2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[PhilasFinest]

Lauri can handle the ball pretty well, for me a underrated athlete, also a great pull-up guy for someone 7ft.

Lähetetty minun LG-H440n laitteesta Tapatalkilla

He is also a pretty horrendous defender. I can see the allure in possibly having 2 7 footers on the floor, complimenting each other and spacing the floor,but on defense I think he will struggle in the NBA. He doesn't protect the rim or generate steals.This kid is not Kristaps Porzingis. Id much rather get a guard/wing prospect if possible. Maybe if we are picking like 10th and he is there and the BPA, but just like Ntilikina....I would be pretty underwhelmed if we came away with LM as our pick in this draft currently. Id rather have Saric starting at the 4 spot or Ben Simmons.

At the same time, Sixers would be a good spot for a Lauri-type in that he doesn't need to play center or handle a big load on defense. He can't play in every situation either way, but he's someone who can be a very useful role player next to an Embiid or Noel if the small-ball 4 isn't cooking too much.

I think Lauri/Ball/Monk all need the Sixers in one way or the other. All three can be successful without the Sixers, but with Simmons and Embiid, all three of those guys would be able to just do what they're good at and hope they figure out the other stuff later.

I agree to an extent. I can see Lauri doing well, kid is an elite shooter with a pretty much unblock-able shot. Give him the Ersan/Dario looks from the perimeter and he is probably nailing them. I just have concerns with him defending the 4 spot and the PNR. If Simmons looks like a SF and can defend it, Id maybe be more open to the idea...if not, I think you have a lot of minutes at the 4 spot tied up to Ben and Dario. Unfortunately, its looking like we may end up not getting to see Ben at all this year, which sucks.

Monk and Ball are in a different class for US in terms of fit. We need guard/perimeter players and both fill that void at different capacities. Lauri is a 5/4....which we have Embiid/Noel(currently)/Okafor(currently)/Holmes/Saric/Simmons/Ersan(currently).

[yourewrong]

Lauri can handle the ball pretty well, for me a underrated athlete, also a great pull-up guy for someone 7ft.

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He is also a pretty horrendous defender. I can see the allure in possibly having 2 7 footers on the floor, complimenting each other and spacing the floor,but on defense I think he will struggle in the NBA. He doesn't protect the rim or generate steals.This kid is not Kristaps Porzingis. Id much rather get a guard/wing prospect if possible. Maybe if we are picking like 10th and he is there and the BPA, but just like Ntilikina....I would be pretty underwhelmed if we came away with LM as our pick in this draft currently. Id rather have Saric starting at the 4 spot or Ben Simmons.

At the same time, Sixers would be a good spot for a Lauri-type in that he doesn't need to play center or handle a big load on defense. He can't play in every situation either way, but he's someone who can be a very useful role player next to an Embiid or Noel if the small-ball 4 isn't cooking too much.

I think Lauri/Ball/Monk all need the Sixers in one way or the other. All three can be successful without the Sixers, but with Simmons and Embiid, all three of those guys would be able to just do what they're good at and hope they figure out the other stuff later.

Also nobody should undersell Lauri as a shooter. He's a freak shooter.

He can shoot off the bounce; he can shoot without much space; I've even seen him even be the ball handler in pick and roll and just pull off that.

As a shooting 7-footer, nobody compares to him as a 19-year-old prospect at this stage maybe ever in the NBA Draft. You could maybe project others to be "great" shooters down the line, but Lauri has results, projection and the age all in one package with the shooting. It's pretty much unrivaled.

Love Lauri if we miss out on the Fultz/Jackson/Ball lottery. Also think he makes a ton of sense in Dallas, where Dirk can take him under his wing

[cksdayoff]

i hate projecting 18 year olds but I feel like Monk will be coming off the bench as an instant offense type, if his handles and D doesn't get any better

[HankTheTank]

Markkanen is probably my least favorite prospect of the potential lottery group. I'm not sure if incapable of playing defense, just doesn't care to, or has zero defensive awareness, but either way, his numbers are wretched. Pathetic block and steal numbers, which tend to be good indicators.

