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Welcome Jared McCain!

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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#281 » by eyeatoma » Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 am

stormi wrote:You just can't really compare a 6'2 guard to a 6'7 wing that was one of the best two way players in his prime. A large part of what makes Klay Klay is the fact that he always almost always took the toughest perimeter defensive matchups and created a lockdown defensive trio between he Iguodala and Draymond.

McCain is comfortably better wrt self creation than Klay Thompson was either.

At least we've already long smurfed the Divincenzo / Seth comps, JM can run an actual offense.
I think it's the shooting form and squared legs that is reminiscent of Klay.

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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#282 » by stormi » Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:13 am

eyeatoma wrote:
stormi wrote:You just can't really compare a 6'2 guard to a 6'7 wing that was one of the best two way players in his prime. A large part of what makes Klay Klay is the fact that he always almost always took the toughest perimeter defensive matchups and created a lockdown defensive trio between he Iguodala and Draymond.

McCain is comfortably better wrt self creation than Klay Thompson was either.

At least we've already long smurfed the Divincenzo / Seth comps, JM can run an actual offense.
I think it's the shooting form and squared legs that is reminiscent of Klay.

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Yea I definitely see that
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#283 » by M2J » Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:26 am

Iverson Armband wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:
Iverson Armband wrote:He has the potential to be Brunson. So yes, that’s about a tick better than Maxey.


:lol: people talking about Maxey like he is a finished product. Have you not learned anything !


Of course there’s always room for improvement, but eventually he’s going to be what he is (which is fantastic already).

It’s his 5th year, he’s not some rookie kid anymore. If you think he’s going to keep improving at an exponential rate and turn out to be better than Michael Jordan, more power to you.


Tyrese Maxey could be as good as any offensive player in the league IF he becomes a great pull-up shooter. Which his percentages need to improve about 10% from 3 and from 2 in order to be that guy.... But that's very possible for him. Last year we saw him get the footwork and the dribbling improvement, and was a good point guard who doesn't turn it over when playing with actual offensive talent (unfortunately the only talent was Joel and him). Off ball and in transition he's totally elite.

I think Jalen is better than him as a rookie clearly, and I don't say that lightly considering Maxey in his 10th game as a rookie in similar situations without his stars playing gave 39 points to Jokic and Denver. Meaning when given the chance to just go out and play, Maxey proved himself totally valuable and Morey wouldn't trade him. But, he had low point guard ability, and was afraid to shoot open shots until year 2 and was worse defensively.

Where I am hesitant to say Jared has a higher ceiling than Tyrese at is Maxey has speed and his skill basically where he needs it now, other than the pull-up game.... Which I think he makes more difficult than he needs to by always trying that hard step back or going 100mph and pulling up in transition. BUT, the primary reason is that Maxey has athleticism that Jared will never have, and is literally the fastest player in the NBA with or without the ball and without it he destroys any defender going around screens in a Steph like fashion. It takes help to defend him off ball.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#284 » by M2J » Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:48 am

stormi wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
stormi wrote:You just can't really compare a 6'2 guard to a 6'7 wing that was one of the best two way players in his prime. A large part of what makes Klay Klay is the fact that he always almost always took the toughest perimeter defensive matchups and created a lockdown defensive trio between he Iguodala and Draymond.

McCain is comfortably better wrt self creation than Klay Thompson was either.

At least we've already long smurfed the Divincenzo / Seth comps, JM can run an actual offense.
I think it's the shooting form and squared legs that is reminiscent of Klay.

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Yea I definitely see that


Squared, mechanical form....In addition to being very competitive, high motor, high basketball IQ, similar athleticism levels too. Reminds me a lot of Klay. Down to being pretty emotional players with LA vibes
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#285 » by stormi » Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:31 am

M2J wrote:
Iverson Armband wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:

:lol: people talking about Maxey like he is a finished product. Have you not learned anything !


Of course there’s always room for improvement, but eventually he’s going to be what he is (which is fantastic already).

It’s his 5th year, he’s not some rookie kid anymore. If you think he’s going to keep improving at an exponential rate and turn out to be better than Michael Jordan, more power to you.


