So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and rumors

[Stanford]

Where is this Lowry trade ideas coming from?

PnR points per possession.

Lowry .86
Tobias 1.02
Milton 1.12
Maxey .96

Why is pick and roll production the important factor here?

[76ciology]

Where is this Lowry trade ideas coming from?

PnR points per possession.

Lowry .86
Tobias 1.02
Milton 1.12
Maxey .96

Why is pick and roll production the important factor here?

Because PnR is one of the two utmost skills we need from our 2nd star (the other is ISO). Having these two skills also means you can shoot from the perimeter, or atleast the defense do respect you as a perimeter shooter.

You don’t agree?

[Stanford]

Where is this Lowry trade ideas coming from?

PnR points per possession.

Lowry .86
Tobias 1.02
Milton 1.12
Maxey .96

Why is pick and roll production the important factor here?

Because PnR is one of the two utmost skills we need from our 2nd star (the other is ISO). Having these two skills also means you can shoot from the perimeter, or atleast the defense do respect you as a perimeter shooter.

You don’t agree?

We don't even run pick and roll, lol. Dwight is the only roll guy on the damn team

[76ciology]

Why is pick and roll production the important factor here?

Because PnR is one of the two utmost skills we need from our 2nd star (the other is ISO). Having these two skills also means you can shoot from the perimeter, or atleast the defense do respect you as a perimeter shooter.

You don’t agree?

We don't even run pick and roll, lol. Dwight is the only roll guy on the damn team

We actually do.

We are 9th in the league on points generated by PnR ball handlers. Our PnR ball handlers scores 20ppg off this action.

Shake, Seth, Maxey and Tobias are good PnR players.

[youngcrev]

Where is this Lowry trade ideas coming from?

PnR points per possession.

Lowry .86
Tobias 1.02
Milton 1.12
Maxey .96

Why is pick and roll production the important factor here?

Because PnR is one of the two utmost skills we need from our 2nd star (the other is ISO). Having these two skills also means you can shoot from the perimeter, or atleast the defense do respect you as a perimeter shooter.

You don’t agree?

I'm less dogmatic about it (particularly with how good Shake has looked). Lowry is an all star caliber player that defends, gets to the line, makes smart plays, and shoots for volume from 3. I think he'd be a great fit (here, and pretty much anywhere. Smart players that defend and shoot fit everywhere) and increases the team's talent level dramatically if Green is the only rotation player you'd be losing for him.

[76ciology]

Why is pick and roll production the important factor here?

Because PnR is one of the two utmost skills we need from our 2nd star (the other is ISO). Having these two skills also means you can shoot from the perimeter, or atleast the defense do respect you as a perimeter shooter.

You don’t agree?

I'm less dogmatic about it (particularly with how good Shake has looked). Lowry is an all star caliber player that defends, gets to the line, makes smart plays, and shoots for volume from 3. I think he'd be a great fit (here, and pretty much anywhere. Smart players that defend and shoot fit everywhere) and increases the team's talent level dramatically if Green is the only rotation player you'd be losing for him.

Yeah.

But still..

He’s not a better option than Tobi or Seth or Maxey or Shake in crunch time.

If you can sign him for the minimum, then go ahead.

But you know Raps is going to ask a lot for him. And i’d rather use the assets for a guy who can fill what we really need.

[youngcrev]

Because PnR is one of the two utmost skills we need from our 2nd star (the other is ISO). Having these two skills also means you can shoot from the perimeter, or atleast the defense do respect you as a perimeter shooter.

You don’t agree?

I'm less dogmatic about it (particularly with how good Shake has looked). Lowry is an all star caliber player that defends, gets to the line, makes smart plays, and shoots for volume from 3. I think he'd be a great fit (here, and pretty much anywhere. Smart players that defend and shoot fit everywhere) and increases the team's talent level dramatically if Green is the only rotation player you'd be losing for him.

Yeah.

But still..

He’s not a better option than Tobi or Seth or Maxey or Shake in crunch time.

If you can sign him for the minimum, then go ahead.