Considering it's half the game, I would hope we'd spend high draft picks on at least competent defenders.

[PhilasFinest]

i hate projecting 18 year olds but I feel like Monk will be coming off the bench as an instant offense type, if his handles and D doesn't get any better

Honestly depends on what team drafts him and what situation your putting him in.

If we drafted Malik Monk in the draft, he is probably not coming off the bench. Maybe 5 years down the road you project him as a Jamal Crawford/Monta Ellis like 6th man....but initially he would likely be given every opportunity after being selected in the lottery to start and contribute before that occurs.

If his defense/handle does not improve, are we any better with Nik Stauskas or Gerald Henderson on the floor?

If Ben Simmons is playing, he will be handling the ball a ton. Joel Embiid will be touching the ball a ton. That right there is taking the ball out of Monk's hands and shrinking a weakness. If he is just running the floor w/ his speed and finishing in transition or shooting open 3's off of screens, he's probably a much better offensive option that anyone we currently have.

Embiid's defensive ability already has shown that it can make you a top tier defensive team despite having sub par defenders on the floor. Is Monk's defense any worse then say, Stauskas' right now?

[HotelVitale]

i hate projecting 18 year olds but I feel like Monk will be coming off the bench as an instant offense type, if his handles and D doesn't get any better

I feel you on Monk, but remember that you can be good enough at one or two things to be very very good in the NBA even if you're not good at the rest. Having a blazing three, really good athleticism and a transition game would be enough, so long as he's actually very good at those things at the NBA level.

That's what makes the draft so dm hard--it's not just about having NBA skills (e.g. the ability to hit 3s, to drive or finish, run an offense) but about standing out enough overall to merit playing time among the best 250 players in the world. Almost every draft pick can hang and hold his own with NBA players but it's these little margins (shooting 39% instead of 32% from 3, finishing in transition 80% vs 60%, making the right pass off a shot fake 70% of the time rather than 45%, etc) that separate busts from starters.

[smittybanton]

Jayson Tatum's had an extremely solid last five games. shooting, rebounding, some passing, fewer turnovers. Looking forward to tonight's game against Virginia.

Last five games, Malik Monk 2pt% (15-44, 34%), 8assts:10turnovers. The lack of passing is excusable considering he's playing with Fox and Briscoe--although there's been games when those two are not on the floor and Calipari still doesn't put the rock in Monk's hands. My beef is 34% when a part of that is finishing alley-oops? We've already had three-point shooters who don't contribute elsewhere. On the other hand, Stauskas is still here because he can handle the rock and has vision--all of which he showed in school.

Another good game from Miles Bridges.

[HotelVitale]

As of today I'm really only excited about 5 players. Ball, Jackson, Smith, Fultz, Isaac-- in that order, subject to change. Would take Tatum next, then lots of guys with question marks.

I agree with your order for the most part. I'm tryin to talk myself into liking Tatum a little more, but Im not there yet. I think I go Fox at #6.

Can't figure Tatum out. He's got that size, first step, and shot, should be able to have his way all day in the NCAA. I sometimes think he's just playing in the system and would really blossom playing in the NBA, sometimes think he's a mess of decent skills that don't add up to anything special.

He was in my top 3 a month or two ago, now I have no idea. He's not a great fit for us, can't help thinking he's just a couple notches from being really really good though.

[yourewrong]

Markkanen is probably my least favorite prospect of the potential lottery group. I'm not sure if incapable of playing defense, just doesn't care to, or has zero defensive awareness, but either way, his numbers are wretched. Pathetic block and steal numbers, which tend to be good indicators.

Considering it's half the game, I would hope we'd spend high draft picks on at least competent defenders.

Think Lauri is mobile enough to be masked on the perimeter. Either way, I don't see any player in that range that plays well on both sides of the ball

[LloydFree]

As of today I'm really only excited about 5 players. Ball, Jackson, Smith, Fultz, Isaac-- in that order, subject to change. Would take Tatum next, then lots of guys with question marks.

