2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[OleSchool]

This is all basic stuff that I’d hope he’d be able to do as a guard that’s a potential NBA lottery pick.

LMAO come on man. That ain't basic for a SG. If Bailey could pass like that he'd be in convo with Flagg for 1 lmao

I appreciate you still having my quotes from 8-10 years ago. Clearly taken out of context, but still....

Out of context??? Those 3 posts are literally back to back posting that YOU posted lmao

[OleSchool]

Kon is gonna get called for a lot of offensive fouls. Watch how many times he two arm shoves his defender before making his break to get the pass. He also loves that chicken wing.

Have you watched any playoff basketball? The NBA is a physical league. Guys bump and push each other to try and create shots many times per game. It's not a bad thing that Kon actually has a good frame for doing this and is actually good at it.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

It just seems pretty tough to please the critics. They say Kon can't create any offense, but when shown evidence that he can (including in games where Flagg wasn't playing) they then claim that these examples don't count and move the goal posts.

We'll see what happens I guess. I think Morey has a great track record and has earned the benefit of the doubt with his draft selections.

There's tough and then there's what Kon does which is a fully extended one or two arm shove which is going to get called a lot.

Second, I saw a lot of Kon barely getting a slight lead on his single defender when driving. He looks horribly slow and NBA defenses are going to recover and cut those drives and double and triple fakes off. He tries that stuff in the lane against NBA length and athleticism and he's going to get smothered.

He's at best a 7-10 range pick; he should not be in any conversation for pick #3. The only reason Vecenie had him at 3 was b/c he was projecting Kon's own pull-up failures onto VJ (embarrassing mistake for a "respected" sports reporter btw).

There was one play early in that highlight clip. Kon was on D, the point guard threw a bad pass to the man Kon was guarding, well it was either a bad pass or the SG shouldn't been closer to the 3 point line, either way. The ball bounced off the players hand, Kon was able to bring it in for the steal and start a fast break.

The point guard who threw the bad pass not only caught up to Kon but actually was able to get in Front of him and set up for a charging. I think it would've been called a defensive foul cause he was too close to the basket.

Kon stops and pulls up. Which is "fine" but Kon should've posterized that kid. He had a full head of steam but instead he stops and banks it in

[sodmoraes]

Question for who wants to draft VJ. I know already why do you guys dont want Ace, but why do you prefer him than Tre? I know his athletic abilities are higher, he has more burst and can be a pretty good defensive player, but his offensive game is way more limited than Tre, and i dont know if he can improve it a lot.

In the other hand, we dont know if Tre can improve his driving game, so he can be limited to a shooter, while VJ drive game is way stronger. His defensive sucks too, but i just dont value defensive in guards that much. Anyways, since Tre scored well in the Combine, i think he can improve his driving game so it can be decent, and even if his defense doesnt improve he has a great skill already ( shooting), while i think the path to be an allstar seems harder for VJ, because he needs to improve alot his handle, dribble and shooting off the dribble.

[OleSchool]

There are no offensive hub players outside of Harper and Cooper. So if you want our pick to have "hub" potential you gotta trade up or hope Spurs jump on someone not named Harper.

I also don't agree that the Sixers as constructed need a play creator as much as they need players who can stress and bend a defense creating advantages for the offense to make scoring easier. You do this by making a defense have to rotate unexpectedly. The easiest way to create defensive stress is your traditional play creating point guard getting to the lane via the dribble or a PNR (its why Harper is so valuable). However, you can also create stress on a defense if you have skilled off-ball offensive threats.

Off-ball stress can come at 3 different levels; behind the arc, mid-range and at the rim. Ace is the only prospect of those we're looking at (Kon, Tre, VJ being the others) that is capable of putting stress at all 3 of these levels. He's a more than capable motion C&S from 3 player. I think VJ is a better lob threat; but Ace showed better spatial awareness and timing as an off-ball cutter. Ace is the only one that consistently hit on motion C&S from the mid-range.

Ace's off-ball value would provide the Sixers with an element they don't have right now. Sure the Sixers have Maxey and McCain who great off-ball threats, but Ace brings size to table that the other two don't which allows him to be a bigger threat at he rim and in the mid-range where shooting over a defender is important.

Ok and that's fair points. It just seems we're looking for 2 different things from our SF. which is fine, more than one way to skin a cat.

[OleSchool]

Question for who wants to draft VJ. I know already why do you guys dont want Ace, but why do you prefer him than Tre? I know his athletic abilities are higher, he has more bust and can be a pretty good defensive player, but his offensive game is way more limited than Tre, and i dont know if he can improve it a lot.

