So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[ProcessDoctor]

In the past few seasons we've seen: Kawhi get moved (2x), AD, Harden, Chris Paul (3x), Butler (3x), Russ (trash), Durant, Kyrie (2x)

Guys become available and things change so fast during the NBA calendar. We'll absolutely get another chance and it won't be a Lavine tier player.

A glimmer of hope. My only pause is, do we have time to keep waiting with Embiid? I mean that in terms of his physical health and potential frustration with not having another star to help carry the load.

[stormi]

In the past few seasons we've seen: Kawhi get moved (2x), AD, Harden, Chris Paul (3x), Butler (3x), Russ (trash), Durant, Kyrie (2x)

Guys become available and things change so fast during the NBA calendar. We'll absolutely get another chance and it won't be a Lavine tier player.

A glimmer of hope. My only pause is, do we have time to keep waiting with Embiid? I mean that in terms of his physical health and potential frustration with not having another star to help carry the load.

I think the doom and gloom over Embiid's physical conditions are overstated. We've got at least 3 years (minimum) of dominant uncoverable Embiid. That gives Morey plenty of time to build a winner.

He also sees and reads all the headlines and reports like us. Moves will be made sooner rather than later, the writing has been on the wall.

[ProcessDoctor]

In the past few seasons we've seen: Kawhi get moved (2x), AD, Harden, Chris Paul (3x), Butler (3x), Russ (trash), Durant, Kyrie (2x)

Guys become available and things change so fast during the NBA calendar. We'll absolutely get another chance and it won't be a Lavine tier player.

A glimmer of hope. My only pause is, do we have time to keep waiting with Embiid? I mean that in terms of his physical health and potential frustration with not having another star to help carry the load.

I think the doom and gloom over Embiid's physical conditions are overstated. We've got at least 3 years (minimum) of dominant uncoverable Embiid. That gives Morey plenty of time to build a winner.

He also sees and reads all the headlines and reports like us. Moves will be made sooner rather than later, the writing has been on the wall.

3 years go by fast man. I just don't want another AI situation where we keep surrounding our franchise player with guys who are "just enough." Jo deserves to be paired with another top 15 talent and we should aggressively be pursuing that (and are, I trust Morey). Let's hope another top guy becomes available soon.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

A glimmer of hope. My only pause is, do we have time to keep waiting with Embiid? I mean that in terms of his physical health and potential frustration with not having another star to help carry the load.

I think the doom and gloom over Embiid's physical conditions are overstated. We've got at least 3 years (minimum) of dominant uncoverable Embiid. That gives Morey plenty of time to build a winner.

He also sees and reads all the headlines and reports like us. Moves will be made sooner rather than later, the writing has been on the wall.

3 years go by fast man. I just don't want another AI situation where we keep surrounding him with guys who are "just enough." Jo deserves to be paired with another top 15 talent and we should aggressively be pursuing that (and are, I trust Morey). Let's hope another top guy becomes available soon.

I understand your concern with this. I remember the AI years (as we all do) all too well. I mean....Getting excited about Lee Nailon, Kenny Thomas, Marc Jackson....Such sad times. Not that those guys weren't decent NBA players, but they were asked to do a lot more than they should have had to. Glenn Robinson, Keith Van Horn, a Chris Webber with half a knee...It was bad, and as bad as that was, it was way worse if we go even further back to the Barkley years where Hersey Hawkins was the only other legitimate NBA player that was paired with him...Ricky Green, Johnny Dawkins, Ron Anderson, Charles Friggin Shackleford!!!! UGH! Luckily for us, I don't think we're are quite that bad with Embiids surrounding cast. The team has certainly tried to build this right. I completely understand the urgency with this, but I also think (and I think i'm alone in this) that we already have something special brewing here with what we have. We'll see...I'm not going to complain if we make a big trade, but i'm also fine standing pat for now.

[Kobblehead]

De'Aaron Fox is the next pipedream.

Elite creator/elite defender.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

De'Aaron Fox is the next pipedream.

Elite creator/elite defender.

Another awesome Kentucky guard. I'm glad we finally wised up and got our hands on one.

[sixers hoops]

De'Aaron Fox is the next pipedream.

