ImageImageImage

Buyout Market Thread

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, sixers hoops, Foshan, Sixerscan

ankle420breaker
General Manager
Posts: 9,050
And1: 2,091
Joined: Sep 21, 2005
Location: South Jersey

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#221 » by ankle420breaker » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:51 pm

elchengue20 wrote:I guess he can still be better than Mike Scott.
That's the measuring stick. At minimum, he's probably an upgrade from Scott.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app
ExplosionsInDaSky
RealGM
Posts: 21,302
And1: 5,443
Joined: Mar 17, 2004

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#222 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:01 am

Yoooooooooo.....Awe yeahhhhhhhh. Ya boi A to the Y "Antny" Tolliver coming to Philly yall....pshhhhhh, better clean out a spot in the trophy case yo....
Seriously though, I've wanted Tolliver on the 76ers for like ten years now. I've had him on any 2K roster I've made since like 2010. Love that guy! Dude is like Charles Shackleford with a three pointer!
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,954
And1: 26,917
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#223 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:07 am

Anthony Tolliver is the type of big that compliments Ben. Similar to Dario, Roco, and the two guys Ive been mentioning early in the season, Bertans and Love. He’s the cheap version of this archetype.

Someone to bail Ben out when his path to the rim is denied with little gravity. And the shooter has to jack up a volume of 3s on high release or near 40ft.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
kriss73
Analyst
Posts: 3,452
And1: 1,938
Joined: Jul 25, 2015
       

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#224 » by kriss73 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:12 am

Drummons? McLemore?Aldridge?Dedmon?Griffin?

We're unleashing Tollliver!

Image

Better the League pay attention.
Adam Silver wrote:"Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not."
SixthStreet
Starter
Posts: 2,185
And1: 1,842
Joined: May 31, 2018
       

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#225 » by SixthStreet » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:36 pm

Supplanting Scott in the rotation wasn't a high bar to clear and we've added a guy that won't. Lol.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,954
And1: 26,917
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#226 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:52 pm

If you think about it, we have the least exciting roster moves this season. Maybe since we started drafting lottery picks in 2013.

Good but not spectacular draft.
Meh trades.
Meh signing.

But yeah, it’s better than creating mistakes like having a high payroll that wont allow us to sign a player of Anthony Tolliver’s caliber.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
zaz102
Starter
Posts: 2,118
And1: 1,258
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#227 » by zaz102 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:00 pm

76ciology wrote:If you think about it, we have the least exciting roster moves this season. Maybe since we started drafting lottery picks in 2013.

Good but not spectacular draft.
Meh trades.
Meh signing.

But yeah, it’s better than creating mistakes like having a high payroll that wont allow us to sign a player of Anthony Tolliver’s caliber.
Coincidentally also the first season they're in first the latest part of the season and most of the year as well.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,954
And1: 26,917
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#228 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:02 pm

zaz102 wrote:
76ciology wrote:If you think about it, we have the least exciting roster moves this season. Maybe since we started drafting lottery picks in 2013.

Good but not spectacular draft.
Meh trades.
Meh signing.

But yeah, it’s better than creating mistakes like having a high payroll that wont allow us to sign a player of Anthony Tolliver’s caliber.
Coincidentally also the first season they're in first the latest part of the season and most of the year as well.


Yup, shows us how big doc’s coaching and the jump on Biid and Tobi’s games are.

Dont get me wrong. The roster also played a part. But for me Doc’s coaching and Biid and Tobi’s development plays way bigger part on our current success.

Biid’s development with his jumper is huge. He is the most unstoppable player for me.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
zaz102
Starter
Posts: 2,118
And1: 1,258
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#229 » by zaz102 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:14 pm

76ciology wrote:
zaz102 wrote:
76ciology wrote:If you think about it, we have the least exciting roster moves this season. Maybe since we started drafting lottery picks in 2013.

Good but not spectacular draft.
Meh trades.
Meh signing.

But yeah, it’s better than creating mistakes like having a high payroll that wont allow us to sign a player of Anthony Tolliver’s caliber.
Coincidentally also the first season they're in first the latest part of the season and most of the year as well.


Yup, shows us how big doc’s coaching and the jump on Biid and Tobi’s games are.

Dont get me wrong. The roster also played a part. But for me Doc’s coaching and Biid and Tobi’s development plays way bigger part on our current success.

Biid’s development with his jumper is huge. He is the most unstoppable player for me.
I do think you're underestimating the GM moves a bit. They were good from the jump with virtually no offseason/prep.