But you know Raps is going to ask a lot for him. And i’d rather use the assets for a guy who can fill what we really need.

Wait what? How isn't he better than those guys in crunch time? Except for maybe Shake... Who I'm not trying to get ahead of myself on.

He'd be the best ball handler on the team, makes good decisions, can shoot off the dribble, can make free throws at a high rate. How isn't that a good guy to have in crunch time?

[76ciology]

I'm less dogmatic about it (particularly with how good Shake has looked). Lowry is an all star caliber player that defends, gets to the line, makes smart plays, and shoots for volume from 3. I think he'd be a great fit (here, and pretty much anywhere. Smart players that defend and shoot fit everywhere) and increases the team's talent level dramatically if Green is the only rotation player you'd be losing for him.

Yeah.

But still..

He’s not a better option than Tobi or Seth or Maxey or Shake in crunch time.

If you can sign him for the minimum, then go ahead.

But you know Raps is going to ask a lot for him. And i’d rather use the assets for a guy who can fill what we really need.

Wait what? How isn't he better than those guys in crunch time? Except for maybe Shake... Who I'm not trying to get ahead of myself on.

He'd be the best ball handler on the team, makes good decisions, can shoot off the dribble, can make free throws at a high rate. How isn't that a good guy to have in crunch time?

Yup.

If you look at his numbers, our guys run the PnR better than him (ive laid out the numbers on my previous post) He doesnt even run much isolations this season (due to age? Because he’s not that good?), and last season he isn’t a good ISO player (.87 ppp; which we should know by eyetest).

This is not like Max Kellerman choosing Iguodala over Curry, hot take

But until stats prove it otherwise, Lowry doesnt give you a better option than Shake, Maxey, Seth or Tobi down the stretch.

Simply said, he doesnt move the needle. Its more like a sideways move. You’re getting basically the same team we have now but you replace Seth, Milton or Maxey’s minutes with Lowry.

And in terms of asset management, it’s not a good asset allocation given Raps will ask a lot for him. And you’d be in a much better position to funnel all those assets to a player that fills a bigger need, our 2nd star.

[76ciology]

Another comparison is per 36 scoring numbers, given the dynamic of our rotation.

As for per36, Maxey 18.9, Seth 20.4 and Milton 22.9 are all better than Lowry’s scoring (18.6 per 36)

At the very scenario that Kyle Lowry is better (which is more of a bias due to reputation?), he’s not THAT much better than all these three guards in terms of scoring.

The difference on offense between Lowry and our guards is Lowry being given more minutes.

[youngcrev]

Yeah.

But still..

He’s not a better option than Tobi or Seth or Maxey or Shake in crunch time.

If you can sign him for the minimum, then go ahead.

But you know Raps is going to ask a lot for him. And i’d rather use the assets for a guy who can fill what we really need.

Wait what? How isn't he better than those guys in crunch time? Except for maybe Shake... Who I'm not trying to get ahead of myself on.

He'd be the best ball handler on the team, makes good decisions, can shoot off the dribble, can make free throws at a high rate. How isn't that a good guy to have in crunch time?

Yup.

If you look at his numbers, our guys run the PnR better than him (ive laid out the numbers on my previous post) He doesnt even run much isolations this season (due to age? Because he’s not that good?), and last season he isn’t a good ISO player (.87 ppp; which we should know by eyetest).

This is not like Max Kellerman choosing Iguodala over Curry, hot take

But until stats prove it otherwise, Lowry doesnt give you a better option than Shake, Maxey, Seth or Tobi down the stretch.

Simply said, he doesnt move the needle. Its more like a sideways move. You’re getting basically the same team we have now but you replace Seth, Milton or Maxey’s minutes with Lowry.

And in terms of asset management, it’s not a good asset allocation given Raps will ask a lot for him. And you’d be in a much better position to funnel all those assets to a player that fills a bigger need, our 2nd star.

And my response without even looking into those numbers: so what? I'm not really sure why you think those are the only 2 important things to have on floor down stretch, or why it would be that important for all 5 guys to do it.

