Okafor trade talk: Will he be traded by the deadline?

[youngcrev]

Jrue vs. Lowry aside, if BC's plan is to give up assets to trade for Jrue a few months before he becomes an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT, then he's even dumber than the worst caricatures of him. That would be a colossally stupid give away of precious assets that took a lot of time and sacrifice to obtain. I can't understand how anyone can support that.

If we're shipping out assets, it should be for a star player who is locked up on a long-term contract. Not a guy we can sign for just money in 3 months.

I agree that it's not the best idea in the world to give up assets for him now while also screwing with your ping pong balls. Considering the large sum of money Jrue's going to receive this summer, I could understand wanting to see how he fits beforehand though.

[Arsenal]

Jrue vs. Lowry aside, if BC's plan is to give up assets to trade for Jrue a few months before he becomes an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT, then he's even dumber than the worst caricatures of him. That would be a colossally stupid give away of precious assets that took a lot of time and sacrifice to obtain. I can't understand how anyone can support that.

If we're shipping out assets, it should be for a star player who is locked up on a long-term contract. Not a guy we can sign for just money in 3 months.

I agree that it's not the best idea in the world to give up assets for him now while also screwing with your ping pong balls. Considering the large sum of money Jrue's going to receive this summer, I could understand wanting to see how he fits beforehand though.

I'll just say this. One of the reasons we got rid of that nerd Hinkie and brought in REAL "Basketball Guys" like Jerry and Bryan Colangelo is because these guys are supposed to be able to figure out how a guy like Jrue would fit into a team.

That's a major part of their damn job, so they better be able to figure it out without burning up assets for a 2 month tryout.

[51X3RF4N]

Jrue vs. Lowry aside, if BC's plan is to give up assets to trade for Jrue a few months before he becomes an UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT, then he's even dumber than the worst caricatures of him. That would be a colossally stupid give away of precious assets that took a lot of time and sacrifice to obtain. I can't understand how anyone can support that.

If we're shipping out assets, it should be for a star player who is locked up on a long-term contract. Not a guy we can sign for just money in 3 months.

I agree that it's not the best idea in the world to give up assets for him now while also screwing with your ping pong balls. Considering the large sum of money Jrue's going to receive this summer, I could understand wanting to see how he fits beforehand though.

I'll just say this. One of the reasons we got rid of that nerd Hinkie and brought in REAL "Basketball Guys" like Jerry and Bryan Colangelo is because these guys are supposed to be able to figure out how a guy like Jrue would fit into a team.

That's a major part of their damn job, so they better be able to figure it out without burning up assets for a 2 month tryout.

I think it goes further than that. Not only is it a tryout from an on-court standpoint, but also a tryout to see if Jrue and Brett can get along and be on the same page, if Jrue and the team come together and form friendships, etc. I understand they are all professionals and should not have a problem getting along, or whatever, but that doesn't mean those things don't exist. Having him in the locker room, around the team, and coaches, while having a chance to evaluate him with all your sports science medicine things for 2 months is a great way to know if he's going to be a key piece in the future contention of this team or not.

And, it's also helpful to address this before the draft, so you know where you stand on draft picks as "assets" or needing to draft for a specific position. Not to mention, what is given up in the deal is up for debate as to whether or not it is considered "substance". I don't consider the handful of 2nd round picks we have to be substance, so if any of those are included that's fine. If any of the BIG assets (LAL pick, PHI pick's in 17, 18, 19, SAC 19 pick, Saric, TLC, Holmes, etc) are included then yeah I won't be happy about it. But at the same time it's a long term move, not a short sighted move. Who's to say you can actually sign him in the off-season? Maybe trading for him and having him on the team, even for a small amount of time, motivates him to want to re-sign here as opposed to testing the market. I keep reading that if the Sixers traded for him, they would have his "rights" or something like that, meaning they would be much more likely to retain him than if they just tried to go get him and pitch him a free agent contract.

Also, if the plan is to spend big in the off-season on other free agent targets, I also read that the Sixers could sign other players first, and then "re-sign" Jrue to a larger offer and go over the cap in doing so. If he was strictly a free agent, it would limit their ability to sign multiple big deals.

I could be wrong on that, but if that is true then it's not really all that bad of a reason to go make the deal now, even if it costs you some minor assets.

