Noel's Trade Value is at its Highest Now

[spikeslovechild]

Keep Noel....trade Okafor for Jamal Murray.....Nuggets have plenty of Guards

They also have plenty of big men. They actually don't have plenty of guards. I actually wouldn't mind the deal but I doubt Denver makes the offer.

As far as keeping Noel and moving Okafor. Why does it matter? Move both of them keep one of them. They are both backups at this point. We need to get out of that binrary thought process. If the offers are there move Noel. If the offers aren't there keep him and try to sign him to a decent deal (not max something around Clarkson money) as a RFA. If he gets too big of an offer (max money) let him walk.

If the offers are there move Okafor. If not keep him. We own his ass for three more years there is no reason to sell him for pennies on the dollar.

That's a pipedream.

Clarkson is a bench rotational player and was signed as a RFA who had only completed 2 seasons in the league which actually put a strict ceiling on what he could be paid on his second contract.

Noel is going to make somewhere between $16 and $25M/year because he plays at the level of a top 10 Center and is only 22 years old. I would pay him that amount because he is worth it. As his offensive game grows and his defensive impact continues to improve with his basketball experience he will become a top 30 player in the league soon.

He has played to a level of a top ten center this year. The other 4330 minutes he's basically played to the level of an average starting center or slightly above average starting center depending on the metric. So what do you believe do you believe his entire 133 games body of work or the relatively small 6 games worth of starting minutes this season.

I'm sorry but I need to see more before I'm all of sudden convinced he's turned the corner and willing to commit 4 years of max money to him. I know some team may offer him that but that doesn't mean we should. Especially when we don't have to. We have Embiid. We don't need to take huge risks. My preference is to move him but I'm open to the possibility of keeping him if it makes sense that is probably a longshot agreed which again is why my preference is to move him.

My preference is at this point to move Okafor at this point as well. Not because I don't think he can be an effective player. We saw last year he can. It's because the style of play we want is not condusive to his talent don't get me wrong I'm not excusing his performance either but even if he was playing well his effect would be limited so move him. The problem is once again he is not playing well. We won't get much. Some of you don't care get him off the team. Accept an offer of Rozier. Package him with Roco to get an Ok Crowder. I'm sorry but I want more. I'm willing to accept less then the offer last year of BKN pick but thats a bridge too far.

The ideal player would be someone like WCS who can come in and backup Embiid makes a reasonable salary for the next three years and won't complain. Then move Okafor and Noel for perimeter help. That's probably a pipedream too.

[eskimo]

I'm pretty sure WCS doesn't even play anymore with the Kings.

[Foshan]

If we could sell high on Noel right now I probably would. I would also look to move Jah now (if someone offered something like a good) or hold him till the draft and hope to use him to move one of our picks up.

I really like Holmes, and he seemd to have some good chemestry with Simmons in summer league (caught and dunked his passes), yeah yeah SL... just saying i really like the kid.

but yeah, I wouldn't give either away at this point.

[76ciology]

If Noel is OK being paid below the max. I'm OK with him. If he wants to start, then start him for the sake of starting like Tiago Splitter with the Spurs. But I don't see Okafor nor Noel being part of our core, ever.

The system and the roster is really built around Noel. Defensively, everyone is a poor defender aside from RoCo and Biid. They need Noel to have their back on D. Offensively, Noel acts as a magnet sucking the help defense when he rolls to the rim that gets our shooters open looks.

[76ciology]

If we could sell high on Noel right now I probably would. I would also look to move Jah now (if someone offered something like a good) or hold him till the draft and hope to use him to move one of our picks up.

I really like Holmes, and he seemd to have some good chemestry with Simmons in summer league (caught and dunked his passes), yeah yeah SL... just saying i really like the kid.

but yeah, I wouldn't give either away at this point.

I'd trade both of them. I think best return is for future picks. I still think Ingram is attainable but everyone has their own different values on Ingram.

