ImageImageImage

Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, sixers hoops, Foshan, Sixerscan

Slacktard
RealGM
Posts: 13,379
And1: 24,289
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
         

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#301 » by Slacktard » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:37 pm

kriss73 wrote:Interesting note by Hollinger on Sixers' cap situation:

"Oubre doesn’t necessarily need to go into the room exception … and further, that Andre Drummond’s new contract happens to be the for the exact amount of the taxpayer midlevel exception. In other words, Drummond and Oubre could swap places in the cap sheet."

"it would let the Sixers spend up to the second tax apron rather than the first."

"Philadelphia could waive Reed, keep Martin on the books, use cap space for Oubre’s deal, and spend $5.1 million in cap room on another player or players. Then, when they’re done using room, they could sign Martin to a one-year deal worth up to $19.7 million (any more would push them past the second apron) with a second-year team option, essentially using his contract as an in-season trade chip similar to how Indiana did Bruce Brown’s deal last summer.

The Sixers would be hard-capped at the second apron rather than the first apron in this scenario and could trade Martin for any player making less than that $19.7 million amount."


In other words:

1. cut (or trade for a pick) Reed
2. sign Oubre with cap room
3. sign onether player with 4.8M salary (Taxpayer MLE)
4. Sign Martin up to 19M and use him as trade chip in season


If they sign KJ Martin to that $19.7m deal they're over the cap and KJ Martin becomes a BYC player for the 2024-2025 season which means when he's traded he counts as half his actual salary. So his out-going salary would be considered $9.85m. If the Sixers are only allowed to acquire equal or less salary in trade then I think it would need to be at $9.85m or below. Which would mean the Sixers could only trade with teams that had cap space because they'd be trading the Sixers a $9.85M player while absorbing KJ Martin's $19.7m even though it is considered a matching salary in the trade itself.
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 28,787
And1: 9,703
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#302 » by youngcrev » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:37 pm

Also, in terms of just giving KJ Martin a huge balloon payment to trade later: I'm pretty sure you run into BYC issues, where his salary counts for 100% for the team receiving but only 50% for us, making matching salaries more difficult

Edit: what he said ^^^^
kriss73
Analyst
Posts: 3,453
And1: 1,939
Joined: Jul 25, 2015
       

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#303 » by kriss73 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:44 pm

youngcrev wrote:Also, in terms of just giving KJ Martin a huge balloon payment to trade later: I'm pretty sure you run into BYC issues, where his salary counts for 100% for the team receiving but only 50% for us, making matching salaries more difficult

Edit: what he said ^^^^


Ask Hollinger...but regarding the BYC: doesn't it apply only for a sign&trade?
Here he suggests to sign KJ make him play until February and then trade him.

I think it's different in this case but I'm not a capologist

EDIT: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

In lieu of the previous BYC rules for ordinary trades, teams are now prohibited from trading players for three months or until January 15 (whichever is later), instead of December 15, when the signing satisfies the BYC critieria
Adam Silver wrote:"Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not."
Slacktard
RealGM
Posts: 13,379
And1: 24,289
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
         

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#304 » by Slacktard » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:45 pm

youngcrev wrote:Also, in terms of just giving KJ Martin a huge balloon payment to trade later: I'm pretty sure you run into BYC issues, where his salary counts for 100% for the team receiving but only 50% for us, making matching salaries more difficult

Edit: what he said ^^^^


I think the KJ Martin "Godilocks" scenarios are a bit far-fetched, but IMO if they're going to happen it will be in a S&T this summer. I don't see the Sixers giving him an inflated value and then having those restrictions on trading him while also carrying an inflated salary. At some point if they are unable to work out a trade they may very well need to attach a pick to move his salary at the deadline just to duck back under the 2nd apron so they don't finish the regular season above it and have the draft pick freeze for no reason.
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 28,787
And1: 9,703
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#305 » by youngcrev » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:53 pm

Slacktard wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Also, in terms of just giving KJ Martin a huge balloon payment to trade later: I'm pretty sure you run into BYC issues, where his salary counts for 100% for the team receiving but only 50% for us, making matching salaries more difficult

Edit: what he said ^^^^


I think the KJ Martin "Godilocks" scenarios are a bit far-fetched, but IMO if they're going to happen it will be in a S&T this summer. I don't see the Sixers giving him an inflated value and then having those restrictions on trading him while also carrying an inflated salary. At some point if they are unable to work out a trade they may very well need to attach a pick to move his salary at the deadline just to duck back under the 2nd apron so they don't finish the regular season above it and have the draft pick freeze for no reason.