[HotelVitale]

Maybe trading for him and having him on the team, even for a small amount of time, motivates him to want to re-sign here as opposed to testing the market. I keep reading that if the Sixers traded for him, they would have his "rights" or something like that, meaning they would be much more likely to retain him than if they just tried to go get him and pitch him a free agent contract.

Or the opposite could happen, where the team seems too young or he doesn't get along perfectly with Brown or BC or whatever else. There's no guarantee that he likes us to begin with, and I honestly don't see much benefit in bringing him over now. Maybe if we were a better team about to go on a playoff run or something, but not as is.

Also, in case you're unclear on what rights people are referring to, those are Bird rights, which allow a team that already has a player to sign him even if it means going over the cap. Given that the Sixers are like $60M+ under the cap, that won't be relevant. In any case, the rights only relate to cap space; he's an unrestricted free agent so we would have zero right to restrict him leaving if he wants to go.

[51X3RF4N]

Maybe trading for him and having him on the team, even for a small amount of time, motivates him to want to re-sign here as opposed to testing the market. I keep reading that if the Sixers traded for him, they would have his "rights" or something like that, meaning they would be much more likely to retain him than if they just tried to go get him and pitch him a free agent contract.

Or the opposite could happen, where the team seems too young or he doesn't get along perfectly with Brown or BC or whatever else. There's no guarantee that he likes us to begin with, and I honestly don't see much benefit in bringing him over now. Maybe if we were a better team about to go on a playoff run or something, but not as is.

Also, in case you're unclear on what rights people are referring to, those are Bird rights, which allow a team that already has a player to sign him even if it means going over the cap. Given that the Sixers are like $60M+ under the cap, that won't be relevant. In any case, the rights only relate to cap space; he's an unrestricted free agent so we would have zero right to restrict him leaving if he wants to go.

you just proved my point. If the opposite does happen, then you've avoided paying him big money in free agency and having him on a long term deal, and having to go through all the ups and downs of finding out that he in fact, does not want to be here. Then you've got to find a trade partner and you've wasted likely half a season trying to make something work that isn't going to work. Having this 2 months "trial" without going overboard in what you give up to make it happen, would provide those answers. And if it doesn't work out, then he leaves and you move on knowing that you avoided a big mistake in free agency, and hopefully still have most of the major assets in play. It's a calculated gamble that the value of those assets isn't going to pay off over time, as well as Jrue would if it DOES work out. If it doesn't work out, then that's where the gamble comes in. But, the Sixers have SO much dang house money right now, it's worth the risk for the potential payoff, which is a perfect complementary guard to pair with Simmons and accelerate the process by half a season.

[Sixerscan]

If okafor isn't worth a real 2018 first round pick then he wouldn't really be giving up an asset for holiday.

Maybe he thinks he can extend holiday before the season ends with cap space.

Either way this seems like it's dead for now.

[HotelVitale]

It's a calculated gamble that the value of those assets isn't going to pay off over time, as well as Jrue would if it DOES work out. If it doesn't work out, then that's where the gamble comes in. But, the Sixers have SO much dang house money right now, it's worth the risk for the potential payoff, which is a perfect complementary guard to pair with Simmons and accelerate the process by half a season.

I think you're outsmarting yourself and taking a clever route to a bad position, here's a few reasons why.

First, the risk of offering Jrue a contract isn't going to go away if he plays pretty well and likes Embiid and Brett Brown etc. We know he's a pretty good player when healthy, the problems are that he's injury-prone and will cost a ton of money--despite being at best an average starter (albeit one who on paper fits well). That calculation doesn't change one bit depending on whatever Jrue does in March and April of this season.

Second, (and related), we won't really know if he's a long term fit with our 'core' because a) we don't know who a third of our future core is (they're not on the team yet) and b) another third of our core is rookies who will play very differently when they mature. Those 'answers' you're talking about won't materialize because of #1 or #2.

Third, the real question is about what Jrue wants; since he will likely have multiple options, he has the choice here, not us. If, in your eyes trading for him doesn't greatly increase the chances he prefers us, then we're not helping what seems like by far the most important element.

Fourth, the Sixers don't have any 'house money'--they have a limited number of assets, even if it seems like there's a lot of them now. Trading off a decent asset for a test period of a UFA--during the last couple months of a losing season, with probably a third of our lineup next year not playing with him--is weird, and there's a reason that bad teams basically never do that.