In terms of value, I see Noel and Okafor's value similar to what Favors and Kanter's value were, respectively, when Jazz had a log jam. I think you can get more with Noel unless Jah breaks out of the gate after his 6 game DNPs.

[hookshot199]

If we could sell high on Noel right now I probably would. I would also look to move Jah now (if someone offered something like a good) or hold him till the draft and hope to use him to move one of our picks up.

I really like Holmes, and he seemd to have some good chemestry with Simmons in summer league (caught and dunked his passes), yeah yeah SL... just saying i really like the kid.

but yeah, I wouldn't give either away at this point.

The question is 'what is selling Noel 'high' for? I suspect that many of younger posters aren't aware of the similarities between Noel and a 20-year-old Marcus Camby, even a 20-year-old Yoakim Noah, in terms being of an active defensive-glue guy.

Noel's freshman defensive stats (he went down after 24 games) exceed both Camby and Noah. They're equivalent to Anthony-Towns and slightly below Anthony Davis, currently the two gold standards for the position.

Noel is only 22. He will probably never be as good as Anthony-Towns or Davis because they're better shooters, but his first two years in the pros put him on a trajectory to have a career as good as Camby and Noah. And he comes from the same sort of pedigree. Defensive player of the year in the SEC as a freshman. More rebounds and blocked shots than Camby or Noah in their junior years.

Of course we match if somebody makes him an offer. But we should offer him $18 mil or $20 mil as a gesture of good faith, then go up as needed. We won't get a better pick in the draft if we trade him. It just ain't going to happen. He was a projected number one before he was injured. He's done nothing to change that evaluation.

The other thing is that there are multiple teams that need him but only a handful who can offer him a payday. The Lakers, because of the Mozgov and Deng signings, only have around $25 mil to play with in June. Boston needs him but will be hard-pressed to offer him a max contract if they're going to make a run for Hayward and re-sign Bradley and IT.

Brooklyn and Dallas could make a run. Houston, sitting at $88 mil in June, probably can't do it. There are only three or four other teams.

We've got an elite defensive big who can play two positions on defense. If Brown can't make it work, Brown should be the one to go.

And if we need to move him three or four years from now - because we have zero cap constraints for the next two years - then do it then.

[Arsenal]

I'd offer 5 yrs/$90M and go up to 5 yrs/$100M to Noel this summer. I think he'll probably take it. Then in the future if we need to move him we can.

[hookshot199]

I'd offer 5 yrs/$90M and go up to 5 yrs/$100M to Noel this summer. I think he'll probably take it. Then in the future if we need to move him we can.

If they can and it doesn't affect the 'super max' designees in the new CBA, one of which will surely be Embiid, I see no reason why not. Simmons and Saric, possibly even Luwawu depending on his development, will become unrestricted free agents in 2020, I believe. That's four years out.

Fortunately or unfortunately (I think fortunately), the new rules make it virtually impossible to sign somebody else's star.

[rzzzzz]

We've got an elite defensive big who can play two positions on defense.

can he? i mean, you would think so. but he sure didn't take to the 4, either his rookie season or the beginning of last year. i'm still waiting for him to play it this year, matched up with Joel. until that actually happens, i can't shake the nagging suspicion that they're showcasing him at center for an upcoming deal.

(the other concern i have is his tendency to sneak around the guy he's defending, looking for the steal, which sometimes results in a the guy bolting straight for the basket, unimpeded. that won't require a hard adjustment, and his team mates will learn to anticipate it if they need to rotate. still...)

but, yeah, i still buy Joel's (and Sam's) vision of the giant frontline playing havoc.

[hookshot199]

We've got an elite defensive big who can play two positions on defense.

can he? i mean, you would think so. but he sure didn't take to the 4, either his rookie season or the beginning of last year. i'm still waiting for him to play it this year, matched up with Joel. until that actually happens, i can't shake the nagging suspicion that they're showcasing him at center for an upcoming deal.