On top of that, all of their contacts are valuable. Only one that is a bad contract is Scott who is a free agent. They can focus on making moves to improve rather than unload terrible fits/bad contracts.

It's more impressive they're in first place and didn't make a sexy move. I expect in the next year they'll make a move ranging between Lowry and Harden that will be adding to a virtually first place team.

Don't want to take anything from Doc though. He's been great and am excited to see what they come up for roster construction and with time to prepare.

Unlikely, but who knows, maybe a new voice in Doc can get Simmons to improve on offense.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,954
And1: 26,917
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#230 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:19 pm

zaz102 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
zaz102 wrote:Coincidentally also the first season they're in first the latest part of the season and most of the year as well.


Yup, shows us how big doc’s coaching and the jump on Biid and Tobi’s games are.

Dont get me wrong. The roster also played a part. But for me Doc’s coaching and Biid and Tobi’s development plays way bigger part on our current success.

Biid’s development with his jumper is huge. He is the most unstoppable player for me.
I do think you're underestimating the GM moves a bit. They were good from the jump with virtually no offseason/prep.

On top of that, all of their contacts are valuable. Only one that is a bad contract is Scott who is a free agent. They can focus on making moves to improve rather than unload terrible fits/bad contracts.

It's more impressive they're in first place and didn't make a sexy move. I expect in the next year they'll make a move ranging between Lowry and Harden that will be adding to a virtually first place team.

Don't want to take anything from Doc though. He's been great and am excited to see what they come up for roster construction and with time to prepare.

Unlikely, but who knows, maybe a new voice in Doc can get Simmons to improve on offense.


Me too.

Until then, i’ll call a spade a spade.

It’s been meh compared to the quantum leap in Doc’s coaching, Biid’s jumper and 50-40-90 Tobias.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
zaz102
Starter
Posts: 2,118
And1: 1,258
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#231 » by zaz102 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:25 pm

76ciology wrote:
zaz102 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Yup, shows us how big doc’s coaching and the jump on Biid and Tobi’s games are.

Dont get me wrong. The roster also played a part. But for me Doc’s coaching and Biid and Tobi’s development plays way bigger part on our current success.

Biid’s development with his jumper is huge. He is the most unstoppable player for me.
I do think you're underestimating the GM moves a bit. They were good from the jump with virtually no offseason/prep.

On top of that, all of their contacts are valuable. Only one that is a bad contract is Scott who is a free agent. They can focus on making moves to improve rather than unload terrible fits/bad contracts.

It's more impressive they're in first place and didn't make a sexy move. I expect in the next year they'll make a move ranging between Lowry and Harden that will be adding to a virtually first place team.

Don't want to take anything from Doc though. He's been great and am excited to see what they come up for roster construction and with time to prepare.

Unlikely, but who knows, maybe a new voice in Doc can get Simmons to improve on offense.


Me too.

Until then, i’ll call a spade a spade.

It’s been meh compared to the quantum leap in Doc’s coaching, Biid’s jumper and 50-40-90 Tobias.
Fair enough. I guess i just see it as inevitable considering they were in on the two biggest names this year and they essentially got movable players with good contracts.

But easier to plan than execute, so good point. Wait and see.

Awesome that the team's in first place and still looking at how they can make a big improvement. Good time to be a fan!
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,327
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#232 » by Sixerscan » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:47 pm

Joel’s improved season is clearly due to, in part, not playing with another center.

Tobias’s improved season is clearly due to, in part, not playing so much 3 with two centers on the court.

Both of their improved seasons are clearly due to, in part, having more shooting around them.

The Sixers being in first place in the east this year despite Joel only playing 44% of available minutes (compared to 43% last year) is clearly due to, in part, coming up with somewhat acceptable alternatives at center despite dedicating minimal resources to that spot.

Just calling a spade a spade.
zaz102
Starter
Posts: 2,118
And1: 1,258
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#233 » by zaz102 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:55 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Joel’s improved season is clearly due to, in part, not playing with another center.

Tobias’s improved season is clearly due to, in part, not playing so much 3 with two centers on the court.

Both of their improved seasons are clearly due to, in part, having more shooting around them.

The Sixers being in first place in the east this year despite Joel only playing 44% of available minutes (compared to 43% last year) is clearly due to, in part, coming up with somewhat acceptable alternatives at center despite dedicating minimal resources to that spot.

