Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6

[eyeatoma]

Minnesota isn’t giving up Edwards. They’d move KAT first.

That would be dumb.

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Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, it’s there to illustrate how untouchable Edwards is for the Wolves.

Then the wolves shouldn't bother asking for Ben unless they can get a third team in, because the rest they have to offer makes zero sense for Philly.

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[Sportfan73]

We’re not getting SGA even for Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We can maybe get fox for Maxey, Thybulle, a first or two, and Ben. Edwards the same, probably costs at least 2 firsts on top of Ben.

[jscott]

That would be dumb.

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Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, it’s there to illustrate how untouchable Edwards is for the Wolves.

Then the wolves shouldn't bother asking for Ben unless they can get a third team in, because the rest they have to offer makes zero sense for Philly.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Doesn’t seem like any of the 4-5 teams who have interest in Simmons are willing to move anyone critical from their team. Not sure how that’s going to change. I mean, he’s gonna just sit. How long can they afford no production from 30-35m in cap? Do you think this stretches to the deadline? Do you think his value will somehow be higher by then?

I feel the longer this goes the lower his value gets and by some crazy chance it somehow gets into another offseason he’ll be an extremely negative contract. Not sure how long PHI can afford to string this out frankly. It’ll be interesting to follow.

Ultimately, I’m not saying the Wolves will have the 6ers preferred offer for Ben. Not trying to convince you of that because what would that accomplish? I’m saying that, as someone who follows that team closely, there is no way they’ll offer Edwards.

[Kobblehead]

Looking forward to seeing Ant-Man in his Sixers jersey.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

It's been Haliburton for me since this chaos first ensued. In fact, Sacramento has been my top preferred trade partner. If we come out of this with one of Fox, Haliburton, or even Davion Mitchell, I'm going to be very happy. We absolutely need a point guard in return for Simmons or this is going to be a disaster. I wouldn't cry about the Pacer package and I'd take Edwards based off of his potential alone despite him not being a point guard, but after that, the options aren't all that enticing. I love CJ McCollum, but he's my least favorite option in all of this.

[FlyingArrow]

Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, it’s there to illustrate how untouchable Edwards is for the Wolves.

Then the wolves shouldn't bother asking for Ben unless they can get a third team in, because the rest they have to offer makes zero sense for Philly.

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Doesn’t seem like any of the 4-5 teams who have interest in Simmons are willing to move anyone critical from their team. Not sure how that’s going to change. I mean, he’s gonna just sit. How long can they afford no production from 30-35m in cap? Do you think this stretches to the deadline? Do you think his value will somehow be higher by then?

I feel the longer this goes the lower his value gets and by some crazy chance it somehow gets into another offseason he’ll be an extremely negative contract. Not sure how long PHI can afford to string this out frankly. It’ll be interesting to follow.

Ultimately, I’m not saying the Wolves will have the 6ers preferred offer for Ben. Not trying to convince you of that because what would that accomplish? I’m saying that, as someone who follows that team closely, there is no way they’ll offer Edwards.

Is there an inside leak or a public statement that Edwards is off the table? Not saying you're wrong - you certainly follow the Wolves more than we do. Just saying that the conventional wisdom on message boards and local talk radio doesn't always match up with what the GM/owner say.

[eyeatoma]

We’re not getting SGA even for Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We can maybe get fox for Maxey, Thybulle, a first or two, and Ben. Edwards the same, probably costs at least 2 firsts on top of Ben.

That's the Harden or Lillard package, it won't be that much.

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[the_process]

Minnesota isn’t giving up Edwards. They’d move KAT first.

That would be dumb.

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Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, it’s there to illustrate how untouchable Edwards is for the Wolves.

I disagree. I think it’s possible, albeit unlikely because they know the fans wouldn’t trade Edwards for anything.

I mean, the article clearly stated that Gupta had the backing of ownership, management, and KAT.

No mention of Edwards.

Minny ownership wants to make a splash.

To answer your question from the other thread; if the best offer was Brogdon and Levert, then the Sixers are better off just holding on to Simmons forever.

[the_process]

Then the wolves shouldn't bother asking for Ben unless they can get a third team in, because the rest they have to offer makes zero sense for Philly.

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Doesn’t seem like any of the 4-5 teams who have interest in Simmons are willing to move anyone critical from their team. Not sure how that’s going to change. I mean, he’s gonna just sit. How long can they afford no production from 30-35m in cap? Do you think this stretches to the deadline? Do you think his value will somehow be higher by then?

I feel the longer this goes the lower his value gets and by some crazy chance it somehow gets into another offseason he’ll be an extremely negative contract. Not sure how long PHI can afford to string this out frankly. It’ll be interesting to follow.

