Celtics @ Sixers 7 pm ET

Mogul · Post #241 » by **Mogul** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:26 am

“Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.”
― John Quincy Adams

roma258 · Post #242 » by **roma258** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:35 am

I don't think anyone should be fired for executing the plan. But people should be evaluated on their performance. On what basis are we evaluating Brown? One running a coherent offense, establishing a defensive identity, developing young players? On what basis are we evaluating Hinkie? Compiling assets? Finding cheap young players with potential? Generating high draft picks? Right now, we're staring at 2 lost years. That's not nothing. That's 2 lost years of development, evaluation, building cohesion.

Look at this wreck of a roster and tell me who's going to be around for the "good times"? 3 guys? Maybe 4? Are we sure MCW is the pg of the future? Are we sure we're not jettisoning Noel if we get the number 1 pick and one of the bigs is a consensus number 1. The myopia of people obsessed with the plan to the point of not even looking at the present is getting tiresome.

roma258 · Post #243 » by **roma258** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:47 am

Btw, I really miss Kate Fagan from the Sixers beat. She was the only writer in recent memory who saw the big picture but also called out BS when she saw it. The current crop pretty much repeats common wisdom ad nauseum.

Embiid P · Post #244 » by **Embiid P** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:55 am

roma258 wrote:I don't think anyone should be fired for executing the plan. But people should be evaluated on their performance. On what basis are we evaluating Brown? One running a coherent offense, establishing a defensive identity, developing young players? On what basis are we evaluating Hinkie? Compiling assets? Finding cheap young players with potential? Generating high draft picks? Right now, we're staring at 2 lost years. That's not nothing. That's 2 lost years of development, evaluation, building cohesion.

Look at this wreck of a roster and tell me who's going to be around for the "good times"? 3 guys? Maybe 4? Are we sure MCW is the pg of the future? Are we sure we're not jettisoning Noel if we get the number 1 pick and one of the bigs is a consensus number 1. The myopia of people obsessed with the plan to the point of not even looking at the present is getting tiresome.

IMO the "lost years" came immediately in the years after we traded A.I. The goal then should have been to rebuild, yet it was a half-assed rebuild, management deluded themselves into thinking they could compete, and as a result they made a number of bad free agent signings, trades and draft picks which set us back even longer. Had we done what we were supposed to then, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now but instead possibly competing for a title. But alas, here we are.

As far as Noel goes, I would trade him if we are able to get Okafor or Towns preferably for a swingman. It would suck to let him go this early but sometimes you have to given the circumstances. I think MCW will be more effective once he has more talent around him.

Ultimately Hinkie will be evaluated on whether or not his plan works and Brown will be evaluated on developing his players once all of the talent is on the floor. Will it work? Who knows, but all we can do at this point is wait.

76ciology · Post #245 » by **76ciology** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:57 am

Scary thing about all this is this will get worse as the season goes due to our guys getting burnt out.

I'm just hoping that MCW and NOEL can pick up their slack as the season goes.

Post #246 » by **BullyKing** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:58 am

roma258 wrote:I don't think anyone should be fired for executing the plan. But people should be evaluated on their performance. On what basis are we evaluating Brown? One running a coherent offense, establishing a defensive identity, developing young players? On what basis are we evaluating Hinkie? Compiling assets? Finding cheap young players with potential? Generating high draft picks? Right now, we're staring at 2 lost years. That's not nothing. That's 2 lost years of development, evaluation, building cohesion.

Look at this wreck of a roster and tell me who's going to be around for the "good times"? 3 guys? Maybe 4? Are we sure MCW is the pg of the future? Are we sure we're not jettisoning Noel if we get the number 1 pick and one of the bigs is a consensus number 1. The myopia of people obsessed with the plan to the point of not even looking at the present is getting tiresome.

No, we're not sure we're keeping Noel but it doesn't matter. The whole objective of this portion of the rebuild is to collect assets. Hinkie has taken a team with virtually no assets and in 1.25 years turned into a team with a lot of assets. Those assets may yet continue to change but that's not the point right now.

76ciology · Post #247 » by **76ciology** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:05 am

I think we're just running too much. We need to slow it down, focus on defense and crashing the boards. Then let Wroten and MCW do their drive and dish game for our mid range shooting big men and shooters.

Defensively, we've got enough length to be a good defensive team on halfcourt but still we gave up almost 50 FG% for the celtics. Slow it down a little. Don't gamble that much on defense. Funnel the penetration to Nerlens. Keep the defense simple for our guys to rotate properly.

ryst · Post #248 » by **ryst** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:06 am

Sixerscan wrote:
ryst wrote:I don't see anyone crying about the tanking or the plan
I see people understand reality
and the reality after a 26 losing streak last year and maybe similar streak to start the season this year some people(including me) think it is too much and might get people fired

what is so outrageous about that?