(the other concern i have is his tendency to sneak around the guy he's defending, looking for the steal, which sometimes results in a the guy bolting straight for the basket, unimpeded. that won't require a hard adjustment, and his team mates will learn to anticipate it if they need to rotate. still...)

but, yeah, i still buy Joel's (and Sam's) vision of the giant frontline playing havoc.

I believe he can. But you're right. Brown should play them together. But he's not going to in my opinion. We can all speculate why he won't, but the reality is that he would have railroaded Noel out of town had Embiid not interceded.

Re showcasing him to trade him: Until they know what Simmons can do on defense and how Noel meshes with Embiid, it would be management malpractice to trade him. Especially now that they've won five of six games.

But anything is possible. You're right.

[JojoSlimbiid]

A team is going to get a legitimate wakeup call if they make Nerlens their starting center. He has so many bad habits on the court that will expose him and his team tremendously.

[spikeslovechild]

I'd offer 5 yrs/$90M and go up to 5 yrs/$100M to Noel this summer. I think he'll probably take it. Then in the future if we need to move him we can.

That's crazy money. He's a backup. He'll be playing 15 minutes a game. Maybe 65/5 max which is 13 million a year and I'd perfer a deal closer to backup money in the 10 million range.

If he doesn't like the offer then we need to find someone else for the role.

[spikeslovechild]

A team is going to get a legitimate wakeup call if they make Nerlens their starting center. He has so many bad habits on the court that will expose him and his team tremendously.

Look it Noel does a bunch of things well and I never had a problem signing him to an extension for backup money but the idea that he went from a .80 WS/48 player to a .300 WS/48 player is just not realistic. Noel supporters were trying to browbeat people into convincing them Noel was something he's not.

Sort of like the Lakers were with Randle in the season. Players get hot. Noel is playing well right now if we are going to move him and I believe we should the time is nigh for doing so.

[NatiboyB]

So this thread was spot on. Nerlens trade value is nearly the highest it has been in a while. But at this point I don't want to move him at all. With the amount of cap space we have I'd rather just pay Nerlens what his market value is determined to be and revisit trading him later down the line. I'd rather have 40+ minutes of high level rim protection and interior defense a night.

But with this being said Jahlil may need to just be moved point blank. But would it really be that negative if we were to just hang on to him until around draft time? This upcoming draft is very weak in regards to Bigs so I could see a team in need of a big maybe willing to deal an established player or a late lottery pick for him.

[Gsraider]

That's crazy money. He's a backup. He'll be playing 15 minutes a game. Maybe 65/5 max which is 13 million a year and I'd perfer a deal closer to backup money in the 10 million range.

If he doesn't like the offer then we need to find someone else for the role.

I would have possibly agreed with that until this past FA off-season. However, if T. Mosgov can get a $16 million per year contract, M. Plumlee can get $12.5 million per year, A. Crabbe can get $18.5 million per year, and E. Turner can get $16.4 million per year (and there are many more), then Noel can clearly get a contract in that range, if not more so. All of those guys are role players at best, many of which are backups. Noel can start on many teams in this league and can be an elite rim protector in general. Are those other guys elite in any area at all? Sadly, this is what happened with the new TV contract and there is just too much money to spend, but I will be absolutely floored if Noel's next contract is not in this ballpark.

[spikeslovechild]

That's crazy money. He's a backup. He'll be playing 15 minutes a game. Maybe 65/5 max which is 13 million a year and I'd perfer a deal closer to backup money in the 10 million range.

If he doesn't like the offer then we need to find someone else for the role.

I would have possibly agreed with that until this past FA off-season. However, if T. Mosgov can get a $16 million per year contract, M. Plumlee can get $12.5 million per year, A. Crabbe can get $18.5 million per year, and E. Turner can get $16.4 million per year (and there are many more), then Noel can clearly get a contract in that range, if not more so. All of those guys are role players at best, many of which are backups. Noel can start on many teams in this league and can be an elite rim protector in general. Are those other guys elite in any area at all? Sadly, this is what happened with the new TV contract and there is just too much money to spend, but I will be absolutely floored if Noel's next contract is not in this ballpark.

