Around the League - 2019-2020

[VDT]

This is just a weird conversation, Butler goes to work offensively during the hardest time of the game, the 4th quarter, and more importantly the last few minutes of a close game when the other team IS trying to slow him down as much as possible but you don't think he couldn't put up a few more shots during the game if he really felt he needed to average 25-30 points? Like I've mentioned, when the Miami press was questioning his scoring ability he put up a 30 point half THIS season. He's put up a 40 point half when he was at Chicago(2 pts 1st half, 40 in the 2nd) but he doesn't care about scoring unless the team needs it, like the end of gams, he cares about winning and it's a hell of a lot easy to win if his teammates are in the flow of the game and contributing like they can. He "could" force a few more shots per game(say 3 more per half) and average mid 20s to the high 20s in scoring and to you that would change how good he is? It wouldn't for me.

Butler has never been a high volume scorer, always hovering around 20ppg (including in the playoffs) on an above average (but nothing to write home about) efficiency, even though he played on teams that could use some extra scoring. There is not much to suggest that he could up his scoring volume without sacrificing efficiency. Watching him, he struggles to create quality shots and scores a lot through hustle plays and drawing fouls. Against the Bucks he struggled to do anything against Matthews to the point that the Heat had t run multiple screens to get him going. His main assets are his mentality, savvy and ability to make plays for others not his scoring prowess.

On Chicago, they had a horrible roster that last year with Butler, Rondo got benched and only started a handful of games, he had the shell of D.Wade there(they overpaid since he was a Chicago kid, this was right after they traded Rose), R.Lopez and T.Gibson was their front line that couldn't score, Mirotic was out a lot of that season and Paul Zipser started at SF most of those games(probably don't know much about Paul Zipser, that's the point). The way Chicago went into rebuilding mode was to trade Butler because he carried that franchise into the playoffs. That year D.Wade was released and couldn't even stick with Cleveland for depth as a minimum vet. Chicago's just a horrible franchise who only cared about the bottom dollar, hopefully, ownership changes or gets smarter there(getting rid of Gar was a good start).

Chicago's been a #$)(%#$ organization for 25+ years, hell even with Jordan there it was hard to get management to spend money, they've hired only ONE head coach with any experience as an NBA head coach those 25+ years(S.Skiles). Some owners are just detrimental to their franchise(Chicago, Minnesota, Phoenix) and that's why they're almost always bad and then there are some owners who just get it(Miami, Lakers, Dallas, Boston, SA, Portland) where most of them let their people actually guide the franchise.

That's fine but he is still a guy that at 31 has only had one conference finals appearance (in a weird year with lots of surprises in the playoffs) and still averages 18ppg in the playoffs. He is a good player,he is not a legend, playoff monster etc. That's my point.

[76ciology]

If the reports are true and brand wanted to trade simmons last year and keep butler and get a new coach, we would be in the finals this year.

Link?

For all I’ve read this franchise worships Ben.

Collargate even said Ben wouldn’t go to our team if Sixers didn’t replace Hinkie with Colangelo.

[youngcrev]

Agree with AirP.

I dont think it’s mental. It’s not a “Fultz” thing. When it comes to Ben, he’s protecting his branding.

Hurting his FG% or reducing his role to be on the dunker spot won’t help him be All NBA third team member.

Based on Ben’s FT numbers, it’s likely that he would be a horrible 3pt shooter if he jack it up.

The key for these entitled kids is to stop cuddling them up and give them big responsibilities so they will feel that they still needs a lot of growing to do in order to carry their load. Until then, there’s no pressure for Ben to practice his shooting.

Fultz mental block manifested physically, so yeah, obviously it's not the same thing (nobody said it was). Ben's has manifested though avoidance. He actively avoids even being in position to take a spot up 3. Fear of failure is absolutely a mental thing.

[AirP.]

Butler has never been a high volume scorer, always hovering around 20ppg (including in the playoffs) on an above average (but nothing to write home about) efficiency, even though he played on teams that could use some extra scoring. There is not much to suggest that he could up his scoring volume without sacrificing efficiency. Watching him, he struggles to create quality shots and scores a lot through hustle plays and drawing fouls. Against the Bucks he struggled to do anything against Matthews to the point that the Heat had t run multiple screens to get him going. His main assets are his mentality, savvy and ability to make plays for others not his scoring prowess.

That's fine but he is still a guy that at 31 has only had one conference finals appearance (in a weird year with lots of surprises in the playoffs) and still averages 18ppg in the playoffs. He is a good player,he is not a legend, playoff monster etc. That's my point.

Didn't say he's a legend, I do believe his style of play makes him a playoff monster, sorry he doesn't jack up 20 shots a night to satisfy your PPG needs. I've never considered him a top 5 player, top 8-12 player absolutely and sure.

BTW... playing high level defense, coming up with game winning/saving plays on offense and defense while also scoring 20 ppg in the playoffs is actually something to write home about.

[AirP.]

If the reports are true and brand wanted to trade simmons last year and keep butler and get a new coach, we would be in the finals this year.

Link?

For all I’ve read this franchise worships Ben.

Collargate even said Ben wouldn’t go to our team if Sixers didn’t replace Hinkie with Colangelo.

Although I would have absolutely traded Simmons last year(and get a new coach) to build up a team around Embiid and Butler, I could see that other people in the organization sees the current direction of the league and are more interested long term in building around Simmons.

The big problem for Simmons and Embiid playing together, you can only put 3 good shooters around him and turning Embiid into an average 3pt shooting big(for Simmons' benifit) basically takes away his incredible advantage near the basket.

[sixerswillrule]

The starting PFs in the East are Jayson Tatum and Jae Crowder.

Remember when people said we shouldn't have Simmons playing PF defensively? That he could be at a size/strength disadvantage?

[AirP.]

The starting PFs in the East are Jayson Tatum and Jae Crowder.

Remember when people said we shouldn't have Simmons playing PF defensively? That he could be at a size/strength disadvantage?

You could have Simmons playing center because so many other teams have went smaller, you just have to have enough quick guys who can shoot 3s to make the other team not be able to play a traditional big.

[Sixerscan]

The starting PFs in the East are Jayson Tatum and Jae Crowder.

Remember when people said we shouldn't have Simmons playing PF defensively? That he could be at a size/strength disadvantage?

You could have Simmons playing center because so many other teams have went smaller, you just have to have enough quick guys who can shoot 3s to make the other team not be able to play a traditional big.

Would work against some teams but not anyone you need to beat.

[AirP.]

The starting PFs in the East are Jayson Tatum and Jae Crowder.

Remember when people said we shouldn't have Simmons playing PF defensively? That he could be at a size/strength disadvantage?

You could have Simmons playing center because so many other teams have went smaller, you just have to have enough quick guys who can shoot 3s to make the other team not be able to play a traditional big.

Would work against some teams but not anyone you need to beat.

You don't think he could bulk up a little bit in the offseason and basically be a better passing Bam? He's really not all that far off from being the same size as Bam and he looks to be more athletic. As he gets older he'll probably add some strength/bulk anyways.

You can't envision Simmons excelling doing the same things as Bam is currently doing with all those shooters around him(including 1 more than he's had on the floor since he'd be the center, not Embiid). He'd have more options to pass to in the open court and be a much more switchable defensive team.

[VDT]

He doesnt have the length of Bam (and as a result he doesnt have Bam's rim protection/finishing ability) and he doesnt have his shooting touch.

[Sixerscan]

You could have Simmons playing center because so many other teams have went smaller, you just have to have enough quick guys who can shoot 3s to make the other team not be able to play a traditional big.

Would work against some teams but not anyone you need to beat.

You don't think he could bulk up a little bit in the offseason and basically be a better passing Bam? He's really not all that far off from being the same size as Bam and he looks to be more athletic. As he gets older he'll probably add some strength/bulk anyways.

You can't envision Simmons excelling doing the same things as Bam is currently doing with all those shooters around him(including 1 more than he's had on the floor since he'd be the center, not Embiid). He'd have more options to pass to in the open court and be a much more switchable defensive team.

Have you ever seen Simmons play center before? It doesn't work. He's not long enough and doesn't understand how to play the position. Adebayo is much longer and has been playing center all his life. Center is a really tough position to play. It also takes him away from covering wings which he's basically the best in the league at.

[Bum Adebayo]

You cannot envision Simmons doing the things Bam does, for one simple reason, math doesn't add up:
Bam > Embiid > Simmons
It's really that simple. Embiid is certainly a huge disappointment so far as a player in playoffs, but Simmons is no better in this regard, he hasn't done jack **** either. Bam has proven he can be a huge factor in playoffs, even if he cannot carry a scoring load.

[dice]

unless there was some sort of gross insubordination on butler's part (which has not been hinted at by anyone), a person would have to be completely divorced from reality to think that elton brand would trade good assets for jimmy butler as a less than one season rental with no intention of maxing him out. because everybody and their professor knew that jimmy was looking for a max deal. it's why chicago traded him in the first place

Bodner has been pretty clear that the Sixers didn't offer the 5th year.

what makes him the authority on the matter? jimmy himself has said he didn't leave because of money. and here's kyle neubeck also saying that MULTIPLE sources confirmed the team's willingness to go 5 years:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-sign-and-trade-jimmy-butler-miami-heat-josh-richardson-nba-free-agency/

but if it is indeed true that jimmy was only offered 4 years, it makes brand's decision to trade for jimmy in the first place extraordinarily foolish

what i suspect might have happened, and which would account for the conflicting reports, is that philly initially offered 4 years, jimmy was insulted and was un-swayed when the team came back with the full max offer

[Stanford]

but if it is indeed true that jimmy was only offered 4 years, it makes brand's decision to trade for jimmy in the first place extraordinarily foolish

Oh, I absolutely agree. The whole thing was poorly thought out.

what i suspect might have happened, and which would account for the conflicting reports, is that philly initially offered 4 years, jimmy was insulted and was un-swayed when the team came back with the full max offer

I believe the conflicting accounts come directly from the Colangelo crew to take the heat off of the front office once/after Butler bolted for Miami.

jimmy himself has said he didn't leave because of money.

No, but he could have stayed for the money. Also, I don't believe anything Jimmy Butler says.

[kuclas]

Let’s get real. Sixers didn’t want to offer the full 5/190 max. Jimmy Butler felt disrespected. Whatever the stories. Whether sixers said go find a better deal as we will match.

The way the nba structures free agent deal. It’s actually to the team trying to retain its own free agents.

The 5th year guaranteed max available to the “home” team trying to retain its own free agent is a double edge sword especially players at or near age 30.

Would Miami have given Butler the full 5/190 if nba teams allowed it? Would Boston have given Kemba the full 5/210 if the nba allowed it? I do not think so. Because both players at or near age 30. And those 4 and 5th years are dangerous to guarantee.

It’s much easier for opposing teams to offer 4/140 and let players have opt out after 3rd year. I just don’t see Boston or Miami giving the full 5 year max if it had been available to players age 30.

[dice]

but if it is indeed true that jimmy was only offered 4 years, it makes brand's decision to trade for jimmy in the first place extraordinarily foolish

Oh, I absolutely agree. The whole thing was poorly thought out.

what i suspect might have happened, and which would account for the conflicting reports, is that philly initially offered 4 years, jimmy was insulted and was un-swayed when the team came back with the full max offer

I believe the conflicting accounts come directly from the Colangelo crew to take the heat off of the front office once/after Butler bolted for Miami.

jimmy himself has said he didn't leave because of money.

No, but he could have stayed for the money. Also, I don't believe anything Jimmy Butler says.

thing is, if jimmy wasn't offered the max, he could very easily just say "i wasn't offered the max and felt disrespected." and EVERYBODY would have sympathized with that and **** all over the philly FO. so the question is why jimmy hasn't just come out and said that if it is indeed the truth. doesn't make sense

[76ciology]

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Please. Undo the mistake we made in 2013.

[76ciology]

Watch on YouTube

My countryman Coach spo, my favorite coach.

[Zumramania]

This is interesting, right? The East has by far the best coaches: Spo, Nurse and Stevens, which makes our job more so harder. Would have we lost against the Celtics if BB was coaching them and Stevens coaching us? I'm not saying we had a good team, but this is that additional handicap that we have against the best teams in the east. It will hopefully get better with the new coach but who knows really.

[freshie2]

Is Dwight Howard the Mason-dixon line for #1 overall picks? Acceptable performance over his career, but not an all time great? Was very dominant early on, very bad when he bounced from team to team as the missing piece, and now hangs on as bench depth for contenders? Any production for a #1 overall pick less than Dwight is a bust? Curious how exactly to view his career. It is wierd to see him adopt the Patrick Beverly, Marcus Smart, Draymond Green role of chippy/cheap play just to draw poorly officiated fouls.