I understand your point from management's perspective (they need someone to take the fall. still don't think they should do it though).

I don't understand it from your perspective. Do you just get pleasure out of seeing people lose their jobs?

why do you think I get pleasure of it?

I don't want anyone to get fired , I just think that if this losses continue at this rate someone will be fired

I never said I WANT anyone to get fired.

sometimes such as Doug Collins case I wanted him to get fired because I thought any day he is coaching the sixers the team gets worse and anyone will be better then him.

I don't think that way about BB , I just think that sometimes too many losses is much for ownership to take

Post #249 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:10 am

roma258 wrote:I don't think anyone should be fired for executing the plan. But people should be evaluated on their performance. On what basis are we evaluating Brown? One running a coherent offense, establishing a defensive identity, developing young players? On what basis are we evaluating Hinkie? Compiling assets? Finding cheap young players with potential? Generating high draft picks? Right now, we're staring at 2 lost years. That's not nothing. That's 2 lost years of development, evaluation, building cohesion.

Look at this wreck of a roster and tell me who's going to be around for the "good times"? 3 guys? Maybe 4? Are we sure MCW is the pg of the future? Are we sure we're not jettisoning Noel if we get the number 1 pick and one of the bigs is a consensus number 1. The myopia of people obsessed with the plan to the point of not even looking at the present is getting tiresome.

I think it's a fair point with Brown.

Hinkie's job is much more big picture though. No one is firing him because he didn't find the next Ben Wallace. While that's important to us now, that's only because we're basketball nuts and need something constructive to pass the time with while we wait for the core to develop. Would it be great if we can find the 3 or 4 D Leaguers that can actually play decade long careers as rotation guys in the NBA? Absolutely. But it's both unlikely and unnecessary to this plan working out.

Hinkie is being evaluated based on whether he finds a franchise player and builds a championship team. The guy with the best chance at that has a broken foot right now and we have to wait for it to heal. It sucks but that's just a reality, there's no getting around that. The guy with probably the 2nd best chance isn't going to be drafted for 7 months. 7 months from now MCW will probably be the 5th best prospect we have the rights to. I don't get why people are evaluating Hinkie based on him. It's like evaluating Presti based on Reggie Jackson or something.

Is that convenient for him? Sure. Does it buy him time? Absolutely. But I wouldn't be ok with him getting that time if I didn't see a clear end game. Embiid, 2015 1st, Noel, Saric and MCW with plenty of cap space seems like an awesome core. That's what I think is really important to evaluating him, not whether the last roster spot goes to Jakarr Sampson or Jordan McRae.

Post #250 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:11 am

ryst wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
ryst wrote:I don't see anyone crying about the tanking or the plan
I see people understand reality
and the reality after a 26 losing streak last year and maybe similar streak to start the season this year some people(including me) think it is too much and might get people fired

what is so outrageous about that?

I understand your point from management's perspective (they need someone to take the fall. still don't think they should do it though).

I don't understand it from your perspective. Do you just get pleasure out of seeing people lose their jobs?

why do you think I get pleasure of it?

I don't want anyone to get fired , I just think that if this losses continue at this rate someone will be fired

I never said I WANT anyone to get fired.

sometimes such as Doug Collins case I wanted him to get fired because I thought any day he is coaching the sixers the team gets worse and anyone will be better then him.

I don't think that way about BB , I just think that sometimes too many losses is much for ownership to take

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

Mik317 · Post #251 » by **Mik317** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:22 am

Ryst is right tho.

Tank or no Tank

0-20 or worse 0-30 probably gets someone bodied.

Post #252 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:24 am

Yeah I think he absolutely could be right. And I think it would be a bad move on the Sixers part. The other teams already dislike him, making a standup guy like Brown the sacrificial lamb would not go over well.

I don't delude myself into thinking that Brown will absolutely be the coach 5 years from now though. He's a player development coach, I have no idea if he's the right guy to coach a contending team (He might be)

bebopdeluxe · Post #253 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:32 am

But if wins and losses don't really matter...if this season is all about developing the few players on this roster who might be part of the rebuild, then a question:

Why did Brett Brown play KJ fewer minutes tonight than a guy they signed out of the D-League last week?

Post #254 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:37 am

I think he **** up.