The problem with that logic is the Mosgov contract was stupid and clearly a mistake. Using that as a barometer and moving beyond that is not how to build a team. Nor is reacting to stupid money being thrown around by other GM's.

[XDevilBoiX]

A team is going to get a legitimate wakeup call if they make Nerlens their starting center. He has so many bad habits on the court that will expose him and his team tremendously.

You can just about say that for any player that isn't a star and also some star too. Melo doesn't play d, allowed TJ to get off a winning shot.

[Gsraider]

That's crazy money. He's a backup. He'll be playing 15 minutes a game. Maybe 65/5 max which is 13 million a year and I'd perfer a deal closer to backup money in the 10 million range.

If he doesn't like the offer then we need to find someone else for the role.

I would have possibly agreed with that until this past FA off-season. However, if T. Mosgov can get a $16 million per year contract, M. Plumlee can get $12.5 million per year, A. Crabbe can get $18.5 million per year, and E. Turner can get $16.4 million per year (and there are many more), then Noel can clearly get a contract in that range, if not more so. All of those guys are role players at best, many of which are backups. Noel can start on many teams in this league and can be an elite rim protector in general. Are those other guys elite in any area at all? Sadly, this is what happened with the new TV contract and there is just too much money to spend, but I will be absolutely floored if Noel's next contract is not in this ballpark.

The problem with that logic is the Mosgov contract was stupid and clearly a mistake. Using that as a barometer and moving beyond that is not how to build a team. Nor is reacting to stupid money being thrown around by other GM's.

And the problem with your logic is that you simply looked at the first one, where I listed multiple contracts because that is the new norm when guys reach FA. I could have added K. Bazemore, S. Hill, J. Noah, H. Barnes, T. Johnson and B. Biyombo too. The fact is, if you are a big man that has any kind of skill, you're going to get paid. If you are a big man that is excellent in one facet, you are really going to get paid (see Biyombo, Bismack). I would tend to agree with you in that I'm glad BC steered clear of this, but if you think Noel isn't going to get a contract in this range, I think you're deluding yourself. Whether Philly will pay that type of money is up to BC, but I would be floored if multiple other teams won't. The other option to spending that type of money is a sign and trade to avoid losing him for nothing, but if they don't trade him before FA or aren't willing to pay him his market value, that is exactly what will happen.

[hookshot199]

That's crazy money. He's a backup. He'll be playing 15 minutes a game. Maybe 65/5 max which is 13 million a year and I'd perfer a deal closer to backup money in the 10 million range.

If he doesn't like the offer then we need to find someone else for the role.

I would have possibly agreed with that until this past FA off-season. However, if T. Mosgov can get a $16 million per year contract, M. Plumlee can get $12.5 million per year, A. Crabbe can get $18.5 million per year, and E. Turner can get $16.4 million per year (and there are many more), then Noel can clearly get a contract in that range, if not more so. All of those guys are role players at best, many of which are backups. Noel can start on many teams in this league and can be an elite rim protector in general. Are those other guys elite in any area at all? Sadly, this is what happened with the new TV contract and there is just too much money to spend, but I will be absolutely floored if Noel's next contract is not in this ballpark.

The problem with that logic is the Mosgov contract was stupid and clearly a mistake. Using that as a barometer and moving beyond that is not how to build a team. Nor is reacting to stupid money being thrown around by other GM's.

Then I guess 80% of them were mistakes. Turner, Mozgov, Deng, Crabbe, Horford, Noah, CJ. It's the new economics. With Noel, you're getting an elite defensive big who's young. If circumstances change in the next couple of years, you'll be able to move him. Doing so now with ZERO CAP PRESSURE and an incompetent coach is stupid.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/6/30/12052290/nba-free-agent-signings-tracker-2016-rumors

[Kobblehead]

Just ask for a package of picks, at this point. No good young players are getting moved for Noel. We don't want an aging talent on a big deal, either.