Embiid Updates/Discussion

[Skates]

I don't see this as some strategic smokescreen or news release, there really is no need for it given where we are picking. I can see Woj possibly giving the team a heads up that he was going to run with the story, very strategic if he did that since getting closer to sources with the Sixers would be very nice for him going forward, they are one of the few teams he doesn't usually have a heads up on.

As for Embiid, he has never really reinjured himself, just soreness the last time and slower than expected healing this time.

The thing that does worry me is that it may be something with his bones that is the issue, especially after the other stress fracture in his back. I am confident the team tested and examined everything about his medical condition before making the pick, they are incredibly anal in a good way about stuff like that. But some things are just not possible to fully tell.

I always kind of pegged Embiid at having a fully healthy and dominant career at around 50/50, for any big guy there is risk and his is higher than average, but his skill set and abilities are off the charts, so it remains a good gamble, with plenty of fall back options if the worst occurs.

No use jumping to any conclusions since plenty of people are already doing that. I have always felt they wanted to give Embiid more time to physically mature, completely finish growing in his growth plates and the like. Only then will we really have an idea about his long term health and physical stability.

[TigerInYourTank]

I'll address your points, individually:

Do you all understand the freaking out could be about something like they thought his foot would be 100% now but it's only 95%???

A foot that is 95% healed (where did this come from?) when it should have healed completely in half the time is a reason to be very concerned. We are talking about a bone surface that is around a square inch or so, with a screw added. That's not very much bone, actually, and certainly not much for ~51 weeks of healing.

Do you all understand some times injuries don't ever fully heal but you can function normally anyway, even including playing pro sports?

Yes, this statement makes a lot of sense. However, if it doesn't fully heal, I think we see latter-day Shaq number games-played, per season.

Do you all understand all the posturing that takes place prior to a draft?

I just don't buy into a conspiracy theories, here. It doesn't make sense to downplay the value of your best prospect at a time when players have higher likelihood to be traded.

Did any of you see anywhere in that article reference that Embiid was being shut down from practicing or that he was going to miss any additional time?

Yes. Hinkie said this will "cause us to pause and reassess his current activities."

Do you all understand the Sixers probably aren't going to be very good again next season even if Embiid is healthy all year?

The point is to see some sunshine this year and an unhealthy Embiid is the opposite of that.

[Ericb5]

That is good news. Best news about this bad news (lol) is that Embiid felt no pain, now lets hope more positive news comes out.

With all that said, anyone who knows a lot about this injury and such, is it possible to think Embiid can play multiple healthy 82 game seasons or that's more so unlikely? I hope so but I don't know much about this injury besides Yao Ming lol.

There is no medical reason why Embiid couldn't have a completely normal health profile for his career.

However, his particular injury is one of the worst injuries that a big man can have, and there is no getting around that fact either.

Frankly, we just don't know what will happen, but it is safe to say that the comparable worst case scenarios of Bill Walton and Yao Ming, were much more severe in their cases, and with much worse medical technology and advice. Embiid has a terrific chance of having a longer and more productive career than what Yao or Walton had.

We will justifiably be nervous for a long time, but it could really go either way and the facts are in his favor overall.



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[Ericb5]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JeffSkversky/status/610181246552047617[/tweet]

Apparently no second surgery necessary, so that is some good news, I think.

That is great news. If he needs a second surgery I will truly panic, and will become decidedly less optimistic.

Even that wouldn't be a death sentence, but that would be a major blow to his chances, and would completely demoralize me.




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[cksdayoff]

with the information given, posters on both sides of the fence have every reason to express their opinion without getting called out, imo.

[LloydFree]

That is good news. Best news about this bad news (lol) is that Embiid felt no pain, now lets hope more positive news comes out.

With all that said, anyone who knows a lot about this injury and such, is it possible to think Embiid can play multiple healthy 82 game seasons or that's more so unlikely? I hope so but I don't know much about this injury besides Yao Ming lol.

Zadrunas Ilgauskas was drafted in 1996. He broke his right foot, and missed his the 96/97 season. Made all rookie in 98. Fractured the navicular bone in his left foot in 1999, missed the 99/00 season and part of the 00/01 season. Averaged 79 games per season 2002-2007.

[TigerInYourTank]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JeffSkversky/status/610181246552047617[/tweet]

Apparently no second surgery necessary, so that is some good news, I think.

That is great news. If he needs a second surgery I will truly panic, and will become decidedly less optimistic.

Even that wouldn't be a death sentence, but that would be a major blow to his chances, and would completely demoralize me.


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The thing that scares me is that he has fluid-filled cysts where healthy bone should be. Space gets taken up by such things without providing support for normal NBA wear-and-tear. The problem is if he has them, what will get accomplished by creating another clean break (remember first break was clean and that is supposed to be a good, fast-healing case) and hoping for it to heal correctly and in the right time-frame?