Tyrese Maxey could be as good as any offensive player in the league IF he becomes a great pull-up shooter.


Do you seriously believe this?

Peak Chris Paul averaged 19&10, in his single best season Bradley Beal averaged 31/4/4. That Beal season doesn't crack the top 12 individual campaigns Paul has ever had.

I'm not trying to rebuttal an argument you didn't make but as a rule a player capable of catalyzing an offense drives winning far more than a stathounding chucker does.

And I'm not really trying to disparage Maxey, he's a success story - but he's a lot closer to a Brad Beal than he is to Paul level player.

Until I see Maxey making his teammates better while still being able to balance getting his he doesn't even belong in upper B tier guard convos with guys like Ja Morant / De'Aaron Fox. If they wanted to chase numbers they could easily go for 45 on any given night, like Maxey can - but there's a chasm in terms of facilliation.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#286 » by M2J » Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:03 am

stormi wrote:
M2J wrote:
Iverson Armband wrote:
Of course there’s always room for improvement, but eventually he’s going to be what he is (which is fantastic already).

It’s his 5th year, he’s not some rookie kid anymore. If you think he’s going to keep improving at an exponential rate and turn out to be better than Michael Jordan, more power to you.


Tyrese Maxey could be as good as any offensive player in the league IF he becomes a great pull-up shooter.


Do you seriously believe this?

Peak Chris Paul averaged 19&10, in his single best season Bradley Beal averaged 31/4/4. That Beal season doesn't crack the top 12 individual campaigns Paul has ever had.

I'm not trying to rebuttal an argument you didn't make but as a rule a player capable of catalyzing an offense drives winning far more than a stathounding chucker does.

And I'm not really trying to disparage Maxey, he's a success story - but he's a lot closer to a Brad Beal than he is to Paul level player.

Until I see Maxey making his teammates better while still being able to balance getting his he doesn't even belong in upper B tier guard convos with guys like Ja Morant / De'Aaron Fox. If they wanted to chase numbers they could easily go for 45 on any given night, like Maxey can - but there's a chasm in terms of facilliation.



1000% believe Maxey can get there. He'll never be Paul, nor will he be a selfish chucker like 30ppg Beal (who wasn't quite like that with a healthy Wall). He's Steph Curry with Fox's speed. Steph and the Warriors suck when they have issues with injuries to key players or key players around him don't produce... See last year, See 2021, . He's not exactly a point guard that whips it around like Chris Paul to other scorers or makes guys better playing ball dominant style. He has to do it with his movement and making smart reads to good players within their system. Nurse has a DHO and movement based system with Maxey, but not the same thing at all as what GSW runs which includes a lot more than a 2 man game.

But when playing with talent in that system... Without the ball, he's an offensive system within the system due to his movement and scoring ability. With Joel Maxey was that last year, taking multiple players with him by sprinting to the corner... Creating lanes for cutters and other's open 3pt shots. Creating outlets for others instead of being just another guy standing around with his hands up for Joel to go one on one. Creating pace to the offense in the half court on top of literally creating fast break chances with his speed, and space but standing at the logo because his man still has to guard his shot and be attached in case he takes off. It's what allows Durant to ball stop and not bog down their offense... Wiggins to come in and still be able to play his game to the tune of becoming an all-star starter the first year. Never brings into question how multiple all stars can thrive with 1 ball. Maxey leading the league in Miles per game is a Steph Curry stat.

If he gets that pull up have right and becomes the efficient on ball scorer he can be, then that will open up his game more as a facilitator, but I'll always value someone that can help their teams without the ball at a star level than just another ball dominant star. Steph may only have 1 finals MVP, but his impact was always the most important
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#287 » by Black Mage » Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:59 pm

stormi wrote:
M2J wrote:
Iverson Armband wrote:
Of course there’s always room for improvement, but eventually he’s going to be what he is (which is fantastic already).

It’s his 5th year, he’s not some rookie kid anymore. If you think he’s going to keep improving at an exponential rate and turn out to be better than Michael Jordan, more power to you.


Tyrese Maxey could be as good as any offensive player in the league IF he becomes a great pull-up shooter.


Do you seriously believe this?

