Mik317 wrote:we have barely beaten bad teams during this "run".
its great that Ben is playing well...but this is nothing to decide the future of the franchise over. Especially since Ben has gone ghost in the closing minutes of most of these games and we were bailed out by Korkmaz of all people.
and again a mere week ago, it was trade Ben for scraps season when we were losing to good teams. Yall can't flip flop so easily
These guys aren't flip floppers though. They are either Ben stans who only come out when Ben is having a good game or Embiid haters so their praising Ben as the next coming to diminish how much of a generational talent Embiid is. It's pretty sad
Yes, while Embiid has problems with health and fitness he can and has dominated good teams/led the Sixers to wins over such teams, while Ben still can’t shoot. He might well do better with players around him, particularly shooters, with whom he fitted better, but getting rid of Embiid to build around Ben while he continues to be unable to shoot is a ridiculous notion.
If they can get to the play-offs with a fit Embiid they can still win the title this year imo, the current injury should have no sequelae and nor is it related to any underlying health issues he may have. The facial fracture and this injury are just bad luck, to which he unfortunately seems prone. I hope he can work on losing some weight while he is off.
Trade Jo? Nah, ya'll crazy. I'm not willing to give up on either. This "run" as great as Ben has been tells me two things. 1) We have two legitimate stars. 2) They're at their best when they don't play together in this scheme.
So either they need their minutes further divided or they need a new scheme. I think it might actually be both, but we need a PG who can operate in the halfcourt. Let Ben be the nominal PG to start the game and when 'Biid sits. When Biid is playing we need a PnR PG. When they all play, park Biid near the basket and let Ben be the roll man unless he's bringing the ball up on a fastbreak.
Mik317 wrote:we have barely beaten bad teams during this "run".
its great that Ben is playing well...but this is nothing to decide the future of the franchise over. Especially since Ben has gone ghost in the closing minutes of most of these games and we were bailed out by Korkmaz of all people.
and again a mere week ago, it was trade Ben for scraps season when we were losing to good teams. Yall can't flip flop so easily
I think it's a bit unfair to say he has disappeared in closing minutes. Dude has made some clutch plays down the stretch all year on the defensive end. He's just not a half court offensive threat.
But yeah, agree with the underlying point that all the overreactions are obnoxious. The Ben haters and Ben stans are both pretty annoying.
Ben has been great lately and hopes he keeps it up for the rest of the year. I still have my doubts tho as he needs to prove he is capable of bringing it on a nightly basis.
As I’ve said before, this seems to be mostly coaching. I wanted to bring in a new coach to see him work Ben and Embiid into a offense that works before trading Ben.
Lol on how guys swing on who is the best player on this team when they go on a run. We already know who is the best player on this team.
MambaJuice wrote:Trade Jo? Nah, ya'll crazy. I'm not willing to give up on either. This "run" as great as Ben has been tells me two things. 1) We have two legitimate stars. 2) They're at their best when they don't play together in this scheme.
So either they need their minutes further divided or they need a new scheme. I think it might actually be both, but we need a PG who can operate in the halfcourt. Let Ben be the nominal PG to start the game and when 'Biid sits. When Biid is playing we need a PnR PG. When they all play, park Biid near the basket and let Ben be the roll man unless he's bringing the ball up on a fastbreak.
Like the clippers with blake and deandre. Except Ben can bring the ball up , playmake and defend. And Embiid can actually score the ball from anywhere on the floor. We need that PG and shooter to make it happen.
He’s an elephant using his ears to fly. This is not natural for him. The key is to sustain this momentum and don’t let it stop or else it may take some time to see him fly again. Maybe even not again this season
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
MambaJuice wrote:Trade Jo? Nah, ya'll crazy. I'm not willing to give up on either. This "run" as great as Ben has been tells me two things. 1) We have two legitimate stars. 2) They're at their best when they don't play together in this scheme.
So either they need their minutes further divided or they need a new scheme. I think it might actually be both, but we need a PG who can operate in the halfcourt. Let Ben be the nominal PG to start the game and when 'Biid sits. When Biid is playing we need a PnR PG. When they all play, park Biid near the basket and let Ben be the roll man unless he's bringing the ball up on a fastbreak.
