'm currently looking at the Rockets situation thinking they'd be committing to another fit nightmare. At no point in time did I think Butler and Simmons would be able to coexist on the court together in a way that would maximize their game.

We don't do that trade, we still have Covington which lessens the need for Harris, so likely don't do that one. Maybe we look for another player, preferably a guard, via trade, maybe not. We likely don't get as far in the playoffs, maybe Brett Brown gets fired (which could have honestly been the correct move), and we could be talking about signing D'Angelo Russell to fill out the rest of this team this offseason. Instead we're considering maxing out a guy who doesn't fit and will be 34 at the end of his massive contract and a 2nd tier star that shouldn't be maxed. It's a bit frustrating to watch, tbh.

I think a big reason they made those trades was because they got spooked after coming up empty last offseason.

Right, and perhaps there wasn't the foresight or the production to warrant it, but we'd be looking at Russell, Brogdon, Middleton, hell, even Tobias Harris as potential max players right now to add to Simmons, Embiid, Covington. It wouldn't be the "all or nothing" for LeBron or Paul George (and we could have even thrown a hail mary to Kawhi). There are options, especially for a team that is in desperate need for a scorer from the perimeter, but we panicked and rushed it.

I completely understand why they did it, but I didn't think, nor do I think it was the right move.

[BullyKing]

I would have been fine with the Porter trade because we could have dumped him for pure cap if/when we needed to, and it wouldn't have cost much to get him in the first place. Whereas we burned 3 good assets for Tobias (Shamet, PHI20, MIA21), none of which would have had to go in a Porter trade.

Ideally we wouldn't have done any of these short-sighted trades. Then we'd be sitting here right now with $47M in open cap room, Covington, Saric, and Shamet still on undermarket contracts, and our PHI20 and the MIA21 picks still in our pocket.

I don't know how else to get this across - the problem we're talking about is the failure to attract free agents presuming Harris and Butler walk. So that $47 million isn't getting you anything. So we'd be sitting on Embiid, Simmons, Cov and a bunch of ok assets.

If you can't attract OR KEEP stars, then you'd be incredibly stupid to burn assets for 2 rentals because you know they're going to walk for nothing (because they want to be elsewhere).

Instead you'd keep your assets, draft wisely, build for the long term, and use the cap room to find undervalued bargains for depth.

Yes, I'm sure this regime would have had no issue drafting wisely and using the cap room to find undervalued bargains. And we'd be chock full of depth, which would do us no good when we only have one playoff star on the roster.

[GutUNC]

Don't get the sudden dislike over Harris. Is he worth the max? No, but that's free agency. Players get overpaid, it is what it is. Our cap situation is gonna be jacked up going forward anyway, so overpaying him really isn't an issue for us. Cap flexibility is not going to be part of our future. With or without Butler and Harris. So might as well keep them.

Harris is a good player, he isn't great, but he's good and is probably the best type of player we can attract.

People around here are acting a bit too entitled and cocky lately IMO. Like a mediocre looking guy heading to a bar and going home with no one because you're trying to hit on only 10/10's because 7/10's aren't good enough for you. That's a good way to never meet someone.

The Sixers are not going to attract the elite free agents. So you better become comfortable with the 7/10's really quick, because unlike the real world where there's plenty of fish in the sea, the NBA has a limit. And when the 10/10's go elsewhere and you pass on the 7/10's because they aren't good enough for you, you're either gonna go home empty-handed entirely, or will be in panic mode and forced to settle on the player equivalent of girls who only look good when you're piss drunk.

So it's probably Harris or overpaying for mediocre bench guys who will be forced into starting roles. Good luck with that if you want to win a championship, which is all I care about. Getting to the 2nd round means nothing to me, getting to the ECF means nothing. Getting to the NBA Finals means nothing. Winning the Finals is it. I want a parade, bottom line. All this talk about "diverting resources" to guys like Brogdon or Terrence Ross or trading for Tucker from the Rockets... please. Do you want to build the all great bargain team or are you trying to win championships? Let me know how forcing role players into primary roles against elite playoff teams works out next summer, while we have Ben Simmons still afraid to shoot jumpers.

Just run it the F back and stop overthinking this, people. Who knows how many years Embiid has in those legs anyway, can't really think long-term.

Man, that's a post right there.

No doubt.

If anyone figures out how to high five a post, let me know.

[freshie2]

I am all in to bring back Butler and Harris, but if they S and T occurs for Gordon, Capela and a 1st I don't think it is doomsday. Capela fills the depth up front, Gordon and Harris fill needs, and you still are looking at filling in some gaps for bench PG and Wing players as you would have been otherwise. Those next pieces are tricky and critical, but they are tricky and critical either way...anxious to see this play out.