Peak Chris Paul averaged 19&10, in his single best season Bradley Beal averaged 31/4/4. That Beal season doesn't crack the top 12 individual campaigns Paul has ever had.

I'm not trying to rebuttal an argument you didn't make but as a rule a player capable of catalyzing an offense drives winning far more than a stathounding chucker does.

And I'm not really trying to disparage Maxey, he's a success story - but he's a lot closer to a Brad Beal than he is to Paul level player.

Until I see Maxey making his teammates better while still being able to balance getting his he doesn't even belong in upper B tier guard convos with guys like Ja Morant / De'Aaron Fox. If they wanted to chase numbers they could easily go for 45 on any given night, like Maxey can - but there's a chasm in terms of facilliation.


Let's be honest, Maxey was handicapped when it came to getting experience running an offense. He either had to defer to Joel who would hold the ball or doesn't roll; or he was trapped with Doc who doesn't know how to run any kind of cohesive system.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#288 » by Negrodamus » Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:22 pm

Side note: this should serve as a reminder that SL is to only celebrate the good performances and ignore the bad ones. Also, none of it means anything. Otherwise, we'd still be kicking ourselves for not trading up for Kel'el Ware who is averaging 2ppg right now for Miami.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#289 » by mjkvol » Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:24 pm

stormi wrote:You just can't really compare a 6'2 guard to a 6'7 wing that was one of the best two way players in his prime. A large part of what makes Klay Klay is the fact that he almost always took the toughest perimeter defensive matchups and created a lockdown defensive trio between he Iguodala and Draymond.

McCain is comfortably better wrt self creation than Klay Thompson was either.

At least we've already long smurfed the Divincenzo / Seth comps, JM can run an actual offense.


Agree, the Klay comp doesn't work. He's a HOFer almost as much for his defense as anything else, and while McCain might develop into a net-neutral defender at worst (and likely better than that due to his work ethic and BBIQ) he's never going to be the 1-3 lock-down guy that Klay was in his prime.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#290 » by DCasey91 » Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:34 pm

I think now we should 100% see a drop in the commandment of the offense for Embiid. Helps to prolong his health. Focus on being All NBA 1st team defence (which should have been priority number 1 all this time).

Between Maxey and McCain its obvious that one will be neutral like on defence and if we get who I'm hoping for in this years draft then we are cooking with gas. If not big Eason fan

Double O too btw. Go all in no half measures

Tired of old guys who aren't good on the list. Anyway kids great, long way to go but it wasn't a secret that he was the best shooter as a freshman.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#291 » by akhan786 » Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:50 pm

DCasey91 wrote:I think now we should 100% see a drop in the commandment of the offense for Embiid. Helps to prolong his health. Focus on being All NBA 1st team defence (which should have been priority number 1 all this time).

Between Maxey and McCain its obvious that one will be neutral like on defence and if we get who I'm hoping for in this years draft then we are cooking with gas. If not big Eason fan

Double O too btw. Go all in no half measures

Tired of old guys who aren't good on the list. Anyway kids great, long way to go but it wasn't a secret that he was the best shooter as a freshman.


Jared and Tyrese can prolong Embiid’s career if Nurse and Joel let them.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#292 » by DCasey91 » Sat Nov 16, 2024 3:05 pm

akhan786 wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:I think now we should 100% see a drop in the commandment of the offense for Embiid. Helps to prolong his health. Focus on being All NBA 1st team defence (which should have been priority number 1 all this time).

Between Maxey and McCain its obvious that one will be neutral like on defence and if we get who I'm hoping for in this years draft then we are cooking with gas. If not big Eason fan

Double O too btw. Go all in no half measures

Tired of old guys who aren't good on the list. Anyway kids great, long way to go but it wasn't a secret that he was the best shooter as a freshman.


Jared and Tyrese can prolong Embiid’s career if Nurse and Joel let them.


Yep those two have the power, it's definety at the stage where there should be a transition period occurring. It's up to the big oaf to accept it. He isn't Hakeem/Duncan level as a defender but he for sure can best in the East by a distance.... And he doesn't have a DPOY
maybe just maybe that's an incentive.