Ultimately, I’m not saying the Wolves will have the 6ers preferred offer for Ben. Not trying to convince you of that because what would that accomplish? I’m saying that, as someone who follows that team closely, there is no way they’ll offer Edwards.

Is there an inside leak or a public statement that Edwards is off the table? Not saying you're wrong - you certainly follow the Wolves more than we do. Just saying that the conventional wisdom on message boards and local talk radio doesn't always match up with what the GM/owner say.

Minnesota fans would rather trade KAT than Edwards. It’s unlikely management there feels the same.

[FlyingArrow]

We’re not getting SGA even for Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We can maybe get fox for Maxey, Thybulle, a first or two, and Ben. Edwards the same, probably costs at least 2 firsts on top of Ben.

That's the Harden or Lillard package, it won't be that much.

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That's considerably more than the Harden package. HOU got:

Dante Exum
2022 FRP (MIL)
Victor Oladipo
2021, 23, 25, 27 swaps (BKN)
2022, 24, 26 FRP (BKN)

Dante Exum isn't worth a FRP. Of the four FRPs they got, the two in 2022 aren't likely to be worth much since MIL and BKN are two of the strongest teams in the league. So it's Oladipo, two good firsts and four swaps... of which they will probably exercise only 1 or 2 (if any). Oladipo was an expiring contract, so probably only worth 1 FRP at the time. (He was traded to Miami a couple months later.)

Let's try to convert this trade into a single 'currency' of a first-round equivalent (FRE), meaning a #15 average first-round pick. Obviously these are just my estimates:

(0.05 FRE) Dante Exum
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (MIL)
(1.0 FRE) Victor Oladipo
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (BRK)
(1.0 FRE) 2024 FRP (BKN)
(1.0 FRE) 2026 FRP (BKN)
(0.0 FRE) 2021 swap (BKN)
(0.05 FRE) 2023 swap (BKN)
(0.25 FRE) 2025 swap (BKN)
(0.5 FRE) 2027 swap (BKN)

Adds up to 4.85 FRE. Let's call it an even 5. Or we could ignore the discounts on the MIL and BKN picks and swaps - just call a swap equal to 0.5 FRE. Then it adds up to 7 FRE. So somewhere between 5 and 7 FRE depending on how you count it.

Now consider the proposed SGA trade: Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We're also a good team, so we can just say our picks are worth the same as BKN and MIL. If anything, PHL picks are worth more due to Embiid's injury risk. Ben as a player isn't worth close to what James Harden is, but his youth and contract status get him in the ballpark as a trade asset. Probably 4-6 FRE before the playoffs, and Ben's worth 3-5 FRE after the playoffs. Maxey and Thybulle are both young guys on great rookie contracts with potential. 1 FRE each. There's a lot of wiggle room on how you evaluate these things, but at a minimum, that's 8 FRE. Or with the high estimates and without discounting the FRPs, it's 11.5 FRE.

The Harden trade was 5 to 7 FRE.
The Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, Maxey, Thybulle proposal is 8 to 11.5 FRE.

SGA is not worth that much more than Harden. Even with a disgruntled Harden and SGA on a great contract.

[kuclas]

Maybe, maybe not.

Regardless, it’s there to illustrate how untouchable Edwards is for the Wolves.

Then the wolves shouldn't bother asking for Ben unless they can get a third team in, because the rest they have to offer makes zero sense for Philly.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Doesn’t seem like any of the 4-5 teams who have interest in Simmons are willing to move anyone critical from their team. Not sure how that’s going to change. I mean, he’s gonna just sit. How long can they afford no production from 30-35m in cap? Do you think this stretches to the deadline? Do you think his value will somehow be higher by then?

I feel the longer this goes the lower his value gets and by some crazy chance it somehow gets into another offseason he’ll be an extremely negative contract. Not sure how long PHI can afford to string this out frankly. It’ll be interesting to follow.

Ultimately, I’m not saying the Wolves will have the 6ers preferred offer for Ben. Not trying to convince you of that because what would that accomplish? I’m saying that, as someone who follows that team closely, there is no way they’ll offer Edwards.

Timberwolves core players if Simmons is traded will be 25/26/25/20. Future draft picks mean nothing if their core players are that young. That’s why wolves have nothing to offer. And we don’t want Russell. So ignoring Russell you have soon to be 26 year old KAT, 25 year old Simmons and just turned 20 Edwards.

This isn’t 36/37 year old pierce/kg team offering future picks.