There is no scheme that's going to make them work. It's true that you can make them a better fit with another scheme but in the end you can't be a Champioship team if both Stars aren't a natural fit together.
That's why i would trade Ben while his trade value is high. Another couple of seasons showing no improvement in his shooting is going to really lower his trade value. Also we can't keep wasting Embiid health and prime years.
There is no scheme that's going to make them work. It's true that you can make them a better fit with another scheme but in the end you can't be a Champioship team if both Stars aren't a natural fit together.
That's why i would trade Ben while his trade value is high. Another couple of seasons showing no improvement in his shooting is going to really lower his trade value. Also we can't keep wasting Embiid health and prime years.
I disagree. I think it's more a question of surrounding them with the right players i.e. a legitimate PG who can set them both up and having them play to their strengths when they're in the game together and when their time is split. It's only been two and a half years. The first year, they weren't supposed to be that good. The second, they took the eventual champs to the last second of a game 7. There should be no rush to separate players that are 23 and 25. Their prime years are still ahead.
MambaJuice wrote:Trade Jo? Nah, ya'll crazy. I'm not willing to give up on either. This "run" as great as Ben has been tells me two things. 1) We have two legitimate stars. 2) They're at their best when they don't play together in this scheme.
So either they need their minutes further divided or they need a new scheme. I think it might actually be both, but we need a PG who can operate in the halfcourt. Let Ben be the nominal PG to start the game and when 'Biid sits. When Biid is playing we need a PnR PG. When they all play, park Biid near the basket and let Ben be the roll man unless he's bringing the ball up on a fastbreak.
There is no scheme that's going to make them work. It's true that you can make them a better fit with another scheme but in the end you can't be a Champioship team if both Stars aren't a natural fit together.
That's why i would trade Ben while his trade value is high. Another couple of seasons showing no improvement in his shooting is going to really lower his trade value. Also we can't keep wasting Embiid health and prime years.
Were Magic and Kareem a natural fit?
Beyond Ben not yet being willing/able to space for Jo in the post, I think them not fitting is a bit overblown. They don't compliment one another in terms of playing off of one another that well, but I don't see why Ben couldn't do what he's doing now with Jo on the floor, and Jo has always seemed to manage to do his thing with pretty much anyone out there.
Let Ben run, and when you can't get early offense, feed the monster in the half court. Showtime.
Newsflash guys, the game is played on both sides of the court. For whatever fit issues Simmons + Embiid have on offense, they are likely to be the MOST DOMINANT defensive duo in the NBA going forward.
Mik317 wrote:trade this trade that has been the exact reason this team is in this spot in the first place.
some times the best move is continuity. Both guys have had like 4-5 different set ups in 2 years....
I was thinking about this in the mix of all the pro guys. As much as the pro sixers want better fitting pieces around are two cornerstones , it means its another roster they have to get used too. Will they get to the breaking point of changing rosters?
We never should have started with the myopic series of trades we made last season. We be in far better shape with RoCo, Dario, Shamet, Fultz, whatever the $42M in cap space would have bought last summer, and all of our assets still in our pocket.
Roco and Dario will be nowhere near as good as Tobi and Horford, ever.
Roco and Dario were traded when their value was the most highest. Noway you can trade 2 role players for a top tier star player in Butler. While Josh Richardson was a great consolation price for Jimmy.
$42M isn’t that valuable when top FAs just uses our capspace as leverage to get them to play for Miami, LA and New York.
Rush the process because the assets from Noel, Okafor, Roco, Dario to the kings pick to the cap space weren’t really that valuable. So we need to dispose them before the kings pick becomes Romeo Langford. Before Noel becomes “No way I’m accepting $40M”. And etc..
For all the complains about the Fultz draft day trade... it will be a matter of time before Fultz will be better than Rudy Gay 2.0. While the value of the Kings pick when it was traded was way higher than what it’s realized value was.
We could have Jimmy and Fultz. But both are bad fit for Ben, given you can’t play less than 4 out on offense in today’s NBA.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Arsenal wrote:We never should have started with the myopic series of trades we made last season. We be in far better shape with RoCo, Dario, Shamet, Fultz, whatever the $42M in cap space would have bought last summer, and all of our assets still in our pocket.
#RushTheProcess
pretty much.
I understood the Jimmy deal but the Tobias deal was overkill and a waste. The only moves at the deadline should have been to upgrade the bench.
76ciology wrote:Roco and Dario will be nowhere near as good as Tobi and Horford, ever.
Roco and Dario were traded when their value was the most highest. Noway you can trade 2 role players for a top tier star player in Butler. While Josh Richardson was a great consolation price for Jimmy.
$42M isn’t that valuable when top FAs just uses our capspace as leverage to get them to play for Miami, LA and New York.
Rush the process because the assets from Noel, Okafor, Roco, Dario to the kings pick to the cap space weren’t really that valuable.
For all the complains about the Fultz draft day trade... it will be a matter of time before Fultz will be better than Rudy Gay 2.0. While the value of the Kings pick when it was traded was way higher than what it’s realized value was.
We could have Jimmy and Fultz. But both are bad fit for Ben, given you can’t play less than 4 out on offense in today’s NBA.
Cov and Dario may not be as good as Tobias or AL BUT they fit in better. The FO is playing 2k in which you can just pile together the bigger names and expect great results. Sometimes you need players with role player skill sets because those above that level aren't able to play said role. Al is better than Dario but Dario is able to just spot up and doesn't need plays called for him to get him into a rhythm...and he could play with BOTH of our stars. Cov lacks Tobias' handle and PNR ability BUT said ability isn't that great and doesn't fit what we need which is a big body wing who can chuck 3s off the catch. Every single play on the roster is better than previous ones BUT when it comes to non star level guys...fit does begin to play a factor IMO.
We will never know but I truly believe that if we ran it back with that first unit and took our lumps, we would be in a better spot than now...or maybe similar BUT have ammo to fill holes. I mean we are talking about either hoping someone gives us good pieces for Zhaire Smith or potentially trading one our two stars. I believe Fultz needed a new start to fix his issues BUT still his contract would be reaaal useful right now. Same thing for Cov.
also I don't buy Jimmy or Theoretical Fultz being a bad fit with Ben. Dude had his best game of his career playing off of Raul **** Neto. It was always about him desperately wanting the PG label. Neto is no threat to that..Jimmy and Fultz were. For all the talk of Embiid's ego...and he does have one...Ben's ego is a thing too.
Arsenal wrote:We never should have started with the myopic series of trades we made last season. We be in far better shape with RoCo, Dario, Shamet, Fultz, whatever the $42M in cap space would have bought last summer, and all of our assets still in our pocket.
#RushTheProcess
pretty much.
I understood the Jimmy deal but the Tobias deal was overkill and a waste. The only moves at the deadline should have been to upgrade the bench.
We didn’t really give up anything Tobias. The best player on that trade won’t even crack our rotation right now. Shamet will never be as good as Korkmaz, specially if Kork goes to full Darth Vader mode.
And again, fans think cap space is that valuable but in real life no top FAs really considered playing with us. That cap space when the cards was shown, was really a ponzi scheme to allow us to kick the can with the tanking. It’s all good, i don’t mind for im a big fan of tanking.
Tobias isn’t Kawhi or LeBron. But he’s averaging 20ppg on good defense with good shooting numbers. And if you look at the numbers, the team plays worst when he’s off the court. He has the second most on vs off NetRtg to embiid.
Based on his offense, defense and impact, he’s been the team’s second best player. He fits with either Ben or Biid (which is a miracle). And he’s just 27.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
I think we just werent going to get it done with cov and dario. You need a player that can consistently get their own shot. Maybe if Ben was willing to get off that PG label earlier we could have got an actual one to provide the peremiter skilla that we needed and still need.
76ciology wrote:Roco and Dario will be nowhere near as good as Tobi and Horford, ever.
Roco and Dario were traded when their value was the most highest. Noway you can trade 2 role players for a top tier star player in Butler. While Josh Richardson was a great consolation price for Jimmy.
$42M isn’t that valuable when top FAs just uses our capspace as leverage to get them to play for Miami, LA and New York.
Rush the process because the assets from Noel, Okafor, Roco, Dario to the kings pick to the cap space weren’t really that valuable.
For all the complains about the Fultz draft day trade... it will be a matter of time before Fultz will be better than Rudy Gay 2.0. While the value of the Kings pick when it was traded was way higher than what it’s realized value was.