I agree with your order for the most part. I'm tryin to talk myself into liking Tatum a little more, but Im not there yet. I think I go Fox at #6.

Can't figure Tatum out. He's got that size, first step, and shot, should be able to have his way all day in the NCAA. I sometimes think he's just playing in the system and would really blossom playing in the NBA, sometimes think he's a mess of decent skills that don't add up to anything special.

He was in my top 3 a month or two ago, now I have no idea. He's not a great fit for us, can't help thinking he's just a couple notches from being really really good though.

I think his problem is he's not athletic enough to get where he wants to go with the ball, unless he has a full head of steam. He looks athletic, but he seems to run with a deliberate, choppy gate.

[HotelVitale]

He was in my top 3 a month or two ago, now I have no idea. He's not a great fit for us, can't help thinking he's just a couple notches from being really really good though.

I think his problem is he's not athletic enough to get where he wants to go with the ball, unless he has a full head of steam. He looks athletic, but he seems to run with a deliberate, choppy gate.

I don't see that, and that's one of the things that kills me about him. When he isos he has good enough quickness/hesitation/crossover to get separation, definitely more than guys like KD had in college (and miles from what e.g. B Ingram had last year). He doesn't do that much with it now, and I'm wondering if he hasn't realized, 'yo, I can juke a guy and then take an easy 15 ft stepback all day' or if his body can't actually execute those moves on the regular.

I wouldn't like him nearly as much without that quickness, probably wouldn't be top 10 and not above any of the other top SFs. Hard not to be tempted by it though.

[cksdayoff]

did KD's athleticism get better over time? I saw KD and Westbrook in person and my jaw hit the floor when I saw just how quick and fast Durant was in real time.

[Kolkmania]

He was in my top 3 a month or two ago, now I have no idea. He's not a great fit for us, can't help thinking he's just a couple notches from being really really good though.

I think his problem is he's not athletic enough to get where he wants to go with the ball, unless he has a full head of steam. He looks athletic, but he seems to run with a deliberate, choppy gate.

I don't see that, and that's one of the things that kills me about him. When he isos he has good enough quickness/hesitation/crossover to get separation, definitely more than guys like KD had in college (and miles from what e.g. B Ingram had last year). He doesn't do that much with it now, and I'm wondering if he hasn't realized, 'yo, I can juke a guy and then take an easy 15 ft stepback all day' or if his body can't actually execute those moves on the regular.

I wouldn't like him nearly as much without that quickness, probably wouldn't be top 10 and not above any of the other top SFs. Hard not to be tempted by it though.

Completely agree with you HotelVitale, Tatum has an elite first step. His problem this season is his verticality around the rim, he's not able to finish against legit rim protectors this season. So either he has to improve that lower body strength, improve his upper body control while finishing or/and add more advanced moves around the rim.

Personally I'm quite confident that he's able to overcome this weakness. He seems to have grown ~1/1.5 inches this year, he was listed at 6'8'', but he seems closer to 6'10' now'. That growth could have hindered his explosiveness and he needs time to grown into his new body.
On top of that he has shown close to zero moves around the rim but straight drives. To me that's quite fascinating since he was probably the forward coming out of HS with the most advanced footwork I've ever seen (I'm not that old though ). So he definitely has the potential to improve his creativity around the rim.

[shawn_hemp]

I agree with your order for the most part. I'm tryin to talk myself into liking Tatum a little more, but Im not there yet. I think I go Fox at #6.

Can't figure Tatum out. He's got that size, first step, and shot, should be able to have his way all day in the NCAA. I sometimes think he's just playing in the system and would really blossom playing in the NBA, sometimes think he's a mess of decent skills that don't add up to anything special.

He was in my top 3 a month or two ago, now I have no idea. He's not a great fit for us, can't help thinking he's just a couple notches from being really really good though.