I’m not interested in Edwards. He’s maybe 2 years away. He was high usage when timberwolves had KAT and Russell injured. He’s a slasher. Average ball handler for now. Lots of potential. That’s what Edwards is. Potential. You allow any rookie to jack up 17 shots a game. He’s gonna to score 19 points A game.

[the_process]

Looking forward to seeing Ant-Man in his Sixers jersey.

I agree with the sentiment.

[the_process]

Then the wolves shouldn't bother asking for Ben unless they can get a third team in, because the rest they have to offer makes zero sense for Philly.

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Doesn’t seem like any of the 4-5 teams who have interest in Simmons are willing to move anyone critical from their team. Not sure how that’s going to change. I mean, he’s gonna just sit. How long can they afford no production from 30-35m in cap? Do you think this stretches to the deadline? Do you think his value will somehow be higher by then?

I feel the longer this goes the lower his value gets and by some crazy chance it somehow gets into another offseason he’ll be an extremely negative contract. Not sure how long PHI can afford to string this out frankly. It’ll be interesting to follow.

Ultimately, I’m not saying the Wolves will have the 6ers preferred offer for Ben. Not trying to convince you of that because what would that accomplish? I’m saying that, as someone who follows that team closely, there is no way they’ll offer Edwards.

Timberwolves core players if Simmons is traded will be 25/26/25/20. Future draft picks mean nothing if their core players are that young. That’s why wolves have nothing to offer. And we don’t want Russell. So ignoring Russell you have soon to be 26 year old KAT, 25 year old Simmons and just turned 20 Edwards.

This isn’t 36/37 year old pierce/kg team offering future picks.

I’m not interested in Edwards. He’s maybe 2 years away. He was high usage when timberwolves had KAT and Russell injured. He’s a slasher. Average ball handler for now. Lots of potential. That’s what Edwards is. Potential. You allow any rookie to jack up 17 shots a game. He’s gonna to score 19 points A game.

Edwards is a valuable asset.

[kuclas]

Doesn’t seem like any of the 4-5 teams who have interest in Simmons are willing to move anyone critical from their team. Not sure how that’s going to change. I mean, he’s gonna just sit. How long can they afford no production from 30-35m in cap? Do you think this stretches to the deadline? Do you think his value will somehow be higher by then?

I feel the longer this goes the lower his value gets and by some crazy chance it somehow gets into another offseason he’ll be an extremely negative contract. Not sure how long PHI can afford to string this out frankly. It’ll be interesting to follow.

Ultimately, I’m not saying the Wolves will have the 6ers preferred offer for Ben. Not trying to convince you of that because what would that accomplish? I’m saying that, as someone who follows that team closely, there is no way they’ll offer Edwards.

Timberwolves core players if Simmons is traded will be 25/26/25/20. Future draft picks mean nothing if their core players are that young. That’s why wolves have nothing to offer. And we don’t want Russell. So ignoring Russell you have soon to be 26 year old KAT, 25 year old Simmons and just turned 20 Edwards.

This isn’t 36/37 year old pierce/kg team offering future picks.

I’m not interested in Edwards. He’s maybe 2 years away. He was high usage when timberwolves had KAT and Russell injured. He’s a slasher. Average ball handler for now. Lots of potential. That’s what Edwards is. Potential. You allow any rookie to jack up 17 shots a game. He’s gonna to score 19 points A game.

Edwards is a valuable asset.

For now. Players get exposed in playoffs.

Not saying he won’t be a very good player. But people are so high on him thinking he’s the next d wade. Let’s see him play this season. Very average shooter. He’s got some hops for sure and willing to drive to the rim.

[Sportfan73]

We’re not getting SGA even for Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We can maybe get fox for Maxey, Thybulle, a first or two, and Ben. Edwards the same, probably costs at least 2 firsts on top of Ben.

That's the Harden or Lillard package, it won't be that much.

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That's considerably more than the Harden package. HOU got:

Dante Exum
2022 FRP (MIL)
Victor Oladipo
2021, 23, 25, 27 swaps (BKN)
2022, 24, 26 FRP (BKN)

Dante Exum isn't worth a FRP. Of the four FRPs they got, the two in 2022 aren't likely to be worth much since MIL and BKN are two of the strongest teams in the league. So it's Oladipo, two good firsts and four swaps... of which they will probably exercise only 1 or 2 (if any). Oladipo was an expiring contract, so probably only worth 1 FRP at the time. (He was traded to Miami a couple months later.)