Yeah, I didn't even think about that aspect.
Slacktard
RealGM
Posts: 13,379
And1: 24,289
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
         

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#306 » by Slacktard » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:55 pm

kriss73 wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Also, in terms of just giving KJ Martin a huge balloon payment to trade later: I'm pretty sure you run into BYC issues, where his salary counts for 100% for the team receiving but only 50% for us, making matching salaries more difficult

Edit: what he said ^^^^


Ask Hollinger...but regarding the BYC: doesn't it apply only for a sign&trade?
Here he suggests to sign KJ make him play until February and then trade him.

I think it's different in this case but I'm not a capologist

EDIT: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

In lieu of the previous BYC rules for ordinary trades, teams are now prohibited from trading players for three months or until January 15 (whichever is later), instead of December 15, when the signing satisfies the BYC critieria


That just changed the freeze on signing a player who becomes a BYC and when you can then trade them later in the season. Last year if you signed a player who became a BYC they were not eligible to be traded until December 15th. Now it's pushed back a month and they can't be traded until January 15th. If you look at that link the entire paragraph above that line explains the BYC process still exists.

Here's the more technical terms from the CBA itself that was adapted last year. I posted earlier today in response to another poster

Spoiler:
(5) If (x) a Qualifying Veteran Free Agent or Early Qualifying
Veteran Free Agent and his prior Team enter into a Player Contract,
in accordance with Section 6(b)(1) or (3) above, in connection with
an agreement to trade the Contract in accordance with Section 8(e)
below, (y) the Team’s Team Salary immediately following such
Contract signing is above the Salary Cap, and (z) the new Contract
to be traded provides for Salary and Unlikely Bonuses for the first
Season of such Contract in excess of the Salary and Unlikely
Bonuses that could have been provided for by the Contract had the
player been a Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent and the Contract
had been signed pursuant to Section 6(b)(2) above, then for
purposes of calculating the assignor Team’s Traded Player
Exception, the player’s Salary shall be deemed equal to the greater
of (i) the Salary for the last Season of his preceding Contract, or
(ii) fifty percent (50%) of the Salary for the first Season of his new
Contract. For purposes of this Section 6(j)(5), if the player’s
immediately prior Contract was a one-year Contract that provided
for Salary equal to the Minimum Player Salary (with no bonuses of
any kind), the player’s prior Salary shall include the portion of the
Minimum Player Salary, if any, that was reimbursed out of the
League-wide benefits fund described in Article IV, Section 6(h).


The "Qualifying Veteran Free Agent" is your bird rights player. If the team signing such a player is either over the salary cap or goes over the cap while signing that player. The salary of that player for that FIRST YEAR of their contract is then treated as either 50% of the previous season's salary, or equal to the previous season's salary. Whichever is greater.

So players maintain that BYC status for the entirety of the first year of their contract.

(It's certainly possible I'm wrong and misinterpreted it reading and posting the actual CBA... but I do think that CBA FAQ link you provided still having the BYC section kinda proves that it still exists anyway)
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 66,324
And1: 27,213
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#307 » by 76ciology » Tue Jul 2, 2024 8:57 pm

Tillman signs 2 year deal with Celts
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
Murray_17
RealGM
Posts: 14,081
And1: 14,285
Joined: Mar 20, 2020
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#308 » by Murray_17 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:01 pm

Monte Morris agreeing with the Suns probably means Lowry comes back
Iscull
Rookie
Posts: 1,182
And1: 556
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
     

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#309 » by Iscull » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:05 pm

Cam Payne vet min?
kriss73
Analyst
Posts: 3,453
And1: 1,939
Joined: Jul 25, 2015
       

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#310 » by kriss73 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:08 pm

Slacktard wrote:
(It's certainly possible I'm wrong and misinterpreted it reading and posting the actual CBA... but I do think that CBA FAQ link you provided still having the BYC section kinda proves that it still exists anyway)


Honestly I don't know.
But Hollinger in his sentence doesn't refer to the BYC.
So either he misunderstood the rule or the BCY rule doesn't apply in this case.