Just calling a spade a spade.
Yeah, no doubt even the best coach couldn't turn last years terrible roster construction into anything good. That's for sure.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,954
And1: 26,917
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#234 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:59 pm

Embiid wasnt shooting this well and Tobias was struggling so bad when Al and Ben weren’t clogging the paint for him IN THE BUBBLE.

And again, we could just let Al play off the bench like how we started Shake in Al’s place IN THE BUBBLE.

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/21/al-horford-reacts-to-new-role-of-coming-off-the-bench-for-the-sixers/

Biid is shooting this well because he worked his ass off during the offseason. He always have this upside and ive mentioned it before that he can be the league’s best shooting center and he should face up than post up, even before this jump happened.

Tobias is playing this well because of the visible increase in transition points and PnR. Which Brett and his Ben-centric offensive philosophy wouldnt allow.

I mean i can buy into the “this roster have improved spacing that is leading to an improvement in Jojo’s game” if Jojo was continuing his bullyball. But no, it’s flat out because he’s just a much better shooter.

ITS MOSTLY ABOUT COACHING AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
zaz102
Starter
Posts: 2,118
And1: 1,258
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#235 » by zaz102 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:05 pm

76ciology wrote:Embiid wasnt shooting this well and Tobias was struggling so bad when Al and Ben weren’t clogging the paint for him IN THE BUBBLE.

And again, we could just let Al play off the bench like how we started Shake in Al’s place IN THE BUBBLE.

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/21/al-horford-reacts-to-new-role-of-coming-off-the-bench-for-the-sixers/

Biid is shooting this well because he worked his ass off during the offseason. He always have this upside and ive mentioned it before that he can be the league’s best shooting center and he should face up than post up, even before this jump happened.

Tobias is playing this well because of the visible increase in transition points and PnR. Which Brett and his Ben-centric offensive philosophy wouldnt allow.

I mean i can buy into the “this roster have improved spacing that is leading to an improvement in Jojo’s game” if Jojo was continuing his bullyball. But no, it’s flat out because he’s just a much better shooter.

ITS MOSTLY ABOUT COACHING AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT.
I'll agree to disagree and go with the simpler possibility.

It could that Embiid became a lot better, Tobi became a lot better, Horford would have thrived in his 12 minutes of play, Shake would excel in a starting role, Richardson would have not been mediocre, and all of this comes from coaching and player development.

But I'll go with having two extra good shooters on the floor and not having two centers on floor makes it easier for them.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,954
And1: 26,917
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#236 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:18 pm

I’ll repeat.

Im not discounting roster change.

But it’s mostly about coaching change and player development that lead to Embiid becoming a better shooter and Tobi to improve his shooting %s.

Im just not that impressed with our roster moves like this recent one with Anthony Tolliver.

To be fair with Morey, he just didnt see that Rox wouldnt accept his trade offer involving Ben for Harden. Who the hell in the right mind would prefer Victor “damaged goods” Oladipo over Ben Simmons? And the Al trade was the precursor to that with the cap space to accommodate Harden’s $50M per year contract.

Read on Twitter


And the Harden trade not happening, set us back.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
zaz102
Starter
Posts: 2,118
And1: 1,258
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#237 » by zaz102 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:38 pm

76ciology wrote:I’ll repeat.

Im not discounting roster change.

But it’s mostly about coaching change and player development that lead to Embiid becoming a better shooter and Tobi to improve his shooting %s.

Im just not that impressed with our roster moves like this recent one with Anthony Tolliver.

To be fair with Morey, he just didnt see that Rox wouldnt accept his trade offer involving Ben for Harden. Who the hell in the right mind would prefer Victor “damaged goods” Oladipo over Ben Simmons? And the Al trade was the precursor to that with the cap space to accommodate Harden’s $50M per year contract.

And the Harden trade not happening, set us back.
I hear your argument, just too many hypotheticals for me. I can buy that Morey traded Horford for flexibility and even thought Harden would become available, but to think that he was banking on that deal I just can't buy. IMO, there are too many variables to think that way.

Also, I just can't see the move as a major setback that had us going from 6th and swept in the playoffs to first with a lot better flexibility regardless of coaching improvements and player development.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 65,954
And1: 26,917
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#238 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:17 pm

zaz102 wrote:
76ciology wrote:I’ll repeat.

Im not discounting roster change.

But it’s mostly about coaching change and player development that lead to Embiid becoming a better shooter and Tobi to improve his shooting %s.