Elite creator/elite defender.

He seems about as unrealistic as just about anybody in the league at the moment. I guess we would be banking on Sac screwing things up and he eventually requests a trade. That seems a ways off tho.

[sixers hoops]

Borderline all-star.

By comparison, Simmons is All-Star without qualification with wins above replacement higher than Beal in every year going forward.

Edit: Let me know if it was information you were asking for.

Thanks!

Thats why Im not comfortable in trading Ben for Beal. Specially if I have to give up picks.

Beal is a very good player. But he’s not THAT good. That he can demand the asking price of AD, PG or Kawhi.

If Beal asks for a trade, the best player on the package their getting are guys like Bledsoe, Tobi and Levert. Then those teams will add a pick or two. Which if we add Shake, we should only give a pick. If they want a couple of picks, then we trade Shake to a third team and get a pick back.

That is unless Beal doesnt ask to be traded, then this is where TGP’s sentiment should kick in. Where we have to blow the Wiz away to some offer for them to hand us Beal.

My current mindset is more what you expressed in the other thread. Milton and Maxey have honestly blown away my expectations so far and I kind of want to get a larger sample size on them to have a better understanding of what they really are. Since we're no longer talking about a Harden level player, I kind of want to know whether we already have a reasonable facsimile of the player we're looking to add in-house.

Honestly, it's hard to know since we haven't really played anyone good (including the version of the Heat that we've played) and most of our losses came when we were really short handed.

My thoughts as well. I feel some pressure to build a winner around Joel in the near future, but gutting our core for Lavine, or swapping Ben for Beal, doesn’t really get us there. And if we do trade Maxey or Shake for a star, I would rather let them build up their value first. Right now, we have to package the two of them, Thybulle, and years of draft control. Maybe in a year, Shake or Maxey have much more value in a trade, or better yet, they have more value to our team.

Is Maxey, Shake, Ben, Tobias, and Joel a title starting five? Probably not, but I’d rather keep building with those guys and develop internally, then if a deal materializes at some point in the future, we’ll figure it out then.

[Olabikkel]

If Atlanta values Simmons high and would see him as good piece next to trae young, which he probably could be, would we consider something like:

Deandre hunter, kris dunn, snell (filler) and huerter and maybe pick for Simmons, Korkmaz?

Or do we get not enough all star quality back? We could Ask voor collins or rondo?

First one then phi could Flip snell, huerter, thybulle and Bradley and pick for f. Van vleet if Toronto decides to tank?
Dunn, hunter and van vleet are all,good perimeter defenders. Van vleet and dunn also good playmakers, van vleet and hunter good shooters. Phi wouldnt become less offensively, it would become better instead. Defensively we would be a little bit less with Simmons gone, but there are still capabele def players in the rotation.

Van vleet/maxey/dunn
Curry/Milton/Joe
Deandre hunter/green/Ferguson
Harris/Scott/reed
Embiid/howard/poirier

Next point of business would be upgrading pf backup, to have a very good 10 man play off rotation.

[kriss73]

Let's say we'll make few smaller moves for PO purposes

I think we need a defensive guard to match with the Kembas, the Hardens, the Jrues and the Herros of this world.
They can't be stopped but they have to be limited.

My target is Corey Joseph that will not be part of the Kings future and he has a very nice contract for the next year: 12M non guaranteed money which can be used for bigger trades or to stay under the tax line.

Maybe some combinations of expirings (Scott, Bradley, Fergs, Kork) and draft compensation will make it done.

Second move, we need an extra corp to throw aganst Giannis and Bam.
The obvious target here is PJ Tucker that fit into our TPE.

Draft compensations in form of second round picks.

[kriss73]

...and of course we should trade Ben Simmons for Hield or for Randle or for anyone

I'm joking

[76ciology]

Im starting to warm up that trading Simmons should be priority number 1.

My reason: if you project the value of all the guys, there’s no guy who’s going to make that steep decline except for Ben.

Tobi is even like fine wine. His contract becomes less poisonous as each season ends.

Maxey and Shake has nowhere to go but up!

Just think about it.

You may never be able to trade Ben, as high as his current value right now.