I think his problem is he's not athletic enough to get where he wants to go with the ball, unless he has a full head of steam. He looks athletic, but he seems to run with a deliberate, choppy gate.

Yeah I feel like Tatum will have a hard time going against the better defenders in the NBA or even the Matt Barnes of the world.

He almost telegraphs what he is doing with the basketball and that works in college but maybe not in the NBA

He doesn't really have good improv skills

[HotelVitale]

Can't figure Tatum out. He's got that size, first step, and shot, should be able to have his way all day in the NCAA. I sometimes think he's just playing in the system and would really blossom playing in the NBA, sometimes think he's a mess of decent skills that don't add up to anything special. He was in my top 3 a month or two ago, now I have no idea. He's not a great fit for us, can't help thinking he's just a couple notches from being really really good though.

I think his problem is he's not athletic enough to get where he wants to go with the ball, unless he has a full head of steam. He looks athletic, but he seems to run with a deliberate, choppy gate.

Yeah I feel like Tatum will have a hard time going against the better defenders in the NBA or even the Matt Barnes of the world. He almost telegraphs what he is doing with the basketball and that works in college but maybe not in the NBA. He doesn't really have good improv skills

That's more of a habit, though, and he has physical tools to blow by most defenders (as well as height/length to use the separation). I'm just concerned that he doesn't play to his strengths now and keeps doing hesitant drives or straightline stuff (his shot selection also isn't great). I can't tell if it's a motor issue or an IQ thing, or just a bit of laziness and youth that he can overcome.

[LloydFree]

I think his problem is he's not athletic enough to get where he wants to go with the ball, unless he has a full head of steam. He looks athletic, but he seems to run with a deliberate, choppy gate.

Yeah I feel like Tatum will have a hard time going against the better defenders in the NBA or even the Matt Barnes of the world. He almost telegraphs what he is doing with the basketball and that works in college but maybe not in the NBA. He doesn't really have good improv skills

That's more of a habit, though, and he has physical tools to blow by most defenders (as well as height/length to use the separation). I'm just concerned that he doesn't play to his strengths now and keeps doing hesitant drives or straightline stuff (his shot selection also isn't great). I can't tell if it's a motor issue or an IQ thing, or just a bit of laziness and youth that he can overcome.

Well I guess we just have to disagree. Im not impressed with his physical tools. I don't see the burst. I like his skills, so I don't want to write him off. But right now he's my least favorite of the consensus top 8.

[HotelVitale]

Yeah I feel like Tatum will have a hard time going against the better defenders in the NBA or even the Matt Barnes of the world. He almost telegraphs what he is doing with the basketball and that works in college but maybe not in the NBA. He doesn't really have good improv skills

That's more of a habit, though, and he has physical tools to blow by most defenders (as well as height/length to use the separation). I'm just concerned that he doesn't play to his strengths now and keeps doing hesitant drives or straightline stuff (his shot selection also isn't great). I can't tell if it's a motor issue or an IQ thing, or just a bit of laziness and youth that he can overcome.

Well I guess we just have to disagree. Im not impressed with his physical tools. I don't see the burst. I like his skills, so I don't want to write him off. But right now he's my least favorite of the consensus top 8.

The quickness is pretty clear, I'll dig up some vids later on when I'm not at work. It's been part of his game since HS--these quick crossovers and lateral sweeps to get separation--and he's pulled them out in Duke games here and there. They look basically unstoppable, but then in games you mostly see him do these lazy drives where he just takes two steps and starts going into a lay-up motion (or an awkward dump pass to the wing).

[Negrodamus]

Anyone watch Wichita State? What's the word on Markis McDuffie. 9 BPM, 6'8 sophomore (19 still). Leads team in scoring and has good shooting numbers. I can't find much on him besides highlights on the Wichita State youtube channel. I wonder if a big tourney would push him towards the draft. He seems like a long, rangy athlete.

[MR28]

Lonzo Ball's dad is a mess.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Arsenal]

Lonzo Ball's dad is a mess.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Luckily we are 3000 miles away lol.