Embiid's our go to guy. Lowry can take care of the ball and play off of him. Not sure what's hard about this. If you need someone to create from the perimeter, put the ball in Shake's hands.

[76ciology]

Wait what? How isn't he better than those guys in crunch time? Except for maybe Shake... Who I'm not trying to get ahead of myself on.

He'd be the best ball handler on the team, makes good decisions, can shoot off the dribble, can make free throws at a high rate. How isn't that a good guy to have in crunch time?

Yup.

If you look at his numbers, our guys run the PnR better than him (ive laid out the numbers on my previous post) He doesnt even run much isolations this season (due to age? Because he’s not that good?), and last season he isn’t a good ISO player (.87 ppp; which we should know by eyetest).

This is not like Max Kellerman choosing Iguodala over Curry, hot take

But until stats prove it otherwise, Lowry doesnt give you a better option than Shake, Maxey, Seth or Tobi down the stretch.

Simply said, he doesnt move the needle. Its more like a sideways move. You’re getting basically the same team we have now but you replace Seth, Milton or Maxey’s minutes with Lowry.

And in terms of asset management, it’s not a good asset allocation given Raps will ask a lot for him. And you’d be in a much better position to funnel all those assets to a player that fills a bigger need, our 2nd star.

And my response without even looking into those numbers: so what? I'm not really sure why you think those are the only 2 important things to have on floor down stretch, or why it would be that important for all 5 guys to do it.

Embiid's our go to guy. Lowry can take care of the ball and play off of him. Not sure what's hard about this. If you need someone to create from the perimeter, put the ball in Shake's hands.

What do you think will be Raptors’ asking price?

[youngcrev]

Yup.

If you look at his numbers, our guys run the PnR better than him (ive laid out the numbers on my previous post) He doesnt even run much isolations this season (due to age? Because he’s not that good?), and last season he isn’t a good ISO player (.87 ppp; which we should know by eyetest).

This is not like Max Kellerman choosing Iguodala over Curry, hot take

But until stats prove it otherwise, Lowry doesnt give you a better option than Shake, Maxey, Seth or Tobi down the stretch.

Simply said, he doesnt move the needle. Its more like a sideways move. You’re getting basically the same team we have now but you replace Seth, Milton or Maxey’s minutes with Lowry.

And in terms of asset management, it’s not a good asset allocation given Raps will ask a lot for him. And you’d be in a much better position to funnel all those assets to a player that fills a bigger need, our 2nd star.

And my response without even looking into those numbers: so what? I'm not really sure why you think those are the only 2 important things to have on floor down stretch, or why it would be that important for all 5 guys to do it.

Embiid's our go to guy. Lowry can take care of the ball and play off of him. Not sure what's hard about this. If you need someone to create from the perimeter, put the ball in Shake's hands.

What do you think will be Raptors’ asking price?

No clue if they're even looking to move him. 1st/Thybulle/expirings feels reasonable if they are.

[76ciology]

And my response without even looking into those numbers: so what? I'm not really sure why you think those are the only 2 important things to have on floor down stretch, or why it would be that important for all 5 guys to do it.

Embiid's our go to guy. Lowry can take care of the ball and play off of him. Not sure what's hard about this. If you need someone to create from the perimeter, put the ball in Shake's hands.

What do you think will be Raptors’ asking price?

No clue if they're even looking to move him. 1st/Thybulle/expirings feels reasonable if they are.

if I’m allocating my assets, i’d rather use 1st, thybulle and expirings with more assets to go after a long term 2nd star.

That asset package you mentioned along with Milton could maybe get us Lavine or Beal. I cant see any team being able to match that package.

And if I want Lowry, I’ll just give more green light and playing time to Maxey and Milton.

[thenbaman]

We had a chance to do something that would really make a difference but we passed
all we can hope for now is to not go down in the first round the next few years.

[6ers83]

Just get a guy that can shoot. This isn’t 1985 you do not have to have a Traditional point guard so to speak.

[sixers4real]

Trading for Lowry does not make us a contender and some of you are willing to give up a mix of Seth Curry, Thybulle, Milton, future 1st round picks for him. All of that has value.
Lowry is not putting us in the same conversation as Lakers Clippers Bucks Nets.

Why would we waste our assets for him?

I’m quite sure Morey will only trade our valuable assets for another star (Lowry is not a star at this point) to compliment Embiid and Simmons.
Or trade Simmons and assets for a superstar, just like he tried with Harden (clear superstar).

[Stanford]

Trading for Lowry definitely feels like loony bin type ish.

[eyeatoma]

Trading for Lowry does not make us a contender and some of you are willing to give up a mix of Seth Curry, Thybulle, Milton, future 1st round picks for him. All of that has value.
Lowry is not putting us in the same conversation as Lakers Clippers Bucks Nets.

Why would we waste our assets for him?

I’m quite sure Morey will only trade our valuable assets for another star (Lowry is not a star at this point) to compliment Embiid and Simmons.
Or trade Simmons and assets for a superstar, just like he tried with Harden (clear superstar).

There is no other clear superstar that fits. Is Beal a clear superstar? I guess you could call him that given that he's the lead leading scorer. Is Lavine? Or do you mean someone like McCollum, or if you're talking actual superstar, Lillard. Who else is there?

[sixers4real]

Trading for Lowry does not make us a contender and some of you are willing to give up a mix of Seth Curry, Thybulle, Milton, future 1st round picks for him. All of that has value.
Lowry is not putting us in the same conversation as Lakers Clippers Bucks Nets.

Why would we waste our assets for him?

I’m quite sure Morey will only trade our valuable assets for another star (Lowry is not a star at this point) to compliment Embiid and Simmons.
Or trade Simmons and assets for a superstar, just like he tried with Harden (clear superstar).

There is no other clear superstar that fits. Is Beal a clear superstar? I guess you could call him that given that he's the lead leading scorer. Is Lavine? Or do you mean someone like McCollum, or if you're talking actual superstar, Lillard. Who else is there?

Lillard is the obvious superstar that can be available soon and I would trade Simmons +++ for him.

Booker is another player in that conversation. Not that great of a player as Lillard, but considering age, I would trade Simmons +++ for him.

Then comes Beal, Lavine and McCollum.
Would I trade Simmons + picks + Maxey + Thybulle for any of Beal, Lavine or McCollum? No. Mostly because I believe in Shake Milton or Maxey developing in lite version of these players.

But I for sure would trade Harris, 2 1st round picks, 2 swaps and Thybulle for them.

[eyeatoma]

Trading for Lowry does not make us a contender and some of you are willing to give up a mix of Seth Curry, Thybulle, Milton, future 1st round picks for him. All of that has value.
Lowry is not putting us in the same conversation as Lakers Clippers Bucks Nets.

Why would we waste our assets for him?

I’m quite sure Morey will only trade our valuable assets for another star (Lowry is not a star at this point) to compliment Embiid and Simmons.
Or trade Simmons and assets for a superstar, just like he tried with Harden (clear superstar).

There is no other clear superstar that fits. Is Beal a clear superstar? I guess you could call him that given that he's the lead leading scorer. Is Lavine? Or do you mean someone like McCollum, or if you're talking actual superstar, Lillard. Who else is there?

Lillard is the obvious superstar that can be available soon and I would trade Simmons +++ for him.

Booker is another player in that conversation. Not that great of a player as Lillard, but considering age, I would trade Simmons +++ for him.

Then comes Beal, Lavine and McCollum.
Would I trade Simmons + picks + Maxey + Thybulle for any of Beal, Lavine or McCollum? No. Mostly because I believe in Shake Milton or Maxey developing in lite version of these players.

But I for sure would trade Harris, 2 1st round picks, 2 swaps and Thybulle for them.

Yeah got to say I agree. Although I wouldn't hate it if Simmons was traded for Beal. Probably not Lavine. But that package you mentioned looks like it could work.

Who would you be giving up for LIllard? Simmons, Thybulle, picks? Woudl you includes one of Shake,Maxi, Joe?