Let's try to convert this trade into a single 'currency' of a first-round equivalent (FRE), meaning a #15 average first-round pick. Obviously these are just my estimates:

(0.05 FRE) Dante Exum
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (MIL)
(1.0 FRE) Victor Oladipo
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (BRK)
(1.0 FRE) 2024 FRP (BKN)
(1.0 FRE) 2026 FRP (BKN)
(0.0 FRE) 2021 swap (BKN)
(0.05 FRE) 2023 swap (BKN)
(0.25 FRE) 2025 swap (BKN)
(0.5 FRE) 2027 swap (BKN)

Adds up to 4.85 FRE. Let's call it an even 5. Or we could ignore the discounts on the MIL and BKN picks and swaps - just call a swap equal to 0.5 FRE. Then it adds up to 7 FRE. So somewhere between 5 and 7 FRE depending on how you count it.

Now consider the proposed SGA trade: Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We're also a good team, so we can just say our picks are worth the same as BKN and MIL. If anything, PHL picks are worth more due to Embiid's injury risk. Ben as a player isn't worth close to what James Harden is, but his youth and contract status get him in the ballpark as a trade asset. Probably 4-6 FRE before the playoffs, and Ben's worth 3-5 FRE after the playoffs. Maxey and Thybulle are both young guys on great rookie contracts with potential. 1 FRE each. There's a lot of wiggle room on how you evaluate these things, but at a minimum, that's 8 FRE. Or with the high estimates and without discounting the FRPs, it's 11.5 FRE.

The Harden trade was 5 to 7 FRE.
The Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, Maxey, Thybulle proposal is 8 to 11.5 FRE.

SGA is not worth that much more than Harden. Even with a disgruntled Harden and SGA on a great contract.

SGA is 23 and locked up for 6 years. Just had an incredibly efficient breakout season. Harden was disgruntled, locked up for 2 years, and 31

[eyeatoma]

That's the Harden or Lillard package, it won't be that much.

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That's considerably more than the Harden package. HOU got:

Dante Exum
2022 FRP (MIL)
Victor Oladipo
2021, 23, 25, 27 swaps (BKN)
2022, 24, 26 FRP (BKN)

Dante Exum isn't worth a FRP. Of the four FRPs they got, the two in 2022 aren't likely to be worth much since MIL and BKN are two of the strongest teams in the league. So it's Oladipo, two good firsts and four swaps... of which they will probably exercise only 1 or 2 (if any). Oladipo was an expiring contract, so probably only worth 1 FRP at the time. (He was traded to Miami a couple months later.)

Let's try to convert this trade into a single 'currency' of a first-round equivalent (FRE), meaning a #15 average first-round pick. Obviously these are just my estimates:

(0.05 FRE) Dante Exum
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (MIL)
(1.0 FRE) Victor Oladipo
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (BRK)
(1.0 FRE) 2024 FRP (BKN)
(1.0 FRE) 2026 FRP (BKN)
(0.0 FRE) 2021 swap (BKN)
(0.05 FRE) 2023 swap (BKN)
(0.25 FRE) 2025 swap (BKN)
(0.5 FRE) 2027 swap (BKN)

Adds up to 4.85 FRE. Let's call it an even 5. Or we could ignore the discounts on the MIL and BKN picks and swaps - just call a swap equal to 0.5 FRE. Then it adds up to 7 FRE. So somewhere between 5 and 7 FRE depending on how you count it.

Now consider the proposed SGA trade: Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We're also a good team, so we can just say our picks are worth the same as BKN and MIL. If anything, PHL picks are worth more due to Embiid's injury risk. Ben as a player isn't worth close to what James Harden is, but his youth and contract status get him in the ballpark as a trade asset. Probably 4-6 FRE before the playoffs, and Ben's worth 3-5 FRE after the playoffs. Maxey and Thybulle are both young guys on great rookie contracts with potential. 1 FRE each. There's a lot of wiggle room on how you evaluate these things, but at a minimum, that's 8 FRE. Or with the high estimates and without discounting the FRPs, it's 11.5 FRE.

The Harden trade was 5 to 7 FRE.
The Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, Maxey, Thybulle proposal is 8 to 11.5 FRE.

SGA is not worth that much more than Harden. Even with a disgruntled Harden and SGA on a great contract.

SGA is 23 and locked up for 6 years. Just had an incredibly efficient breakout season. Harden was disgruntled, locked up for 2 years, and 31

James Harden is also one of the greatest scorers of all time. SGA will never come close to him. Harden was fine in the Nets, and still has a few years of his prime left. At this moment he is worth more than SGA, potential or not.