Some med student on reddit linked this article:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0101/p85.h ... 0101p85-b1

...and quoted the text below:

Radiologic follow-up is not useful in most circumstances. Plain films are not sensitive enough to detect subtle changes in most cases and delay the clinical picture significantly. Bone scans can remain abnormal for up to two years after clinical healing. CT scanning can reveal significant loss of bony mineralization, sclerosis, notching of the proximal articular surface, and subchondral cysts even in a normal healing fracture; it is, therefore, unreliable as a guide to follow-up.

But Hinkie has already made comments to the effect that this will change the schedule for Embiid and, if you don't believe the conspiracy theories, there were either other reasons to be concerned about the CT scan. Either that or the scan result was quite dramatic.

[76ers 2020]

The same people who think this could be a smokescreen are the same people who think this isn't the end of the world and Embiid will be fine. If Embiid can't heal properly in 12 months when the real healing time is 5-8 months then how can you expect him to play 82+ games a year for the next 10+ years? Be realistic people. There's a 90% chance Embiid is another Oden situation. I pray to god I'm wrong but I'm almost certain I'm not.

Dr. Kenneth Hunt, Assistant Professor of Orthopedics at Stanford

"The most common treatment is to make small incisions to place one or two screws across the fracture to stabilize it," Hunt said. "If the fracture is displaced, a bone graft can accelerate healing."
Hunt noted that despite the high profile examples of athletes who have battled recurrences of a navicular fracture, "the healing rates of this fracture are high."

"The majority of these injuries will heal completely," Hunt said. "Getting to it early is a good prognostic sign. In his case, it appears it was treated early and appropriately. In the cases I have seen, the athletes that have recurrent fractures have high arches and stiff feet. They can develop large spurs in the adjacent bones. But again, to the majority of athletes this will heal and not be an issue in the future."

As for recovery time, Hunt said that players generally resume basketball activities in 4-6 months and are ready to play in nine months, though in some cases it can be closer to a year.

[James40]

If Hinkie's the genius that many claim him to be then it's not a huge problem, it's next man up, or maybe Hinkie wants to tank awhile longer. Who knows at this point, because we all know it's not just a foot problem with Embiid anyway.

[Unbreakable99]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JeffSkversky/status/610181246552047617[/tweet]

Apparently no second surgery necessary, so that is some good news, I think.

That is great news. If he needs a second surgery I will truly panic, and will become decidedly less optimistic.

Even that wouldn't be a death sentence, but that would be a major blow to his chances, and would completely demoralize me.


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The thing that scares me is that he has fluid-filled cysts where healthy bone should be. Space gets taken up by such things without providing support for normal NBA wear-and-tear. The problem is if he has them, what will get accomplished by creating another clean break (remember first break was clean and that is supposed to be a good, fast-healing case) and hoping for it to heal correctly and in the right time-frame?

Some med student on reddit linked this article:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0101/p85.h ... 0101p85-b1

...and quoted the text below:

Radiologic follow-up is not useful in most circumstances. Plain films are not sensitive enough to detect subtle changes in most cases and delay the clinical picture significantly. Bone scans can remain abnormal for up to two years after clinical healing. CT scanning can reveal significant loss of bony mineralization, sclerosis, notching of the proximal articular surface, and subchondral cysts even in a normal healing fracture; it is, therefore, unreliable as a guide to follow-up.

But Hinkie has already made comments to the effect that this will change the schedule for Embiid and, if you don't believe the conspiracy theories, there were either other reasons to be concerned about the CT scan. Either that or the scan result was quite dramatic.

This very well may be true but we don't know if he has fluid filled cysts. This is all speculation at this point. But this is good info. Thanks.

[Ericb5]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JeffSkversky/status/610181246552047617[/tweet]

Apparently no second surgery necessary, so that is some good news, I think.

That is great news. If he needs a second surgery I will truly panic, and will become decidedly less optimistic.

Even that wouldn't be a death sentence, but that would be a major blow to his chances, and would completely demoralize me.


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The thing that scares me is that he has fluid-filled cysts where healthy bone should be. Space gets taken up by such things without providing support for normal NBA wear-and-tear. The problem is if he has them, what will get accomplished by creating another clean break (remember first break was clean and that is supposed to be a good, fast-healing case) and hoping for it to heal correctly and in the right time-frame?

Some med student on reddit linked this article:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0101/p85.h ... 0101p85-b1

...and quoted the text below:

Radiologic follow-up is not useful in most circumstances. Plain films are not sensitive enough to detect subtle changes in most cases and delay the clinical picture significantly. Bone scans can remain abnormal for up to two years after clinical healing. CT scanning can reveal significant loss of bony mineralization, sclerosis, notching of the proximal articular surface, and subchondral cysts even in a normal healing fracture; it is, therefore, unreliable as a guide to follow-up.

But Hinkie has already made comments to the effect that this will change the schedule for Embiid and, if you don't believe the conspiracy theories, there were either other reasons to be concerned about the CT scan. Either that or the scan result was quite dramatic.

The fact that it changes the schedule of his recovery could be easily explained by caution. Just because we are going to be cautious doesn't mean that the medics conditions that you explained are what we are dealing with.

Great medical info, but this is conjecture, and we don't actually know what his medical condition is.