Don't know but hopefully something like that happens.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#293 » by Kobblehead » Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:51 pm

Right to the top of the Rookie of the Year race. Just like we planned.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#294 » by sixers hoops » Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:34 pm

Jailblazers7 wrote:I get that the Maxey/McCain backcourt is small but what’s the real alternative? Play Oubre or Martin who are shooting 30% from 3?


I don’t think it’s like 20 years ago. I routinely see teams playing two 6’2 guys. We play Lowry and Maxey together, and while Lowry is an experienced defender, they figure it out. Teams just score and make the other team beat them on the other end. In 2021, if I remember correctly, the Hawks kept putting Trae and Lou Will out there together, and we could stop it. I think McCain’s shooting would fit great with that starting lineup, and we have some big bodies behind them. And if it doesn’t work at times, switch it up.

I’m sure some teams will take advantage of us and we will have to adjust, but that might be our best lineup. I don’t care if they start together, but I would prob try them starting together. Nevertheless, they probably need to play 20 minutes a night together, and finish the game together. McCain looks too good to keep off the court.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#295 » by FireMorey » Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:54 pm

If Embiid didn't start the season not playing and Maxey didn't get hurt, McCain would probably still be buried on the bench and barely playing. And if he wasn't able to show off his ability, he may have been a throw-in in some deadline deal for a player that isn't great. Something the Sixers and their fans would have lamented forever.

If this disastrous start led to the discovery of an emerging star and prevented the Sixers from mistakenly giving away that star where they'd come to regret it for years, then it was worth it and more.

This is what should keep fans should be clinging to right now in terms of optimism.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#296 » by Sixerscan » Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:14 pm

Also let's them focus on getting a 4 at the deadline.

Assuming they're not 20 games under .500 by then of course.

I think he's definitely gonna keep starting. When things are going this bad teams tend to cling to the few things that are going right and try to use it to dig out.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#297 » by Eyeamok » Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:48 pm

Foshan wrote:maybe i'm old... and delusional, but he reminds me of a better shooting andre miller. strong for a 'small' guard, craftier than he looks at getting his shot off inside, but a much better 3pt form


Damn that means he is going to be good enough to get us the 8th pick in the draft. The new ping pong ball killer.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#298 » by Eyeamok » Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:06 pm

FireMorey wrote:If Embiid didn't start the season not playing and Maxey didn't get hurt, McCain would probably still be buried on the bench and barely playing. And if he wasn't able to show off his ability, he may have been a throw-in in some deadline deal for a player that isn't great. Something the Sixers and their fans would have lamented forever.

If this disastrous start led to the discovery of an emerging star and prevented the Sixers from mistakenly giving away that star where they'd come to regret it for years, then it was worth it and more.

This is what should keep fans should be clinging to right now in terms of optimism.


Excellent post. Can you imagine if Doc was still the coach. McCain would be burried behind Reggie and Gordon and even wtih injuries would get zero chances. Another Isaiah Joe throaway in the making but only much better.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#299 » by Stanford » Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:11 pm

Maybe. McCain has demanded minutes in a way that Joe never did.
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Re: Welcome Jared McCain! 

Post#300 » by Eyeamok » Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:15 pm

Iverson Armband wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:
Iverson Armband wrote:He has the potential to be Brunson. So yes, that’s about a tick better than Maxey.


:lol: people talking about Maxey like he is a finished product. Have you not learned anything !


Of course there’s always room for improvement, but eventually he’s going to be what he is (which is fantastic already).

It’s his 5th year, he’s not some rookie kid anymore. If you think he’s going to keep improving at an exponential rate and turn out to be better than Michael Jordan, more power to you.


Boo on your Michael Jordan comparison. You're introducing a comparison that was never made.

I don't even know what you mean when you say "exponential". Are you telling me a guy that works as hard at his game as Maxey does, and believes he can get 1% better every day can't develop a better feel for the game? Can't become a better leader on this team. Can't become a better closer? Are you saying if I expect that from Maxey I am expecting too much?

Also no hating on McCain. But other teams are not preparing for him. He is probably not even on their scouting report. The real test will be if this team can ever start winning can he perform at the same level when opposing coach game plan for him? I hope he can.
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