Either way, they will never reach the second apron in this senario so limitations in season will be lighter.
The KJ contract will be a club option in year 2 and 3 of course
Adam Silver wrote:"Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not."
kriss73
Analyst
Posts: 3,453
And1: 1,939
Joined: Jul 25, 2015
       

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#311 » by kriss73 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:09 pm

Adam Silver wrote:"Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not."
Slacktard
RealGM
Posts: 13,379
And1: 24,289
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
         

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#312 » by Slacktard » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:13 pm



Ok. So Cam Payne won't be back. What about Terry Johnson? 8-)
Black Mage
Head Coach
Posts: 6,077
And1: 5,733
Joined: Feb 24, 2017
       

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#313 » by Black Mage » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:28 pm

Slacktard wrote:


Ok. So Cam Payne won't be back. What about Terry Johnson? 8-)


Yeah, I don't see us making any additional signings until after we figure out Reed/Martin. Either players are still hoping to find more than a vet min offer and we're waiting that out or Morey is cooking up his last big move before scouring vet mins.
Murray_17
RealGM
Posts: 14,081
And1: 14,285
Joined: Mar 20, 2020
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#314 » by Murray_17 » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:29 pm

Everyone and their mother is trying to avoid the second apron, i don't get why would we give a dumb contract to KJ Martin and get on the second apron so we can just make one more trade.


Sound like something a dumb guy trying to sound clever would say.
User avatar
ProcessDoctor
RealGM
Posts: 11,697
And1: 6,443
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
   

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#315 » by ProcessDoctor » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:40 pm

Wow at Isaac’s extension.
2025-2026 Philadelphia 76ers:

Maxey/McCain/Lowry
Edgecombe/Grimes/Gordon
George/Oubre/Edwards
Watford/Barlow/Walker
Embiid/Drummond/Bona/Broome
Black Mage
Head Coach
Posts: 6,077
And1: 5,733
Joined: Feb 24, 2017
       

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#316 » by Black Mage » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:42 pm

Read on Twitter


Just when I thought the Magic weren't gonna be the Magic any longer.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 40,844
And1: 20,005
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#317 » by Kobblehead » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:43 pm

The hell were they thinking....

Jonathan Isaac is a major injury risk and he was 6 ppg player in the playoffs. Virtually no impact whatsoever.
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 26,675
And1: 17,294
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#318 » by Negrodamus » Tue Jul 2, 2024 9:44 pm

Black Mage wrote:
Read on Twitter


Just when I thought the Magic weren't gonna be the Magic any longer.


And drafted another oversized forward. Not sure what the plan is.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 66,324
And1: 27,213
Joined: Jun 06, 2002

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#319 » by 76ciology » Tue Jul 2, 2024 10:05 pm

Maxey/Lowry
Kelly Oubre/Gordon/McCain
Paul George/Ricky Council
Dorian Finney Smith/Hopefully Saric
Joel Embiid/Drummond/Bona

Seems like DFS is a really good fit right now. Maybe worth unloading the 2026 OKC 1st and adding 2026 pick swap (which wont matter).

DFS played some C for the Nets last season
There’s never been a time in history when we look back and say that the people who were censoring free speech were the good guys.
ExplosionsInDaSky
RealGM
Posts: 21,410
And1: 5,526
Joined: Mar 17, 2004

Re: Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4 

Post#320 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Tue Jul 2, 2024 10:09 pm

There are some names available and some of those guys will still be out there into August and possibly later. At that point, they'll be willing to take less money to stay in the league. It happened with Oubre last year and it'll happen again with a few of these guys. My guess is Morey will land another gem later on in the summer. As of right now, I don't expect much for at least another two weeks. Yeah it's intriguing, but I think this is partly a chess game on the part of Morey. Once guys get desperate for work, he'll start adding again. It's shrewd, but a good tactic. It worked amazingly with Oubre.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers