Where is Nerlens?

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Okafor's offense doesn't need defending. Its his rebounding and defensive potential that has killed his value.

Yeah, and once again...It's simply WAY TOO EARLY to assume that he can't improve in those areas. Way too early, we all know you hate Jahlil Okafor, it's ok.

Stop being a baby. Express your opinion about the player and move on. Don't worry about the fantastic lies I made up about the player, due to my hate.

Aaaaannnnnndddddd he takes it back to Kindergarten, calling people "babies" on a forum.
Look, you are so stubborn in your stance that you are even willing to suggest that Noel can play power forward next to Embiid when he has clearly proven that he can only play the center position....A laughable idea on your part. It just makes your lopsided narrow minded opinion on this fiasco shine like polyurethane painted over a hardened turd. You criticize Okafor every single chance you get, and then you get angry and resort to insults when someone has an opinion opposite of yours on him. Meanwhile, most of the people on here that do support Okafor are also huge fans of what Noel brings to the table (minus a few people). I for one love Noel, and if Embiid wasn't here I would probably be in favor of keeping him over Okafor if I had to make a choice. The thing is, i'm willing to bet on Embiid. I think he's going to stay healthy and be a very good player for a long time in this league. I'm also willing to bet on Okafor improving, and i'm willing to see if he can, just as much as i'm willing to see if Noel can learn to catch a basketball, or hit a wide open jumpshot from 10-15 feet out (in other words make a shot that is not a dunk). You on the other hand are just blinded by bigotry and that is your problem. You sound rather provincial just spouting mindless opinions while lambasting Okafor every chance you get. "Nope, he sucks, nope...he can't play power forward, nope....Richaun Holmes is better, so in Kwame Brown". Then you desperately proclaim that Noel will suddenly be able to play power foward, despite not ever being able to do it before. It's getting old at this point, i'm starting to think that you have some sort of personal vendetta against Okafor, or are experiencing some sort of mental psychosis.
We disagree, and quite vehemently from what I can see, but throwing insults at me isn't the best way to prove me wrong. I've stated many times, that I will admit I was wrong about Okafor when he proves me wrong, but I believe it will be the other way around, which makes Noel the one that gets traded.

[Sixerscan]

I'm proud of us for getting through an almost entire page without someone posting a rant about Okafor.

[LloydFree]

I prefer Noel as the "Embiid insurance". If Embiid stays upright, Noel is the backup Center. I believe that neither Okafor or Noel should play on the floor at the same time as Embiid. I agree with most, that Noel will be the one traded, because he is the one that other teams want. What about any of that inspires so much anger and hatred?

[tk76]

There are too many centers, so they have to trade one. I like all three but each have major concerns (health, offense, defense.) I'm not anti any of them, but realize their issues and/or limitations. So to me, what matters most is getting the best return possible, or if there is no viable trade option, then somehow keeping them satisfied with limited minutes or less than ideal roles.

I never understood the vitriol of the either/or center debate. You can have a preference without hating the other (this is a general statement and not targeted at any one poster.)

[spikeslovechild]

I don't see Cavs trading Love. His impact has been underrated on both ends. He's their 2nd best two way impact player on court. Not to mention, LBJ needs to play like a PF like him. Cavs don't need a rim protector, they have LBJ while their bigs are mobile enough to switch on D and punish smallers teams on the boards.

Look I tend to agree (not about Love defense but your second point) about them not needing a rim protector. I don't see any reason why the Cavs would move Love for Noel when they have TT. Even if they didn't have TT I think Love is worth more which is why I have Dunn moving for less.

But still these types of trades happen all the time in the NBA. I also think it will be difficult for them to put a deal together for Love if they are intent on moving him. They basically need a top player to become unhappy and demand a trade because most of the teams looking to add Love won't be interested in subtracting from their core. They will be looking to trade assets to add Love as part of their already existing core.

I don't think the Cavs are interested in interested in picks or young players. For that reason for better or worse the Cavs are probably stuck with him.

I prefer Noel as the "Embiid insurance". If Embiid stays upright, Noel is the backup Center. I believe that neither Okafor or Noel should play on the floor at the same time as Embiid. I agree with most, that Noel will be the one traded, because he is the one that other teams want. What about any of that inspires so much anger and hatred?

With all due respect you don't know that. I'd also add if some of the rumored proposals are true they couldn't want him all that much.

I'm not going to say Okafor was good on defense last year because he wasn't but some of you guys act like he didn't do anything passable/well at all and that just simply isn't true.

For example when someone says centers need to be able to defend the rim and rebound like LB and a bunch of posters here do as some sort of argument for Noel versus Okafor they are lying. You may see things one way, I may see things another but the fact that Okafor opponents shot worse in the key isn't debatable it's fact. Or the fact that the team rebounded better on the floor with Okafor then with Noel.

That doesn't mean that Okafor doesn't need to get better in those areas. What it means is Noel supporters are basically making crap up thinking somehow putting Okafor down is going to save Noel. It's not.

I also think it's sort of telling that everytime I bring up the fact his Noels numbers declined defensively last season and that he rebounded poorly they bring up the fact he had to transition to PF. However, these same people never make any such allowance with Okafor who also had to transition to PF -- as a 19 year old rookie. While at the same time learning defensive fundamentals and being challenged in a way he wasn't at Duke.

I'm just not sure what some of you guys expect from the kid. You talk about cherry picked stats well why don't we talk about some of the individual performances he put up against some of the NBA top centers. November 11, Val 11 points on 8 shots. Nov 9, Gasol 16 points on 17 shots. Nov 23, Towns 6 points on 7 shots. Dec 10, Lopez (B.) 7 points on 3 shots. Jan 4, Towns 8 points on 8 shots. I mean the list goes on and on.

For me that is what is most encouraging. He's shown he can defend in spurts what needed is for the CS to get it out of him consistently. A big part of that is improving his conditioning which apparently Okafor recognizes. We will see but I for one am not going to give up on him after one season.

You are so missing the boat if you think this is about supporting Noel versus trying to reel in the Okafor fanatics. I've been on record as saying I don't care which they trade they are both fine prospects.

The only reason I would really prefer to trade Okafor is because I'm sick of every thread turning into some dumb debate about Okafor. Which you are involved with in two different threads right now btw. Funny how that happens. I'm sure it's all Noel's fault.

This is identical to what happened with Turner and Dalembert, calling everyone that disagreed with them "Jodie Meeks fans" or idk "Kenny Thomas" fans. Funny how some of the same people are involved...

If Noel was traded he would release pressure on the log jam, but if Okafor was traded he would, by himself, SOLVE the logjam.

That is a compelling argument for Okafor being the one to be traded. However, I still don't want to do it simply because I believe in his talent more than Noel's, and we have more time to figure it out with him.

Probably the BEST thing for the Sixers would be to trade Okafor for full value, but since that doesn't seem to be possible right now, I would much rather trade Noel at a discount(if forced to trade one of them), and take my chances trying to make it work with Okafor.

Embiid and Simmons are both 2 notches above Okafor and Noel in terms of talent and importance to the team, so I'm willing to trade either of them, but I'm less willing to take lesser value back on Okafor just to solve the logjam.


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The problem with keeping Noel and trading someone else other then Embiid is it doesn't solve anything. That's not to say our logjam at PF won't need to be addressed at a later point as well.

But two separate issues. Ultimately, I think what will decide whether or not we can make it work is whether Okafor can transition to PF. Saric can play some PF. Simmons doesn't have to play PF to be effective.

[FreesFro]

Here's the deal.

Nerlens will never be a "scorer".

Simmons' strength is not as a "scorer" yet.

Saric will probably not be a "scorer" in the NBA.

Embiid? Who knows what he will be? At this point I wouldn't count on him to be a "scorer" his first few seasons.

Now I'm not saying these guys won't develop into "scorers", but not anytime soon.

With Okafor, and you can knock him about a lot of the rest of his game, was, is and will always be a "scorer".

[SparksFly87]

Okafor is a superior big man to Nerlens. If you think otherwise it's an illusion. Nerlens relies on his natural athleticism and hasn't improved much in his game or body since entering the NBA. Okafor is a big man with a big game. He also shows improvement in his weaknesses and conditioning day to day, year to year and month to month.

[Ericb5]

I don't see Cavs trading Love. His impact has been underrated on both ends. He's their 2nd best two way impact player on court. Not to mention, LBJ needs to play like a PF like him. Cavs don't need a rim protector, they have LBJ while their bigs are mobile enough to switch on D and punish smallers teams on the boards.

Look I tend to agree (not about Love defense but your second point) about them not needing a rim protector. I don't see any reason why the Cavs would move Love for Noel when they have TT. Even if they didn't have TT I think Love is worth more which is why I have Dunn moving for less.

But still these types of trades happen all the time in the NBA. I also think it will be difficult for them to put a deal together for Love if they are intent on moving him. They basically need a top player to become unhappy and demand a trade because most of the teams looking to add Love won't be interested in subtracting from their core. They will be looking to trade assets to add Love as part of their already existing core.

I don't think the Cavs are interested in interested in picks or young players. For that reason for better or worse the Cavs are probably stuck with him.

I prefer Noel as the "Embiid insurance". If Embiid stays upright, Noel is the backup Center. I believe that neither Okafor or Noel should play on the floor at the same time as Embiid. I agree with most, that Noel will be the one traded, because he is the one that other teams want. What about any of that inspires so much anger and hatred?

With all due respect you don't know that. I'd also add if some of the rumored proposals are true they couldn't want him all that much.

You are so missing the boat if you think this is about supporting Noel versus trying to reel in the Okafor fanatics. I've been on record as saying I don't care which they trade they are both fine prospects.

The only reason I would really prefer to trade Okafor is because I'm sick of every thread turning into some dumb debate about Okafor. Which you are involved with in two different threads right now btw. Funny how that happens. I'm sure it's all Noel's fault.

This is identical to what happened with Turner and Dalembert, calling everyone that disagreed with them "Jodie Meeks fans" or idk "Kenny Thomas" fans. Funny how some of the same people are involved...

If Noel was traded he would release pressure on the log jam, but if Okafor was traded he would, by himself, SOLVE the logjam.

That is a compelling argument for Okafor being the one to be traded. However, I still don't want to do it simply because I believe in his talent more than Noel's, and we have more time to figure it out with him.

Probably the BEST thing for the Sixers would be to trade Okafor for full value, but since that doesn't seem to be possible right now, I would much rather trade Noel at a discount(if forced to trade one of them), and take my chances trying to make it work with Okafor.

Embiid and Simmons are both 2 notches above Okafor and Noel in terms of talent and importance to the team, so I'm willing to trade either of them, but I'm less willing to take lesser value back on Okafor just to solve the logjam.


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The problem with keeping Noel and trading someone else other then Embiid is it doesn't solve anything. That's not to say our logjam at PF won't need to be addressed at a later point as well.

But two separate issues. Ultimately, I think what will decide whether or not we can make it work is whether Okafor can transition to PF. Saric can play some PF. Simmons doesn't have to play PF to be effective.

The logjam issue is at both the 4 and 5 positions because we have 3 players that can only play those spots, and a couple others that might be best used at the 4.

The players are Saric, Simmons, Okafor, Noel, and Embiid. This isn't even counting players like Covington, Grant, and Holmes that will have zero minutes available to them at the 4.

Saric can play the 3 or 4, but his best position is likely to be the 4.
Simmons can play multiple positions, but his best position, to defend at at least, might be the 4.
Embiid should be the starting 5.
Okafor's best position is probably the 5, but we have to determine if he can play the 4.
Noel can only play the 5.

Trading Noel would free up back up center minutes for Okafor so it certainly does help the problem, since there is a trickle down effect of then freeing up minutes at the 4 for someone else. Trading Okafor basically leaves the 4 position wide open for Saric and Simmons to alternate between the 3 and the 4 defensively as matchups dictate. Noel can just be the backup center then.

[Gsraider]

I guess all of those "hot" rumors have seemingly died. The need still remains, but I'm happy so far with how BC has handled it at least (or not handled it as they case me be). It will happen eventually.

[tk76]

Trading Noel would free up back up center minutes for Okafor so it certainly does help the problem, since there is a trickle down effect of then freeing up minutes at the 4 for someone else. Trading Okafor basically leaves the 4 position wide open for Saric and Simmons to alternate between the 3 and the 4 defensively as matchups dictate. Noel can just be the backup center then.

But contracts come into play. Noel is a RFA next summer. If the team decides they want him to be their back-up C going forward, it is going to be a tough situation to try and reach a deal that makes both parties happy. While with Jah, he is under contract for 3 more seasons, so if the team decides he is their back-up, then they don't have to deal with the contract issue for a while. It also gives them a few years to wait on Embiid's health, since Jah will remain a comparatively cheap back-up plan. With Noel, you need to decide at the end of the year whether you want to invest the max on a back-up center.

[Sandalf42]

Honestly, I think the kind of offer we should go for would be a measly rotational wing + lightly protected 1st round pick in 2020, 2021.

The market is low for Noel, but I can see a team Willing to snag Noel for little to no immediate cost. This way we can give ourselves more flexibility to be able to get good young prospects while still competing in the future .

I know it's way down the road, but I'd be ok with a trade like that. We don't really need anymore prospects right now, but in 5 years we might.

[Ericb5]

Trading Noel would free up back up center minutes for Okafor so it certainly does help the problem, since there is a trickle down effect of then freeing up minutes at the 4 for someone else. Trading Okafor basically leaves the 4 position wide open for Saric and Simmons to alternate between the 3 and the 4 defensively as matchups dictate. Noel can just be the backup center then.

But contracts come into play. Noel is a RFA next summer. If the team decides they want him to be their back-up C going forward, it is going to be a tough situation to try and reach a deal that makes both parties happy. While with Jah, he is under contract for 3 more seasons, so if the team decides he is their back-up, then they don't have to deal with the contract issue for a while. It also gives them a few years to wait on Embiid's health, since Jah will remain a comparatively cheap back-up plan. With Noel, you need to decide at the end of the year whether you want to invest the max on a back-up center.

I agree with you. I prefer to trade Noel given all of the factors, but I think that if we are only talking about the logjam itself, that Okafor is the one player that would fix that problem the easiest. I personally feel that his talent is greater, and therefore he is worth keeping, even though trading Noel doesn't solve the problem entirely. Trading Noel would at least free up 20+ minutes at the center position in the first year.

In the end, there very well may not be a way to solve the problem without trading both of them, but I think that Okafor's talent makes him worth stomaching more inconvenience for while we try to figure it out.

[HeadEast76]

Just curious. Does anyone know what Mike D'Antoni thinks about these 2 guys? As a rule, I'm very skeptical about most media and team sources. But if I was looking for some insightful and/or inside info on any sixers matters I would love to know what he thinks. Think we could get less bias and more analysis than most sources.

[eagereyez]

So let me throw out a hypothetical scenario: The Sixers trade Noel, and Embiid goes down. Do you still believe you have a championship caliber team with Okafor anchoring the defense? It's going to be impossible to hide him defensively playing next to Saric/Simmons, neither of whom are projected to be elite defenders. The team is doomed in that scenario.

[kriss73]

I wouldn't say the Sixers are doomed: we have the cap space and the picks to potentially replace Noel in that unfortunate scenario.

[Ericb5]

So let me throw out a hypothetical scenario: The Sixers trade Noel, and Embiid goes down. Do you still believe you have a championship caliber team with Okafor anchoring the defense? It's going to be impossible to hide him defensively playing next to Saric/Simmons, neither of whom are projected to be elite defenders. The team is doomed in that scenario.

If Embiid goes down we are in trouble no matter what. We would still be ahead of most rebuilding teams due to having Simmons though.

Btw, Okafor will never be someone anchoring a defense so trying to put him in that role makes no sense on any team.


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[LloydFree]

So let me throw out a hypothetical scenario: The Sixers trade Noel, and Embiid goes down. Do you still believe you have a championship caliber team with Okafor anchoring the defense? It's going to be impossible to hide him defensively playing next to Saric/Simmons, neither of whom are projected to be elite defenders. The team is doomed in that scenario.

We waste the next 8 years winning 25-35 games per year like the Nets and Magic, unless we get lucky and the 2017 pick becomes the next Jordan.

[Sixerscan]

So let me throw out a hypothetical scenario: The Sixers trade Noel, and Embiid goes down. Do you still believe you have a championship caliber team with Okafor anchoring the defense? It's going to be impossible to hide him defensively playing next to Saric/Simmons, neither of whom are projected to be elite defenders. The team is doomed in that scenario.

We waste the next 8 years winning 25-35 games per year like the Nets and Magic, unless we get lucky and the 2017 pick becomes the next Jordan.

So you need Michael Jordan in addition to Simmons okafor and Saric to win more than 35 games? How do all those other teams pull it off?

[Ericb5]

So let me throw out a hypothetical scenario: The Sixers trade Noel, and Embiid goes down. Do you still believe you have a championship caliber team with Okafor anchoring the defense? It's going to be impossible to hide him defensively playing next to Saric/Simmons, neither of whom are projected to be elite defenders. The team is doomed in that scenario.

We waste the next 8 years winning 25-35 games per year like the Nets and Magic, unless we get lucky and the 2017 pick becomes the next Jordan.

The most difficult thing in the NBA is going from zero to one stars, so having Simmons puts us ahead of most of the rebuilding teams by himself. The Nets and Magic are still stuck with nothing.

Yes, I realize that Simmons hasn't proven that he will be a superstar yet, but he has a much better chance than anyone on the Magic or Nets.

[SouthJersey]

So its keep Noel and Sixers are a championship Caliber team, or lose him and Embiid and not make the playoffs for 8 years unless you draft Jordan? Sixers still have some high draft picks in the future so maybe they will get lucky and draft a Jordan but its going to be tough. If Okafor really winds up being SO horrific on defense that its unbearable then they'll find another option even if it's Holmes as a stop gap, and from what I saw from Saric he played good defense and hustled. I still like Okafors game better at this point in their careers though because I believe its easier for a player to develop defensive skills than offensive skills.