We could have Jimmy and Fultz. But both are bad fit for Ben, given you can’t play less than 4 out on offense in today’s NBA.
Cov and Dario may not be as good as Tobias or AL BUT they fit in better. The FO is playing 2k in which you can just pile together the bigger names and expect great results. Sometimes you need players with role player skill sets because those above that level aren't able to play said role. Al is better than Dario but Dario is able to just spot up and doesn't need plays called for him to get him into a rhythm...and he could play with BOTH of our stars. Cov lacks Tobias' handle and PNR ability BUT said ability isn't that great and doesn't fit what we need which is a big body wing who can chuck 3s off the catch. Every single play on the roster is better than previous ones BUT when it comes to non star level guys...fit does begin to play a factor IMO.
We will never know but I truly believe that if we ran it back with that first unit and took our lumps, we would be in a better spot than now...or maybe similar BUT have ammo to fill holes. I mean we are talking about either hoping someone gives us good pieces for Zhaire Smith or potentially trading one our two stars. I believe Fultz needed a new start to fix his issues BUT still his contract would be reaaal useful right now. Same thing for Cov.
also I don't buy Jimmy or Theoretical Fultz being a bad fit with Ben. Dude had his best game of his career playing off of Raul **** Neto. It was always about him desperately wanting the PG label. Neto is no threat to that..Jimmy and Fultz were. For all the talk of Embiid's ego...and he does have one...Ben's ego is a thing too.
Wait..
You really think our team will be better if we replace Tobi and Horford with Dario and Roco?
Al has the highest NetRtg (+4.9) on the team with atleast 1000minutes game played (1,265minutes).
Tobias has the second highest on vs off NetRtg on the team.
Roco and Dario are two role players averaging 10-12ppg with below league average 3pt% on their teams right now.
Both guys have been unplayable in the playoffs, thats why we have to trade them.
If you notice the trend of our roster construction we are gearing towards on being a playoff team from a regular season team.
So byebye Roco, Dario and Jj. Hello Josh Rich, Tobi and Al.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Tobias and Al are better than Cov and Dario for sure. However as a lineup I would take the skillsets of Cov and Dario over those two. It doesn't have to be those two but their playstyles mesh better than Al and Tobias'. Tobias is a methodical scorer type who functions in the same space as Ben and Embiid. We need him to be a more of a spot up guy and that simply is not his game. We need Al to be a sniper and that is not his game. As such they tend to have their best games when one of our stars are out or not playing hard. Yeah the team still would need a shot creator/ PNR type hence I did not mention JJ in this scenario. That of course is hard to find one who is willing/able to also spot up of course (This was the issue with Jimmy for example).
Also while yeah we aren't a destination like LA or Miami...cap space is useful for more than just signing dudes. It makes trades a lot easier and by not making the Tobias trade we would have ammo and young talent to bolster the lineup without having to worry about matching as much. I was down on Shamet at the time of the trade IIRC but that still doesn't mean it was fine to just trade him. The Tobias trade sucks not because of Tobias but because it emptied the war chest for minimal gain or IMO a worse fit.
Again everyone on this team is a nice player IMO but as a whole it just doesn't mesh as well and while I am also fine with seing if the "built for the playoffs" stuff works out...I am not going to hold my breath. I have said on many occasions I am fine with the sub optimal fit of Ben and Embiid. Both guys upside and defensive ability makes up for that IMO. However, the fact that we doubled down on players who also want to take their turns in the same space is where it gets iffy. Horford is at his best at the 5. He played with Baynes who spent most of his time stuck in a corner...and didn't play that many minutes. Tobias is at his best in grind it out possesion in which his bullies his way to a mid range jumper. Can't do that here with Ben, Embiid AND Horford also occupying the same space and he isn't good enough to dictate that role either. Its just a clunky mess as such it often looks better when 1 or 2 of the 4 aren't on the floor...and I think trading one of Ben or Embiid is a poor choice to resolve that. Its an issue that did not need to be a thing. They went all in onm Embiid insurance and Al is losing a step and isn't even that. They wanted Tobias to be the clutch time scorer and the jury is out on that. I just don't think anything they did this offseason solved the problems the team has and it created new ones. The best move they made was bringing Furkan back and that was literally an afterthought after Korver cucked us.
time will tell tho. I have been wrong plenty of times before.