Im just not that impressed with our roster moves like this recent one with Anthony Tolliver.

To be fair with Morey, he just didnt see that Rox wouldnt accept his trade offer involving Ben for Harden. Who the hell in the right mind would prefer Victor “damaged goods” Oladipo over Ben Simmons? And the Al trade was the precursor to that with the cap space to accommodate Harden’s $50M per year contract.

And the Harden trade not happening, set us back.
I hear your argument, just too many hypotheticals for me. I can buy that Morey traded Horford for flexibility and even thought Harden would become available, but to think that he was banking on that deal I just can't buy. IMO, there are too many variables to think that way.

Also, I just can't see the move as a major setback that had us going from 6th and swept in the playoffs to first with a lot better flexibility regardless of coaching improvements and player development.


Thanks for being open minded.

I dont think its a major setback. I still think we can give a treasure chest offer when there’s opportunity. But we could have been in a much better place IMO.

Maybe I just look highly at Morey and expect a lot better from him, because my team needs it.
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,946
And1: 16,327
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#239 » by Sixerscan » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:29 pm

76ciology wrote:Embiid wasnt shooting this well and Tobias was struggling so bad when Al and Ben weren’t clogging the paint for him IN THE BUBBLE.

And again, we could just let Al play off the bench like how we started Shake in Al’s place IN THE BUBBLE.

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/07/21/al-horford-reacts-to-new-role-of-coming-off-the-bench-for-the-sixers/

Biid is shooting this well because he worked his ass off during the offseason. He always have this upside and ive mentioned it before that he can be the league’s best shooting center and he should face up than post up, even before this jump happened.

Tobias is playing this well because of the visible increase in transition points and PnR. Which Brett and his Ben-centric offensive philosophy wouldnt allow.

I mean i can buy into the “this roster have improved spacing that is leading to an improvement in Jojo’s game” if Jojo was continuing his bullyball. But no, it’s flat out because he’s just a much better shooter.

ITS MOSTLY ABOUT COACHING AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT.


What are you talking about? Yes, that was the initial plan for Horford to come off the bench and play a smaller role (because Embiid is better not playing with another center and Harris is better at the 4) but, as you alluded to in your selective amnesia, Simmons obviously got hurt very early on, and that largely got scrapped. Horford started 3 of the 4 playoff games and averaged 32 mpg. 68% of his minutes in the playoffs were at the 4 (almost entirely with Embiid). Harris played 44% of his minutes at the 3.

Both of those guys have said many times that they had trouble in the awkward lineups last year and getting more shooting around them has helped them with having the years they are having. I’m not sure why anyone would dispute that or dismiss what Green and Curry (and probably Hill) bring to this team other than someone who has had a weird vendetta against Morey since he got here for reasons that remain unclear.
hookshot199
Analyst
Posts: 3,261
And1: 723
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
   

Re: Buyout Market Thread 

Post#240 » by hookshot199 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:46 pm

76ciology wrote:
zaz102 wrote:
76ciology wrote:I’ll repeat.

Im not discounting roster change.

But it’s mostly about coaching change and player development that lead to Embiid becoming a better shooter and Tobi to improve his shooting %s.

Im just not that impressed with our roster moves like this recent one with Anthony Tolliver.

To be fair with Morey, he just didnt see that Rox wouldnt accept his trade offer involving Ben for Harden. Who the hell in the right mind would prefer Victor “damaged goods” Oladipo over Ben Simmons? And the Al trade was the precursor to that with the cap space to accommodate Harden’s $50M per year contract.

And the Harden trade not happening, set us back.
I hear your argument, just too many hypotheticals for me. I can buy that Morey traded Horford for flexibility and even thought Harden would become available, but to think that he was banking on that deal I just can't buy. IMO, there are too many variables to think that way.

Also, I just can't see the move as a major setback that had us going from 6th and swept in the playoffs to first with a lot better flexibility regardless of coaching improvements and player development.


Thanks for being open minded.

I dont think its a major setback. I still think we can give a treasure chest offer when there’s opportunity. But we could have been in a much better place IMO.

Maybe I just look highly at Morey and expect a lot better from him, because my team needs it.


If we exit early, Simmons will be gone. His defense gives us a chance to compete against Brooklyn, but he's not made the improvements needed on offense. As for Doc, anything would have been an improvement over Brown. I wanted him fired in December. But Doc is a quality coach and, one of the most pleasant developments for me, is that he's developing a bench. He adds value not subtracts.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers