Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[NJ SixerFan]

I believe his academic issue was he missed a tutoring session. Thats not something to really worry about when it comes to professionalism

I didn't know exactly what the issue was but even still they felt strongly enough for him to lose court time. And while it may be small not being somewhere you are supposed to be isn't something you can just ignore. Whats next practice, shoot around, team meetings?

He didnt lose court time though. He basically just took his first break at a different time. He averages 35 minutes a game and in that game he played 36. And I think missing one tutoring sessions is very different than missing practice or a shoot around or something. Its not even close

Or its him fed up with his situation with the losing where hes mentally checking out and counting down the days until the NBA draft. He sure seems disinterested on the court especially defensively. Does that character trait bode well for a team likely to struggle like the sixers? You're right it prolly is much to do about nothing but he's got to understand that everything he does is going to be held against him.

[Agnostifarian]

I didn't know exactly what the issue was but even still they felt strongly enough for him to lose court time. And while it may be small not being somewhere you are supposed to be isn't something you can just ignore. Whats next practice, shoot around, team meetings?

He didnt lose court time though. He basically just took his first break at a different time. He averages 35 minutes a game and in that game he played 36. And I think missing one tutoring sessions is very different than missing practice or a shoot around or something. Its not even close

Or its him fed up with his situation with the losing where hes mentally checking out and counting down the days until the NBA draft. He sure seems disinterested on the court especially defensively. Does that character trait bode well for a team likely to struggle like the sixers? You're right it prolly is much to do about nothing but he's got to understand that everything he does is going to be held against him.

There are good ways and bad ways to deal with unfortunate circumstances and that is where character is revealed. Take Jahlil, for instance. Here are two recent examples of him acting professionally. First, in the aftermath of trade rumors involving him last week, he said, "...we've talked and I'm part of this team. We're all good." I'm paraphrasing. Then, last night against ORL when he was on the bench at the end of the game when we were down by 10. He wasn't pouting. He looked pretty engaged. It was one of the few good things I took from that **** performance by our team. OK4 is seven months older than Simmons.

Simmons definitely has question marks.

[Ericb5]

Ive said it all year long. I know Philly fans dont want to hear it, but if you can get a terrible team to trade you a non protected 1st round pick for the 17 draft and somthing else, Id take that and run. I have said all year long I dont think Simmons or Ingram would go top 3 in the 17 draft, when they were seniors in high school they werent even the best high school players, multiple juniors were superior players an them. IF you can trade a top 3 pick this year for a top 3 pick next year that would be a major win

Even if it were possible to guarantee you could get a top 3 pick next year AND you are right about the relative value of the picks, the public relations are impossible to overcome.

We definitely still want the first pick and we want the LAL pick to convey at #4 this year. This rebuild is moving on, IMO.

Oh I agree 100%. It would never happen especially with how much hype surrounds Simmons. Im just saying in a perfect world.
I just think this draft class is really weak and if you dont get a top 2 pick, i dont see anyone else being able to really turn the tables for a franchise.

Agreed for sure that this is a week class overall.

There are the top 2 guys, and then a lot of question marks. I would say that any of the guys in the 3-8 range are pretty interchangeable. Bender may be a cut above, but he is so young, and hardly plays, and then has a questionable contract situation.


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[BobThornton]

Simmons very much has the 'it' factor and probably should have chosen a better basketball factory school than LSU to play his single year at. I think the LSU experience probably sets his development back just a little, but the guy's strengths are incredible to watch and his weaknesses you can work around. I like Ingram too, but his three point shot and foul shooting are not what they need for him to be the player we all want him to be. Definitely more projection is needed with Ingram who is younger and more physically immature. I'd like to get one of those two in any case, because the alternatives are not all that appealing.

Ingram is shooting 41% from 3 for the year, on 5.3 attempts per game. How is that an issue?

[Agnostifarian]

Simmons very much has the 'it' factor and probably should have chosen a better basketball factory school than LSU to play his single year at. I think the LSU experience probably sets his development back just a little, but the guy's strengths are incredible to watch and his weaknesses you can work around. I like Ingram too, but his three point shot and foul shooting are not what they need for him to be the player we all want him to be. Definitely more projection is needed with Ingram who is younger and more physically immature. I'd like to get one of those two in any case, because the alternatives are not all that appealing.

Ingram is shooting 41% from 3 for the year, on 5.3 attempts per game. How is that an issue?

Not to pile on but how do you define the "It" factor and when has Simmons demonstrated "It?"

I would define the "It" factor as an ability and willingness to take over a game when it is on the line and deliver a win.

Quote from the link below describing Ingram's role in Duke's underdog victory over #7 ranked Virginia 11 days ago:

"... Ingram single-handedly brought Duke back from an 11-point deficit. He finished one point shy of his season high and was the only Blue Devil to score during a 5 1/2-minute span that bridged the halves, reeling off 18 consecutive points for his team and putting Duke up 41-40 with a jumper with 16 1/2 minutes left. Bennett says the problems he created showed up on the boards, where Duke outrebounded the Cavaliers 24-10 in the second half. "We just couldn't match up with Ingram," Bennett said...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU9UBmYhwfE

[Agnostifarian]

Kobblehead: C'Mon Son!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhdoz9LVYjM&ebc=ANyPxKpej5i7l9A2i-gpvqDKlLBXHP7mOhxa1X_ex3WdwgXdNU34gkleaNrP0anbeR45MVaaWu4bVQr0hJOxZPUN1f9m_oMIzw

[NJ SixerFan]

I'm officially on the Ingram side of this debate. Sixers need an elite wing scorer in the worst way and with his length could be a problem on the defensive end. Stauskas, shooter who can't shoot most nights, no defense, occasionally sets others up with good looks. Canaan, streaky shooter, to small, no defense, no handle, no set up ability. HT, hits majority of his shots in games were already out of, can't dribble,can't defend. And none of them get to the line.

[Ericb5]

I'm officially on the Ingram side of this debate. Sixers need an elite wing scorer in the worst way and with his length could be a problem on the defensive end. Stauskas, shooter who can't shoot most nights, no defense, occasionally sets others up with good looks. Canaan, streaky shooter, to small, no defense, no handle, no set up ability. HT, hits majority of his shots in games were already out of, can't dribble,can't defend. And none of them get to the line.

I think that it is real easy to get intoxicated by a very talented kid who would fit our team like a glove. The problem is that Simmons has more talent, and that is all that really matters.

Remember the Iverson Marbury debate when he was drafted. A LOT of people wanted to take Marbury because he was surely the more pure point guard, and it was true. He was a more pure point guard.

However, Iverson had more talent, and talent trumps fit all day long, and ESPECIALLY when drafting in the top 5.

Simmons is a guy that you throw fit out of the window for. We will figure it out if it means trading Okafor, Noel, AND Saric to do it.

No shortcuts!


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[NJ SixerFan]

I'm officially on the Ingram side of this debate. Sixers need an elite wing scorer in the worst way and with his length could be a problem on the defensive end. Stauskas, shooter who can't shoot most nights, no defense, occasionally sets others up with good looks. Canaan, streaky shooter, to small, no defense, no handle, no set up ability. HT, hits majority of his shots in games were already out of, can't dribble,can't defend. And none of them get to the line.

I think that it is real easy to get intoxicated by a very talented kid who would fit our team like a glove. The problem is that Simmons has more talent, and that is all that really matters.

Remember the Iverson Marbury debate when he was drafted. A LOT of people wanted to take Marbury because he was surely the more pure point guard, and it was true. He was a more pure point guard.

However, Iverson had more talent, and talent trumps fit all day long, and ESPECIALLY when drafting in the top 5.

Simmons is a guy that you throw fit out of the window for. We will figure it out if it means trading Okafor, Noel, AND Saric to do it.

No shortcuts!


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But is he more talented? Does what he does well in college translate better then Ingram. I'm not so sure anymore. I'm starting to worry Simmons success is purely based on college not having enough players that can guard him. NBA defenders will sag off him further clogging the lane. This dude cannot shoot.

[freshie2]

Hate the Iverson comparison, but agree that Simmons is the top pick. Ingram is a nice consolation prize, but unless Simmons blows the interviews he is a no brainer.

[76ciology]

My gut feel tells me that Lakers will pick Ingram over Simmons. They'd build around Ingram,Russell&Randle core. Add a 3&D and a rim protector then they're all set.

[BobThornton]

I'm officially on the Ingram side of this debate. Sixers need an elite wing scorer in the worst way and with his length could be a problem on the defensive end. Stauskas, shooter who can't shoot most nights, no defense, occasionally sets others up with good looks. Canaan, streaky shooter, to small, no defense, no handle, no set up ability. HT, hits majority of his shots in games were already out of, can't dribble,can't defend. And none of them get to the line.

I think that it is real easy to get intoxicated by a very talented kid who would fit our team like a glove. The problem is that Simmons has more talent, and that is all that really matters.

Remember the Iverson Marbury debate when he was drafted. A LOT of people wanted to take Marbury because he was surely the more pure point guard, and it was true. He was a more pure point guard.

However, Iverson had more talent, and talent trumps fit all day long, and ESPECIALLY when drafting in the top 5.

Simmons is a guy that you throw fit out of the window for. We will figure it out if it means trading Okafor, Noel, AND Saric to do it.

No shortcuts!


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But is he more talented? Does what he does well in college translate better then Ingram. I'm not so sure anymore. I'm starting to worry Simmons success is purely based on college not having enough players that can guard him. NBA defenders will sag off him further clogging the lane. This dude cannot shoot.

Isn't Simmons also 15 months older than Ingram? Yeah, not sure you can say Simmons is "more talented".

You know, the other thing is I've listened to Sixers fans and writers kill Okafor all year for his defense. You guys watching Simmons play "defense"?

[bedjawII]

Does Simmons actually fit the Sixers better? GSW uses spacing, pace and ball movement to get iso and mismatches in the perimeter. However it would be insane for the Sixers to think the can replicate GSW. However you use pace, spacing and ball movement to create the same mismatches in the post. If Jo, Jah and Simmons extend their range to the 3 or line they'd be an absolute night mate to defend. No team would be equipped to handle that.

[Ericb5]

Does Simmons actually fit the Sixers better? GSW uses spacing, pace and ball movement to get iso and mismatches in the perimeter. However it would be insane for the Sixers to think the can replicate GSW. However you use pace, spacing and ball movement to create the same mismatches in the post. If Jo, Jah and Simmons extend their range to the 3 or line they'd be an absolute night mate to defend. No team would be equipped to handle that.

The point is that fit should only be considered within the context of the draft tiers. Unless you think that Ingram and Simmons are in the same tier talent wise then you can't consider fit.

I know that some people DO think that they are in the same tier, but most people, including me, don't. I think that Simmons is definitely in a class all by himself.


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[joyeuxnoel]

My one question for simmons is can he defend the 3, let alone the 4? His perimeter defense is weak, while ingram's D is strong

im not really liking ingram or simmons, but id be down to draft simmons then trade him for ingram and some pieces (ingram + russell) or (ingram + booker)

[Agnostifarian]

My one question for simmons is can he defend the 3, let alone the 4? His perimeter defense is weak, while ingram's D is strong

im not really liking ingram or simmons, but id be down to draft simmons then trade him for ingram and some pieces (ingram + russell) or (ingram + booker)

This is my hope.

[the_process]

Put me down for Ingram. I'm actually hoping to get the #2 pick behind a team that's not the Lakers or the Celtics who really needs Simmons.

EDIT: Trading down from #1 to #2 and ending up with Ingram is also a good outcome.

[snoopdogg88]

it still boggles my mind how there are still so many people "lukewarm" on Ben Simmons
this isn't like Hasheem Thabeet or Joel Embiid where there is a huge unknown and bust factor that potentially lingers and you knew it from day one. He's one of the most highly rated prospects since LeBron and Anthony Davis for a reason. The freaking out over his jumpshot is so overblown it makes my head hurt.
You have a guaranteed all star staring you in the face, and some of you would pass on him?

I like Ingram and would be happy with him, but he's just not on the level of overall prospect as Simmons.

[Ericb5]

it still boggles my mind how there are still so many people "lukewarm" on Ben Simmons
this isn't like Hasheem Thabeet or Joel Embiid where there is a huge unknown and bust factor that potentially lingers and you knew it from day one. He's one of the most highly rated prospects since LeBron and Anthony Davis for a reason. The freaking out over his jumpshot is so overblown it makes my head hurt.
You have a guaranteed all star staring you in the face, and some of you would pass on him?

I like Ingram and would be happy with him, but he's just not on the level of overall prospect as Simmons.

Agreed.

After watching Simmons for 5 minutes I got an overwhelming feeling that he was just a superstar.

Being a superstar is not necessarily just having an accumulation of skills. There is the intangible IT factor that gets talked about a lot. He just has it. He was born with it.

He can learn to shoot. Even if he never gets better than a mediocre jump shot, I think he can still be an all-NBA player. If he DOES get a better than average jumper then he can win mvp's and lead a team to a title.

I personally like him more than I liked Anthony Davis as a college player. Davis surprised me by becoming a great offensive player. I knew he was a defensive stud, but I didn't expect him to explode on the league the way he did. With Simmons I DO expect him to explode on the league.





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[Agnostifarian]

And DX moves Brandon Ingram to #1 -- Mocks him to PHI

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/