Worse comes to worst, I’d even do a trade similar to what the Rox did for Harden. I do think we can still be this good without Ben.

All the picks may allow us to trade for the disgruntled star somewhere down the road.

[Kobblehead]

Im starting to warm up that trading Simmons should be priority number 1.

My reason: if you project the value of all the guys, there’s no guy who’s going to make that steep decline except for Ben.

Tobi is even like fine wine. His contract becomes less poisonous as each season ends.

Maxey and Shake has nowhere to go but up!

Just think about it.

You may never be able to trade Ben, as high as his current value right now.

Worse comes to worst, I’d even do a trade similar to what the Rox did for Harden. I do think we can still be this good without Ben.

All the picks may allow us to trade for the disgruntled star somewhere down the road.

Jump aboard the "sell Simmons for young scorer, expirings, draft picks" train!

[76ciology]

Im starting to warm up that trading Simmons should be priority number 1.

My reason: if you project the value of all the guys, there’s no guy who’s going to make that steep decline except for Ben.

Tobi is even like fine wine. His contract becomes less poisonous as each season ends.

Maxey and Shake has nowhere to go but up!

Just think about it.

You may never be able to trade Ben, as high as his current value right now.

Worse comes to worst, I’d even do a trade similar to what the Rox did for Harden. I do think we can still be this good without Ben.

All the picks may allow us to trade for the disgruntled star somewhere down the road.

Jump aboard the "sell Simmons for young scorer, expirings, draft picks" train!

Time for us to retaliate and do our own bidding.

“The Revenge of the Sh*t”

[Kobblehead]

Let's say we'll make few smaller moves for PO purposes

I think we need a defensive guard to match with the Kembas, the Hardens, the Jrues and the Herros of this world.
They can't be stopped but they have to be limited.

My target is Corey Joseph that will not be part of the Kings future and he has a very nice contract for the next year: 12M non guaranteed money which can be used for bigger trades or to stay under the tax line.

Maybe some combinations of expirings (Scott, Bradley, Fergs, Kork) and draft compensation will make it done.

I like Corey Joseph as a target. Off-dribble creator that has a defensive reputation. Has a championship pedigree like Howard and Green.

Unfortunately, I do think he lost a step defensively since he left Indy. He can still create, though.

[sodmoraes]

Me too. Lucky for us , it seems Morey thinks that way too. Simmons is like a Draymond Green with worse shooting and better passing, a really good player as your 3rd best player.

I think when his athleticism wanes, he will be a pretty limited player, since he cant shoot.

If Maxey keeps getting better, and can become a 38% 3 pt shooter in the next years he will be our pg of the future. We should try to trade Simmons for a good Sg or Sf while his value is still high. In my opinion we should have traded him last year, it seems the league already know he's a limited player, so we wont get a lot of value trading him.

Im starting to warm up that trading Simmons should be priority number 1.

My reason: if you project the value of all the guys, there’s no guy who’s going to make that steep decline except for Ben.

Tobi is even like fine wine. His contract becomes less poisonous as each season ends.

Maxey and Shake has nowhere to go but up!

Just think about it.

You may never be able to trade Ben, as high as his current value right now.

Worse comes to worst, I’d even do a trade similar to what the Rox did for Harden. I do think we can still be this good without Ben.

All the picks may allow us to trade for the disgruntled star somewhere down the road.

Sent from my SM-G920I using RealGM mobile app

[brannigan73]

Toronto will right the ship and be in the hunt for a playoff spot at the least. Lowry wont be traded. Zach Lavine to be honest I dont know that guy is a particularly good NBA player. He shoots a ton so scores a lot. Beal the Wizards are insane about they will ask for Harden type packages for him and stick to it because the owner is a moron.

[phifans]

We have to deal Ben ASAP with Shake Maxey and Seth handling the ball so well.

[76ciology]

Where is this Lowry trade ideas coming from?

PnR points per possession.

Lowry .86
Tobias 1.02
Milton 1.12
Maxey .96

[76ciology]

Its better to go after Lavine than Beal.
Beal is quite overrated.

Lavine gives you 90% of what you get for Beal, while its likely to cost you only 70% off the price of Beal.