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[Sportfan73]

That's considerably more than the Harden package. HOU got:

Dante Exum
2022 FRP (MIL)
Victor Oladipo
2021, 23, 25, 27 swaps (BKN)
2022, 24, 26 FRP (BKN)

Dante Exum isn't worth a FRP. Of the four FRPs they got, the two in 2022 aren't likely to be worth much since MIL and BKN are two of the strongest teams in the league. So it's Oladipo, two good firsts and four swaps... of which they will probably exercise only 1 or 2 (if any). Oladipo was an expiring contract, so probably only worth 1 FRP at the time. (He was traded to Miami a couple months later.)

Let's try to convert this trade into a single 'currency' of a first-round equivalent (FRE), meaning a #15 average first-round pick. Obviously these are just my estimates:

(0.05 FRE) Dante Exum
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (MIL)
(1.0 FRE) Victor Oladipo
(0.5 FRE) 2022 FRP (BRK)
(1.0 FRE) 2024 FRP (BKN)
(1.0 FRE) 2026 FRP (BKN)
(0.0 FRE) 2021 swap (BKN)
(0.05 FRE) 2023 swap (BKN)
(0.25 FRE) 2025 swap (BKN)
(0.5 FRE) 2027 swap (BKN)

Adds up to 4.85 FRE. Let's call it an even 5. Or we could ignore the discounts on the MIL and BKN picks and swaps - just call a swap equal to 0.5 FRE. Then it adds up to 7 FRE. So somewhere between 5 and 7 FRE depending on how you count it.

Now consider the proposed SGA trade: Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, maxey, and Thybulle. We're also a good team, so we can just say our picks are worth the same as BKN and MIL. If anything, PHL picks are worth more due to Embiid's injury risk. Ben as a player isn't worth close to what James Harden is, but his youth and contract status get him in the ballpark as a trade asset. Probably 4-6 FRE before the playoffs, and Ben's worth 3-5 FRE after the playoffs. Maxey and Thybulle are both young guys on great rookie contracts with potential. 1 FRE each. There's a lot of wiggle room on how you evaluate these things, but at a minimum, that's 8 FRE. Or with the high estimates and without discounting the FRPs, it's 11.5 FRE.

The Harden trade was 5 to 7 FRE.
The Ben, 3 firsts, 3 swaps, Maxey, Thybulle proposal is 8 to 11.5 FRE.

SGA is not worth that much more than Harden. Even with a disgruntled Harden and SGA on a great contract.

SGA is 23 and locked up for 6 years. Just had an incredibly efficient breakout season. Harden was disgruntled, locked up for 2 years, and 31

James Harden is also one of the greatest scorers of all time. SGA will never come close to him. Harden was fine in the Nets, and still has a few years of his prime left. At this moment he is worth more than SGA, potential or not.

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There’s no way you believe harden is worth more trade value wise right? Like yeah he’s better and contributes more to winning but.. uhhh he’s on an expiring deal

[eyeatoma]

SGA is 23 and locked up for 6 years. Just had an incredibly efficient breakout season. Harden was disgruntled, locked up for 2 years, and 31

James Harden is also one of the greatest scorers of all time. SGA will never come close to him. Harden was fine in the Nets, and still has a few years of his prime left. At this moment he is worth more than SGA, potential or not.

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There’s no way you believe harden is worth more trade value wise right? Like yeah he’s better and contributes more to winning but.. uhhh he’s on an expiring deal

Not now, but last year he was.

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[76ciology]

I could also make an exception for a super charismatic guy. Like say Draymond, for instance. Not sure why a Golden State fan would wear any jersey other than Steph or Klay, though.

Bottom line, rock jerseys of the main even playas, not the undercarders.

But if you live outside US, it’s cooler to have jerseys of undercarders. I remember how cool it was to have a Lakers Dennis Rodman jersey back then. Having jerseys of rookie players are also cool, I bought Ben and Fultz jersey immediately after they were drafted.

I usually buy jerseys of 3pt shooters and wear them when im playing, because of my playing style. So i have my Redick and Curry jerseys for that. Recently, been taking a lot of stepback jumpers, so i bought a doncic jersey. Then when im having an off game, i usually switch to my Ben or Fultz jersey just to lighten the mood for everyone.

[Rastas]

Out of curiosity - how would Philly fans value Embiids contract going forward.
21/22 - $31.6m
22/23 - $33.6m
23/24 - $43.7m
24/25 - $47.2m
25/26 - $50.7m
26/27 - $54.2m
Good / Even / Negative value.
Are any worried it may become a huge Untradeable Ball n Chain in a year or 2.
I post this as I read some here claim Joel may ask for a trade next season if things go south - however I personally think in another 12 months that contract is going to be supa hard to move.