[KKell2507]

Something else just clicked with me as a possibility as well, and it honestly scares the hell out of me more than anything. What if BC is planning to go Ape **** in Free Agency and spend ALL of our cap space?

For example, start out throwing crap loads of money to the RFA like Otto Porter or KCP and see if he can pry them from their current teams. Then throw big money to the borderline all stars like Millsap, Ibaka, Hayward, Gallinari. Then with whatever money is left, try to get a shooter like JJ or Korver to come.

Get some of those guys to stick and suddenly our cap space is gone. Well in BC's eyes luckily we traded for Jrue already so we can now go over the cap to re-sign him. And can re-sign Noel too.

Now this option terrifies the living **** out of me. But I could see this as being the way BC goes from making us where we are to a playoff competitor. Well see how good BC can pitch Philly to the Free Agents. But a lineup of something like(not necessarily these exact names but you get the idea):

Holiday/Bayless/McConnell
Redick/Covington/Stauskas
Simmons/Josh Jackson/TLC
Ibaka/Saric/2nd rd pick?
Embiid/Noel/Holmes

Now obviously it would all depend on how much these guys command as to which names we could actually get, but we've got more cap space this offseason than anyone else in the league. I would not at all be surprised to see BC go out and spend damn near all of it. Having Jrue and his bird rights already in his back pocket would give BC more flexibility to blow the cap space on other people. Its terrifying I know, but something we may need to brace ourselves for.

[ET Da Gawd]

Tank for years to get a wack point guard back? What has Jrue shown?? lol this is a load of crap I'm seeing on here...people are excited about the return of a low energy PG? what has he done in a NO? He's not a #1, this is flabbergasting, tank for almost 4 years to bank our franchise on Simmons (broken foot, cant shoot), Embiid (broken foot, severely injury prone) & Holiday (broken leg)?? what? This is supposed to be the start of a dynasty? lmfaooo BC has proven to me he's the same idiot he was on TOR, thank god Ujiri came there and cleaned up his pile of basura.

Y'all enjoy man, Why in the hell would I waste another 10+yrs of fanship when we can't even commit to a true rebuild. Y'all better pray Jojo and them stay healthy

P.S. for all these "basketball guys" on here, one player literally making up for 99% of the perimeter players getting beat is not good defense, thats why we ass when jojo not in..not to mention, No Hands Noel gonna get 90+million and he hasn't bench pressed in 3+ years...idk what you guys see as roots for a long lasting dynasty, BC gonna run the team into the ground and it'll be square one again. Shocking that Nik, Roco, TJ, Noel survived this long, have fun, Im done with this franchise..last post, y'all probably happy to see me go anyways lol

[PaulGaston]

Tank for years to get a wack point guard back? What has Jrue shown?? lol this is a load of crap I'm seeing on here...people are excited about the return of a low energy PG? what has he done in a NO? He's not a #1, this is flabbergasting, tank for almost 4 years to bank our franchise on Simmons (broken foot, cant shoot), Embiid (broken foot, severely injury prone) & Holiday (broken leg)?? what? This is supposed to be the start of a dynasty? lmfaooo BC has proven to me he's the same idiot he was on TOR, thank god Ujiri came there and cleaned up his pile of basura.

Y'all enjoy man, Why in the hell would I waste another 10+yrs of fanship when we can't even commit to a true rebuild. Y'all better pray Jojo and them stay healthy

P.S. for all these "basketball guys" on here, one player literally making up for 99% of the perimeter players getting beat is not good defense, thats why we ass when jojo not in..not to mention, No Hands Noel gonna get 90+million and he hasn't bench pressed in 3+ years...idk what you guys see as roots for a long lasting dynasty, BC gonna run the team into the ground and it'll be square one again. Shocking that Nik, Roco, TJ, Noel survived this long, have fun, Im done with this franchise..last post, y'all probably happy to see me go anyways lol

Not a fan of Jrue? I wouldn't worry about it. The main rumors suggested you guys were on the verge of taking a lotto protected 2018 1st and a bad contract for Okafor. The pick probably wouldn't convey. So maybe it would turn into two future 2nd round picks. If that's the offer, ya'll would be very lucky to get Jrue Holiday instead. As bad as Okafor has been, it's highly unlikely any guy you take outside of the lotto will have anything near the potential of Jahlil Okafor.

[jbent87]

Something else just clicked with me as a possibility as well, and it honestly scares the hell out of me more than anything. What if BC is planning to go Ape **** in Free Agency and spend ALL of our cap space?

For example, start out throwing crap loads of money to the RFA like Otto Porter or KCP and see if he can pry them from their current teams. Then throw big money to the borderline all stars like Millsap, Ibaka, Hayward, Gallinari. Then with whatever money is left, try to get a shooter like JJ or Korver to come.

Get some of those guys to stick and suddenly our cap space is gone. Well in BC's eyes luckily we traded for Jrue already so we can now go over the cap to re-sign him. And can re-sign Noel too.

Now this option terrifies the living **** out of me. But I could see this as being the way BC goes from making us where we are to a playoff competitor. Well see how good BC can pitch Philly to the Free Agents. But a lineup of something like(not necessarily these exact names but you get the idea):

Holiday/Bayless/McConnell
Redick/Covington/Stauskas
Simmons/Josh Jackson/TLC
Ibaka/Saric/2nd rd pick?
Embiid/Noel/Holmes

Now obviously it would all depend on how much these guys command as to which names we could actually get, but we've got more cap space this offseason than anyone else in the league. I would not at all be surprised to see BC go out and spend damn near all of it. Having Jrue and his bird rights already in his back pocket would give BC more flexibility to blow the cap space on other people. Its terrifying I know, but something we may need to brace ourselves for.

I don't think that should scare the life out of you^ - That roster makeup is the perfect template for this team. Simmons/Embiid pick and roll/pick and pop and then kick it to shooters when the D collapses on Embiid. While Ibaka doesn't fit the core bc of his age, his type of player fits our need at that position (stretch 4). JJ Reddick is a lights out shooter. Jrue can score off the ball and can D up opposing teams PGs when Simmons has to return back to SF/PF. All of those "new" guys will be making a little more than we'd prefer (Jrue, JJ, Ibaka) but they are near perfect fits as far as the team makeup goes.

[LloydFree]

Tank for years to get a wack point guard back? What has Jrue shown?? lol this is a load of crap I'm seeing on here...people are excited about the return of a low energy PG? what has he done in a NO? He's not a #1, this is flabbergasting, tank for almost 4 years to bank our franchise on Simmons (broken foot, cant shoot), Embiid (broken foot, severely injury prone) & Holiday (broken leg)?? what? This is supposed to be the start of a dynasty? lmfaooo BC has proven to me he's the same idiot he was on TOR, thank god Ujiri came there and cleaned up his pile of basura.

Y'all enjoy man, Why in the hell would I waste another 10+yrs of fanship when we can't even commit to a true rebuild. Y'all better pray Jojo and them stay healthy

P.S. for all these "basketball guys" on here, one player literally making up for 99% of the perimeter players getting beat is not good defense, thats why we ass when jojo not in..not to mention, No Hands Noel gonna get 90+million and he hasn't bench pressed in 3+ years...idk what you guys see as roots for a long lasting dynasty, BC gonna run the team into the ground and it'll be square one again. Shocking that Nik, Roco, TJ, Noel survived this long, have fun, Im done with this franchise..last post, y'all probably happy to see me go anyways lol

Not a fan of Jrue? I wouldn't worry about it. The main rumors suggested you guys were on the verge of taking a lotto protected 2018 1st and a bad contract for Okafor. The pick probably wouldn't convey. So maybe it would turn into two future 2nd round picks. If that's the offer, ya'll would be very lucky to get Jrue Holiday instead. As bad as Okafor has been, it's highly unlikely any guy you take outside of the lotto will have anything near the potential of Jahlil Okafor.

What? The 76ers took Richaun Holmes and Willie Hernangomez in the 2nd round in 2015 and they're both better than Okafor.

[KKell2507]

Something else just clicked with me as a possibility as well, and it honestly scares the hell out of me more than anything. What if BC is planning to go Ape **** in Free Agency and spend ALL of our cap space?

For example, start out throwing crap loads of money to the RFA like Otto Porter or KCP and see if he can pry them from their current teams. Then throw big money to the borderline all stars like Millsap, Ibaka, Hayward, Gallinari. Then with whatever money is left, try to get a shooter like JJ or Korver to come.