Tom Moore @tmoore76ers · 2h 2 hours ago
#Sixers Brown: 'I think I could've played K.J. more.' #76ers

MRxBLACK · Post #255 » by **MRxBLACK** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:47 am

Stinky Hinkie wrote:IMO the "lost years" came immediately in the years after we traded A.I. The goal then should have been to rebuild, yet it was a half-assed rebuild, management deluded themselves into thinking they could compete, and as a result they made a number of bad free agent signings, trades and draft picks which set us back even longer. Had we done what we were supposed to then, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now but instead possibly competing for a title. But alas, here we are.

Ed Snider. What you wrote is the reason the Flyers are the way they are too.

bebopdeluxe · Post #256 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:49 am

Sixerscan wrote:I think he **** up.

Tom Moore @tmoore76ers · 2h 2 hours ago
#Sixers Brown: 'I think I could've played K.J. more.' #76ers

Does that answer scare you a little? This is a guy who spent over a decade on on of the greatest coaching staffs in NBA history. Even though this is only his second season as an NBA head coach, the guy has a ton of coaching experience from his days in Australia.

When a team is as devoid of talent as the Sixers are, how do you forget a guy with the relative toolbox that KJ has on your bench? And it is not just tonight...forget that he is not in the starting lineup now that MCW is back, they guy is only averaging one more MPG than Brandon Freaking Davies...

Does that make any sense to you?

Post #257 » by **Sixerscan** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:58 am

bebopdeluxe wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:I think he **** up.

Tom Moore @tmoore76ers · 2h 2 hours ago
#Sixers Brown: 'I think I could've played K.J. more.' #76ers

Does that answer scare you a little? This is a guy who spent over a decade on on of the greatest coaching staffs in NBA history. Even though this is only his second season as an NBA head coach, the guy has a ton of coaching experience from his days in Australia.

When a team is as devoid of talent as the Sixers are, how do you forget a guy with the relative toolbox that KJ has on your bench? And it is not just tonight...forget that he is not in the starting lineup now that MCW is back, they guy is only averaging one more MPG than Brandon Freaking Davies...

Does that make any sense to you?

I already said I am not sure whether or not he's a good coach for when the main goal transitions to winning games. Anyone who thinks a non-HOF coach is a permanent fixture on a team is delusional.

That being said, McDaniels entered tonight playing more minutes than all but 4 people in his draft class. Can we stop acting like he's been tied to the bench? Also Davies plays a different position than him so I don't get the comparison. Do you want Brown to make McDaniels the backup center? If there's someone he should be playing over its Covington and Thompson.

SexDrugsPnR · Post #258 » by **SexDrugsPnR** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:03 am

Yeah, Brown has had some WTF moments already this season. The technical the other night, now admitting that he somehow "forgot" about KJ. Also I think we might have seen 10 different starting lineups in 11 games. Some of it is understandable with the roster changes and MCW coming back from injury, but it would be nice to see the players develop some chemistry and familiarity.

bebopdeluxe · Post #259 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:08 am

Sixerscan wrote:
bebopdeluxe wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:I think he **** up.

Tom Moore @tmoore76ers · 2h 2 hours ago
#Sixers Brown: 'I think I could've played K.J. more.' #76ers

Does that answer scare you a little? This is a guy who spent over a decade on on of the greatest coaching staffs in NBA history. Even though this is only his second season as an NBA head coach, the guy has a ton of coaching experience from his days in Australia.

When a team is as devoid of talent as the Sixers are, how do you forget a guy with the relative toolbox that KJ has on your bench? And it is not just tonight...forget that he is not in the starting lineup now that MCW is back, they guy is only averaging one more MPG than Brandon Freaking Davies...

Does that make any sense to you?

I already said I am not sure whether or not he's a good coach for when the main goal transitions to winning games. Anyone who thinks a non-HOF coach is a permanent fixture on a team is delusional.

That being said, McDaniels entered tonight playing more minutes than all but 4 people in his draft class. Can we stop acting like he's been tied to the bench? Also Davies plays a different position than him so I don't get the comparison. Do you want Brown to make McDaniels the backup center? If there's someone he should be playing over its Covington and Thompson.

Fine with me. He SHOULD be playing over those guys.

To be fair, I am totally turned off by what Hinkie did to this roster - he went "full (Please Use More Appropriate Word)" - and so I have watched a grand total of one-half of ONE game this season (the 2nd half of the Houston game). I pray that no one gets hurt, and I will check back in at the lottery.

Aussiepiston1 · Post #260 » by **Aussiepiston1** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:09 am

I'm glad I'm not the only one frustrated KJ didn't play more minutes, He got hot there for a minute and then Coach Brown sat him down for the whole 4th quarter. Every time He is out there He makes an exciting play, I think He should be starting next to MCW. I hope Coach Brown takes His head out of His ass and realizes His golden boy Thompson isn't anything special.