In the other hand, we dont know if Tre can improve his driving game, so he can be limited to a shooter, while VJ drive game is way stronger. His defensive sucks too, but i just dont value defensive in guards that much. Anyways, since Tre scored well in the Combine, i think he can improve his driving game so it can be decent, and even if his defense doesnt improve he has a great skill already ( shooting), while i think the path to be an allstar seems harder for VJ, because he needs to improve alot his handle, dribble and shooting off the dribble.

Tre doesn't play a lick of defense or really drive so he probably won't get to the line that often. Now, he's young and you keep pounding into him to "take it to the hole young fella" so the driving "may not" be a problem.

The defense is another issue. It's not that he's bad at it he just doesn't play it Lol. Maybe he doesn't have the awareness, maybe he's saving his energy for offense, maybe he's scared of contact? Idk what the reason is. But taking a kid like that were going to have to build a very specific team around him. Think the sixers the King and Brown built around AI. And NO I'm not saying Tre is as talented as Iverson but you will need defensive players all around him to cover up for his D

[Iscull]

If Ace has a career similar to Luol Deng, would anyone be disappointed in that?

For a #3 overall, yes.

I’d argue Justin Edwards may be on a path to have a similar career to Deng.

Although i think we should draft Ace, one of the reasons i´m ok with drafting Tre or trading up to get Harper is that i´m pretty high on Edwards too. He totally stole Council´s lunch money by the end of the season, and got almost all his minutes. He was shooting pretty good from 3( and even showed some off the dribble juice) and was defending well too.

Watch on YouTube

I dont think he has the same potential as Ace, since he lacks the athletic ability and isnt that big as bailey, but he was a 5 star prospect in the high school, so he has good pedigree. And he trained with Maxey this year, so he will probably be in pretty good shape this season. If we dont get Ace, i can see him playing 25 MPG this year.

I'm high on Edwards. He progressed really well over the course of the season and seemingly committed to working out hard this off-season as shown with Maxey. 99% of the time, this stuff is overblown puff. That said, Edwards looked in legitimately better shape (Skinner Face, Stronger). He could finally be tapping into the potential he had as a former 5 Star. I don't think that talent ever goes away, it's a question if you want to work to maximize it or not.

I bet he was down on himself after a poor freshman year at Kentucky. Going from a top recruit to undrafted in one year would crater a lot of guys confidence and interest in the game. I love that he came home (To Philly), kept at it, and is working to get better. This is the type of guy you want to root for.

Candidly, I do not know enough about AB to have an opinion. I have read some poor things about his personality, which to me is a non-starter. So many of the guys in these drafts have talent, the mental make-up and work ethic are what push guys over the edge. In my non-expert opinion, that's why I'd lean towards VJ or Tre.

[youngcrev]

Edwards was a nice surprise and looks like a rotational wing, but I certainly wouldn't count on him being anything more than that. I feel ok about him being a 9th or 10th man going into the season.

[Iscull]

But getting rid of PG does nothing for the salary cap. He's a sunk cost. Maybe at the trade deadline on his last year we might be able to get something but I doubt it.

We're stuck with PG and Joel till the end of their contracts. Unless Joel medically retires then moving PG becomes more important for salary cap reasons

You're simply not understanding why we want to trade PG.

1) We do not think he is a capable basketball player anymore and it will only get worse with age. We can agree to disagree, but he's a waste on the roster - especially at $50MM.

2) Picks aside, if we can trade him for something akin to Cam Johnson and Claxton (Maybe we can get more), I think that's an overall team upgrade. We get younger, deeper, and more cap flexibility.

3) His contract is an albatross and it's difficult to trade under the new CBA. By trading him for 2-3 players making the same aggregate amount, we open up the ability to trade for a wider net of players making lower to middle salaries. As an example and in theory, we could swap Cam Johnson for Deni Avidja and Robert Williams.

4) Stats and contracts aside, PG doesn't give a **** about playing hard anymore and it's a negative impact on the team and lockerroom, which already has issues with Embiid.

[Iscull]

Edwards was a nice surprise and looks like a rotational wing, but I certainly wouldn't count on him being anything more than that. I feel ok about him being a 9th or 10th man going into the season.

I'm not counting on him, but I think he deserves a shot. You draft whoever you feel is the best player available, period.

[youngcrev]

Edwards was a nice surprise and looks like a rotational wing, but I certainly wouldn't count on him being anything more than that. I feel ok about him being a 9th or 10th man going into the season.

I'm not counting on him, but I think he deserves a shot. You draft whoever you feel is the best player available, period.

I think you might be vastly underestimating how good Luol Deng was then.

[Jailblazers7]

I’m counting on Edward’s being more than that after the flashes he showed last season. I think he’s got a chance to compete for a spot in the starting rotation and, at worst, should be a fixture in our 8 man rotation.

[Negrodamus]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/LwcjzdyjE68

VJ baptizing Justin Edwards back in the day.

[Iscull]

Edwards was a nice surprise and looks like a rotational wing, but I certainly wouldn't count on him being anything more than that. I feel ok about him being a 9th or 10th man going into the season.

I'm not counting on him, but I think he deserves a shot. You draft whoever you feel is the best player available, period.

I think you might be vastly underestimating how good Luol Deng was then.

I remember! Deng was a very good basketball player. I just think it's too early to call out Edwards ceiling.

Rookie season stats:

In 27 MPG, Deng averaged 11.7 Points, 5.3 Rebounds, 2.2 Assists on .434% Shooting
In 26 MPG, Edwards averaged 10.1 Points, 3.4 Rebounds, 1.6 Assists on .455% Shooting

I know stats aren't everything, but it's not wildly different. Deng was a plus defender, which we'll see how Edwards improves.

[Black Mage]

Spoiler:

There are no offensive hub players outside of Harper and Cooper. So if you want our pick to have "hub" potential you gotta trade up or hope Spurs jump on someone not named Harper.

I also don't agree that the Sixers as constructed need a play creator as much as they need players who can stress and bend a defense creating advantages for the offense to make scoring easier. You do this by making a defense have to rotate unexpectedly. The easiest way to create defensive stress is your traditional play creating point guard getting to the lane via the dribble or a PNR (its why Harper is so valuable). However, you can also create stress on a defense if you have skilled off-ball offensive threats.

Off-ball stress can come at 3 different levels; behind the arc, mid-range and at the rim. Ace is the only prospect of those we're looking at (Kon, Tre, VJ being the others) that is capable of putting stress at all 3 of these levels. He's a more than capable motion C&S from 3 player. I think VJ is a better lob threat; but Ace showed better spatial awareness and timing as an off-ball cutter. Ace is the only one that consistently hit on motion C&S from the mid-range.

Ace's off-ball value would provide the Sixers with an element they don't have right now. Sure the Sixers have Maxey and McCain who great off-ball threats, but Ace brings size to table that the other two don't which allows him to be a bigger threat at he rim and in the mid-range where shooting over a defender is important.

Just for discussion, what happens if a defender is able to fight through the screen, one of the screeners switches, or a help defender steps up? Now Bailey has to put the ball on the floor and quickly decide whether to pass, shoot, or drive.

Another thing about Bailey is I don’t think he has the burst with the ball to blow by most bigs if they step up to defend at the level of the screen.

I also don’t think off-ball screen actions are an efficient primary offense (most just run it to get help defense busy for strong side actions), specially for wings (they’re slower than guards like Steph and etc). Those sets tend to eat up a lot of the shot clock, and as we all know, shot quality generally declines the closer you get to the end of the clock.

As to the screen failing, how is that going to be any different than it would be for Kon or Tre? Kon is scared to take a pull up mid-range jumper and he was barely able to limp past college kids let alone the speed of a pro. Tre, well he's no better getting to the basket than Ace and Ace shot a much healthier percentage from mid-range (46% for Ace to 37% for Tre).

Ace doesn't need to take many dribbles to reach the rim with his long strides. If you get it to him on a DHO or hit him as he cuts his handle issues are neutralized as he can take a dribble maybe two and then gather and go up.

McCain last year showed exactly how valuable off-ball screens were to free him up for a three. It doesn't even really need to be an designed off-ball, Ace showed he was good at reading crowds and moving around them to pop free. The point is he knows how to do it, showed skill doing it and hits those shots at a good clip. Sure, McCain does it too, but Ace brings height allowing him to shoot over a smaller defender trying to close out (guard C&S 43.9%)

[OleSchool]

But getting rid of PG does nothing for the salary cap. He's a sunk cost. Maybe at the trade deadline on his last year we might be able to get something but I doubt it.

We're stuck with PG and Joel till the end of their contracts. Unless Joel medically retires then moving PG becomes more important for salary cap reasons

You're simply not understanding why we want to trade PG.

1) We do not think he is a capable basketball player anymore and it will only get worse with age. We can agree to disagree, but he's a waste on the roster - especially at $50MM.

2) Picks aside, if we can trade him for something akin to Cam Johnson and Claxton (Maybe we can get more), I think that's an overall team upgrade. We get younger, deeper, and more cap flexibility.

3) His contract is an albatross and it's difficult to trade under the new CBA. By trading him for 2-3 players making the same aggregate amount, we open up the ability to trade for a wider net of players making lower to middle salaries. As an example and in theory, we could swap Cam Johnson for Deni Avidja and Robert Williams.

4) Stats and contracts aside, PG doesn't give a **** about playing hard anymore and it's a negative impact on the team and lockerroom, which already has issues with Embiid.

I agree with you but for the same reasons you mentioned is the same reason we won't trade him.

First of all, I'm sure Morey doesn't feel like signing PG was a mistake.

Secondly, anyone who takes that contract will want more than just the 3rd pick, for all the reasons you just mentioned.

Say we were in the process era again and PG was with another team. What would you ask from the other team to take on PG and that contract?

My God, Bane (who's a useful player) just went for 2 players, we can argue if u think they are more useful than PG AND FOUR unprotected picks. And Bane wasn't a salary dump.

[Black Mage]

There are no offensive hub players outside of Harper and Cooper. So if you want our pick to have "hub" potential you gotta trade up or hope Spurs jump on someone not named Harper.

I also don't agree that the Sixers as constructed need a play creator as much as they need players who can stress and bend a defense creating advantages for the offense to make scoring easier. You do this by making a defense have to rotate unexpectedly. The easiest way to create defensive stress is your traditional play creating point guard getting to the lane via the dribble or a PNR (its why Harper is so valuable). However, you can also create stress on a defense if you have skilled off-ball offensive threats.

Off-ball stress can come at 3 different levels; behind the arc, mid-range and at the rim. Ace is the only prospect of those we're looking at (Kon, Tre, VJ being the others) that is capable of putting stress at all 3 of these levels. He's a more than capable motion C&S from 3 player. I think VJ is a better lob threat; but Ace showed better spatial awareness and timing as an off-ball cutter. Ace is the only one that consistently hit on motion C&S from the mid-range.

Ace's off-ball value would provide the Sixers with an element they don't have right now. Sure the Sixers have Maxey and McCain who great off-ball threats, but Ace brings size to table that the other two don't which allows him to be a bigger threat at he rim and in the mid-range where shooting over a defender is important.

you had me in the first half not going to lie...but this is ASKUALLY why I am lower on the probable reality of Ace.

I don't know if he is a good enough shooter to consistently space the floor. I don't think he has the BBIQ to make the right decisions on close outs and doesn't have the foot speed to get into the paint either...or has not shown it. I think he will be a good cutter tho.

Now this also goes for VJ too. 34% is 34%. I DO think his first step will make close outs even lazy ones difficult. As he also is a good cutter.

Tre and Kon are elite shooters. Kon has shown some quick passing but you wonder about his footspeed and finishing against grown men. Tre alledgedly has the passing chops just hidden but is a bad finisher.

not gonna lie think I got my hopes up for Harper so I may be a hater for everyone now lol

1) We need to stop calling Tre and Kon elite "shooters." Tre and Kon are NOT elite shooters; they are elite 3 pt shooters. Kon shot just 40% from the mid-range; Tre shot 38%. Bailey shot 47% from mid-range. Kon can't do pull up shots, more on this in point 2.

2) Kon is absolute horsesh** as an on-ball shooter https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/1jvhjna/kon_shooting_breakdown_according_to_hoopexplorer/ - 14% on-ball pull up from 3? 13% PNR ballhander from 3? Kon is great in C&S; but, he literally can't shot the ball once its in his hands (might also explain why he constantly double pumps b/c he's resetting his body from a pull up form to a C&S form.

3) It's a fair argument that Ace may not have the right demeanor or IQ to make quick decisions; but I do think he grew in that area as season wore on and started making some quick and advanced reads leading to tight space passes.

4) Ace can drive, but this is the difference between Kon's highlights and Ace's. Kon drives and he's got no one waiting on him past his first defender. You watch Ace, even when he quickly attacks the closeout and blows past his man; there's always 1 and usually 2 more guys coming across cutting off the lane to the rim and he pulls up instead which again he was hitting at nearly 50%. I think with a better team around him you'd see Ace finishing more at the rim or trusting elite shooters like Maxey/McCain/PG for a kickout 3.

[Black Mage]

There are no offensive hub players outside of Harper and Cooper. So if you want our pick to have "hub" potential you gotta trade up or hope Spurs jump on someone not named Harper.

I also don't agree that the Sixers as constructed need a play creator as much as they need players who can stress and bend a defense creating advantages for the offense to make scoring easier. You do this by making a defense have to rotate unexpectedly. The easiest way to create defensive stress is your traditional play creating point guard getting to the lane via the dribble or a PNR (its why Harper is so valuable). However, you can also create stress on a defense if you have skilled off-ball offensive threats.

Off-ball stress can come at 3 different levels; behind the arc, mid-range and at the rim. Ace is the only prospect of those we're looking at (Kon, Tre, VJ being the others) that is capable of putting stress at all 3 of these levels. He's a more than capable motion C&S from 3 player. I think VJ is a better lob threat; but Ace showed better spatial awareness and timing as an off-ball cutter. Ace is the only one that consistently hit on motion C&S from the mid-range.

Ace's off-ball value would provide the Sixers with an element they don't have right now. Sure the Sixers have Maxey and McCain who great off-ball threats, but Ace brings size to table that the other two don't which allows him to be a bigger threat at he rim and in the mid-range where shooting over a defender is important.

Ok and that's fair points. It just seems we're looking for 2 different things from our SF. which is fine, more than one way to skin a cat.

Totally agree, you and I were looking at things differently; I just wanted to explain my philosophy on it as I've been one of the more vocal pro-Ace posters (tho I like VJ too) and clarify I am not in the "Ace can be a hub" camp. Ace would need to buy-in and if he isn't sold on this usage and insists on trying to be a self-creator or focus of the offense then, as much as I love Ace, it's a pass b/c he's not there yet and he wouldn't fit on this team at all with what we have. I'd rather go VJ; unless he starts insisting he has to be the primary PG at which point then we move heaven and earth to get Harper.

[Iscull]

But getting rid of PG does nothing for the salary cap. He's a sunk cost. Maybe at the trade deadline on his last year we might be able to get something but I doubt it.

We're stuck with PG and Joel till the end of their contracts. Unless Joel medically retires then moving PG becomes more important for salary cap reasons

You're simply not understanding why we want to trade PG.

1) We do not think he is a capable basketball player anymore and it will only get worse with age. We can agree to disagree, but he's a waste on the roster - especially at $50MM.

2) Picks aside, if we can trade him for something akin to Cam Johnson and Claxton (Maybe we can get more), I think that's an overall team upgrade. We get younger, deeper, and more cap flexibility.

3) His contract is an albatross and it's difficult to trade under the new CBA. By trading him for 2-3 players making the same aggregate amount, we open up the ability to trade for a wider net of players making lower to middle salaries. As an example and in theory, we could swap Cam Johnson for Deni Avidja and Robert Williams.

4) Stats and contracts aside, PG doesn't give a **** about playing hard anymore and it's a negative impact on the team and lockerroom, which already has issues with Embiid.

I agree with you but for the same reasons you mentioned is the same reason we won't trade him.

First of all, I'm sure Morey doesn't feel like signing PG was a mistake.

Secondly, anyone who takes that contract will want more than just the 3rd pick, for all the reasons you just mentioned.

Say we were in the process era again and PG was with another team. What would you ask from the other team to take on PG and that contract?

My God, Bane (who's a useful player) just went for 2 players, we can argue if u think they are more useful than PG AND FOUR unprotected picks. And Bane wasn't a salary dump.

I agree that Morey doesn't think it's a mistake, yet. That said, if PG has another bad start through the All-Star as I mentioned before, I think he'll recognize it.

If PG was on another team and we were tanking, I'd probably ask for 2 FRP's. Those FRP's certainly wouldn't need to be top 3 lottery. I would agree in saying trading the #3 with him would be too much to just off-load his contract. I'd want something material in return.

The upside for the tanking team is you're buying FRP's AND getting a player who won't impact your tank because he'll probably sit on the bench for half the season.

For Memphis, I think the players were more to contract match Bane than salary dump. You basically need all salaries to match in today's CBA.

[CPops57]

Now this also goes for VJ too. 34% is 34%.

What gives VJ some hope as a shooter is the semi-respectable FT shooting of 78.2%. He's not good now, but not a total project or lost cause there.

There have been various studies that illustrate that free throw shooting in college basketball has a higher correlation to 3 point shooting success in the NBA than even 3 point shooting in college.

[CPops57]

Kon stops and pulls up. Which is "fine" but Kon should've posterized that kid. He had a full head of steam but instead he stops and banks it in

Are dunks and layups worth a different number of points?