Get some of those guys to stick and suddenly our cap space is gone. Well in BC's eyes luckily we traded for Jrue already so we can now go over the cap to re-sign him. And can re-sign Noel too.

Now this option terrifies the living **** out of me. But I could see this as being the way BC goes from making us where we are to a playoff competitor. Well see how good BC can pitch Philly to the Free Agents. But a lineup of something like(not necessarily these exact names but you get the idea):

Holiday/Bayless/McConnell
Redick/Covington/Stauskas
Simmons/Josh Jackson/TLC
Ibaka/Saric/2nd rd pick?
Embiid/Noel/Holmes

Now obviously it would all depend on how much these guys command as to which names we could actually get, but we've got more cap space this offseason than anyone else in the league. I would not at all be surprised to see BC go out and spend damn near all of it. Having Jrue and his bird rights already in his back pocket would give BC more flexibility to blow the cap space on other people. Its terrifying I know, but something we may need to brace ourselves for.

I don't think that should scare the life out of you^ - That roster makeup is the perfect template for this team. Simmons/Embiid pick and roll/pick and pop and then kick it to shooters when the D collapses on Embiid. While Ibaka doesn't fit the core bc of his age, his type of player fits our need at that position (stretch 4). JJ Reddick is a lights out shooter. Jrue can score off the ball and can D up opposing teams PGs when Simmons has to return back to SF/PF. All of those "new" guys will be making a little more than we'd prefer (Jrue, JJ, Ibaka) but they are near perfect fits as far as the team makeup goes.

It scares the hell out of me because of the approach to what BC could do, not necessarily the players i mentioned. I picked the exact guys I would want as my example, so if that is the exact team we end up with Id certainly be ok with it, and would look forward to competing for home court in the 1st round next season with that roster. Only thing that scares the hell out of me is BC spending all of that money on the wrong players.

PS - Ibaka is only 9 months older than Jrue Holiday, so his age shouldnt really matter anymore than Jrue's does.

[Kobblehead]

Serge Ibaka's age is a complete unknown. Many people theorize that he could be up to 5 years older than we think.

[51X3RF4N]

First, the risk of offering Jrue a contract isn't going to go away if he plays pretty well and likes Embiid and Brett Brown etc. We know he's a pretty good player when healthy, the problems are that he's injury-prone and will cost a ton of money--despite being at best an average starter (albeit one who on paper fits well). That calculation doesn't change one bit depending on whatever Jrue does in March and April of this season.

Someone else pointed this out- but last year he played 65 games. He missed some back to backs early in the season as part of the recovery on his injury from the prior year. And then got elbowed in the eye (not really an "injury prone" type of injury) which caused him to miss 9 games at the end of the season.

This season, he missed some games early due to being there for his sick wife, which isn't a recurring problem or "injury prone" thing again.

Also, in his first 4 years in the league, he played in 95.5% of his games.

He literally had 2 seasons where he only played half the games, and it was due to the same stress fracture in his leg. So, 1 legit "injury" total that held him out, and NOP thought he could come back instead of opting for surgery, which was then forced later.

I really don't think it's fair to call him "injury prone" in any way. He's actually played in 78.60% of the games during his career. I wouldn't call that injury prone. I would call it unfortunate that the injury he suffered in 2013 wasn't addressed properly the first time around, and it caused him to miss more time. I would call it unfortunate that he got elbowed in the eye and it forced him to sit the last 9 games of a season. And I'd call it extremely unfortunate about his wife. Injury PRONE though? No.

As for cost, if we pay him $20M/year, at least we aren't paying Timofey Mozgov $20M/year. - I know this isn't a great counter-argument, I'm just pointing out there are worse places to spend that money.

As for point 2 - assuming your "core" group consists of 8 guys who will take up the most playoff minutes on a competitive roster...we know Simmons, Embiid, Saric, and TLC will MOST LIKELY be a part of that core group. Adding in Jrue makes 5/8. Even if you want to take TLC out of the equation, that's still a solid 4 who could arguably be considered "our core". Future or otherwise, if you sign Jrue to a 4 year deal, your next 4 years of "core group" guys are definitely Embiid/Simmons/Saric/Jrue. So, that's half of the core. I don't care about how the rookies will play in 2 years when they mature. That will be defined by how they develop. Who can help in that development? A veteran combo guard like Jrue? Yes. So, you've got 4-5 out of your 8 man "core" on the squad, and you know what helps in determining who the rest of the "core" will be? Knowing you've got 4 starters already locked in, and seeing them play together so you can analyze the team's strengths and weaknesses.

Third- you've got a solid point, i can concede this one.

Fourth- I've said I would do it if there was a pick or something coming back as well. And I've said I wouldn't include picks except for 2nd rounders with Okafor for it.

[aHealthy3]

As negative as the sentiment surrounding Jah is right now, I think for a lot of teams in the league, they're actually making a decent value play if they can acquire him for something like a lotto-protected first (at best). Yeah he's extremely flawed, but he's still a 21 year old big who's already shown that he can score pretty efficiently, 1.5 years removed from being a 3rd overall pick with tons of room to improve.

I'm not making the case that we should keep Jah. We should try to get that protection maybe lowered to top 10 (which, if this is what happens, kind of ruins the point I'm making), but I'm fine with getting rid of him for a lotto protected 1st at this point too. All I'm saying is that the proposition of trading for Jah right now as a random middling team (assuming it won't block any minutes of a good young big) has become kind of an underrated, buy-low, Hinkie-like low risk shot in the dark.

Like if you think about it, most of the negative sentiment surrounding Jah stems from the fact that he was the #3 overall pick. Yeah from that perspective he freaking sucks, but in a vacuum, there's still some value there. For example, a big like Bobby Portis who's been meh in limited opportunity, doesn't have anywhere near the negative sentiment surround him that Jah does, despite his trade value actually probably being less than Jah's.

[Kobblehead]

As negative as the sentiment surrounding Jah is right now, I think for a lot of teams in the league, they're actually making a decent value play if they can acquire him for something like a lotto-protected first (at best). Yeah he's extremely flawed, but he's still a 21 year old big who's already shown that he can score pretty efficiently, 1.5 years removed from being a 3rd overall pick with tons of room to improve.

I'm not making the case that we should keep Jah. We should try to get that protection maybe lowered to top 10 (which, if this is what happens, kind of ruins the point I'm making), but I'm fine with getting rid of him for a lotto protected 1st at this point too. All I'm saying is that the proposition of trading for Jah right now as a random middling team (assuming it won't block any minutes of a good young big) has become kind of an underrated, buy-low, Hinkie-like low risk shot in the dark.

If this was the NFL, would Jah be the type of player Bill Belichick would try to snag at low value with the hope of salvaging him?

Or is he so inherently flawed as a C prospect, and coupled with his low motor and poor passion, that he wouldn't even be appealing to him?

[Arsenal]

We need to move Okafor by the trade deadline. His value will only go down this year if we keep him past then.

Alexis Ajinca + 2018 Lotto Protected Pelicans 1st is fine as long as the protections decrease over time (e.g. top 10 2019, top 5 2020, unprotected 2021).

[aHealthy3]

As negative as the sentiment surrounding Jah is right now, I think for a lot of teams in the league, they're actually making a decent value play if they can acquire him for something like a lotto-protected first (at best). Yeah he's extremely flawed, but he's still a 21 year old big who's already shown that he can score pretty efficiently, 1.5 years removed from being a 3rd overall pick with tons of room to improve.

I'm not making the case that we should keep Jah. We should try to get that protection maybe lowered to top 10 (which, if this is what happens, kind of ruins the point I'm making), but I'm fine with getting rid of him for a lotto protected 1st at this point too. All I'm saying is that the proposition of trading for Jah right now as a random middling team (assuming it won't block any minutes of a good young big) has become kind of an underrated, buy-low, Hinkie-like low risk shot in the dark.

If this was the NFL, would Jah be the type of player Bill Belichick would try to snag at low value with the hope of salvaging him?

Or is he so inherently flawed as a C prospect, and coupled with his low motor and poor passion, that he wouldn't even be appealing to him?

Yeah maybe, although I can't see a team competing for a title right now (like the Spurs, if you want to draw that Belichick-Pop parallel) having interest in him. He's more like a project value add best suited for a middling team.

[SparksFly87]

Trade him and get it over with Jesus!