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[Unbreakable99]

@gonzoCSN: League source: Too early to know one way or other if Joel Embiid will require surgery. Sixers still gathering info. Hasn’t been ruled out

[marcush]

I gotta admit, I don't flinch when they trade Thad or MCW, draft and stash Saric, any of Hinkie's other so called crazy trades, but whenever a negative report comes out about Embiid I do actually freak out a bit.

Embiid really is so central to my idea of getting difference makers that it pales everything else into insignificance. I mean, considering we don't appear to be pursuing free agency and trades for difference makers, it really just leaves the draft. He really has to nail some of these lottery picks, or...how the **** will we actually get these players here?

Yep sure, chicken little etc....

Maybe I just need to realign my expectations.....

[TigerInYourTank]

^^^ Guys, there are not really very many possibilities, here, and they are available to anyone with Google. If you want to provide something factual to contest one of these possibilities, please do, but calling this "speculation" and "conjecture" is kind of a waste of a post. Thanks.

[Ericb5]

I gotta admit, I don't flinch when they trade Thad or MCW, draft and stash Saric, any of Hinkie's other so called crazy trades, but whenever a negative report comes out about Embiid I do actually freak out a bit.

Embiid really is so central to my idea of getting difference makers that it pales everything else into insignificance. I mean, considering we don't appear to be pursuing free agency and trades for difference makers, it really just leaves the draft. He really has to nail some of these lottery picks, or...how the **** will we actually get these players here?

Yep sure, chicken little etc....

Maybe I just need to realign my expectations.....

I feel the same way. Embiid is the only real difference maker that we have. The rest of the guys are supportive of that, but Embiid is the most important thing to the franchise.


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[Unbreakable99]

^^^ Guys, there are not really very many possibilities, here, and they are available to anyone with Google. If you want to provide something factual to contest one of these possibilities, please do, but calling this "speculation" and "conjecture" is kind of a waste of a post. Thanks.

It is speculation. You don't know all the facts. You say things as though it's 100% true. Thanks.

[TigerInYourTank]

^^^ Guys, there are not really very many possibilities, here, and they are available to anyone with Google. If you want to provide something factual to contest one of these possibilities, please do, but calling this "speculation" and "conjecture" is kind of a waste of a post. Thanks.

It is speculation. You don't know all the facts. You say things as though it's 100% true. Thanks.

And where have I stated something 100%? Thanks.

[James40]

Embiid is/was the centerpiece. Lets not try to rewrite that part of this.

If he is unable to go or be good...that is a massive setback. I like Noel..but he isn't a star that leads teams. Russell, Mudiay, and perhaps Kristaps isnt that either. Even if Noel, Saric, whoever is good...I don't feel ATM that they have star potential...so we are right back where we started or yet again tanking...and that sucks.

Obviously Embiid busting would be a disaster.

Where have you been that you feel that you need to make that point now?

We NEVER would have been able to draft him at 3 if there wasn't a real chance that he would medically bust.

Nobody is arguing that we will be fine if he busts. We are arguing that, even with that bust potential, he was the right pick last year, plus we still don't know anything about the condition of his foot that makes him more likely to bust today than what we knew back then.



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He has been here the whole time, he like myself and a few others were extremely skeptical of the Embiid pick, and I'm sorry but if Embiid doesn't play for the Sixers, or plays 40-50 games a year then yes it was the wrong pick.

Those of us who didn't love the Embiid pick was because of two reasons
1. Injury history.
2. Wanting to see the Sixers trying to win some games.

That doesn't make either side wrong yet.....

[MRxBLACK]

I would offer the TWolves all our picks this year and next year for the #1 pick. Noel/Towns would be an amazing duo. It looks like a long shot we will be able to rely on Embiid.

[MRxBLACK]

Embiid is/was the centerpiece. Lets not try to rewrite that part of this.

If he is unable to go or be good...that is a massive setback. I like Noel..but he isn't a star that leads teams. Russell, Mudiay, and perhaps Kristaps isnt that either. Even if Noel, Saric, whoever is good...I don't feel ATM that they have star potential...so we are right back where we started or yet again tanking...and that sucks.

Obviously Embiid busting would be a disaster.

Where have you been that you feel that you need to make that point now?

We NEVER would have been able to draft him at 3 if there wasn't a real chance that he would medically bust.

Nobody is arguing that we will be fine if he busts. We are arguing that, even with that bust potential, he was the right pick last year, plus we still don't know anything about the condition of his foot that makes him more likely to bust today than what we knew back then.



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He has been here the whole time, he like myself and a few others were extremely skeptical of the Embiid pick, and I'm sorry but if Embiid doesn't play for the Sixers, or plays 40-50 games a year then yes it was the wrong pick.

Those of us who didn't love the Embiid pick was because of two reasons
1. Injury history.
2. Wanting to see the Sixers trying to win some games.

That doesn't make either side wrong yet.....

We didn't pass up anyone in the draft though. Gordon/Exum/Smart could be nice players, but are hardly franchise changers.