The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

[Bum Adebayo]

It's not worth it. Some here are staunchly in the "he needs to switch hands and he'll magically become an NBA shooter" camp and it's an exhausting argument.

Not as exhausting as watching a player with elite hand-eye coordination pass up easy shots that a 6 year would make, because he refuses to shoot correctly.

Yea, I'm sure he'll be a dead-eye shooter by switching after shooting left handed his entire life. Muscle memory is just theoretical. Should be an easy transition.

Nobody has said it would be an easy transition. What some are saying is that he needs to switch hands because it is clear his shot is more natural with his right. What is the downside? he is not shooting right now anyways lol.
Just try some things and tweaks to improve him as a shooter, instead of, you know, admitting defeat and just resigning to the fact he will never be able to shoot. Improvement is a thing, I know you don't believe much in that but with a great work ethic some nice things can happen. Ben maybe doesn't have the work ethic unfortunately, let's see if he gets it this offseason.

[TheBallsDeeper]

It's not worth it. Some here are staunchly in the "he needs to switch hands and he'll magically become an NBA shooter" camp and it's an exhausting argument.

Not as exhausting as watching a player with elite hand-eye coordination pass up easy shots that a 6 year would make, because he refuses to shoot correctly.

Yea, I'm sure he'll be a dead-eye shooter by switching after shooting left handed his entire life. Muscle memory is just theoretical. Should be an easy transition.

Where did I say or indicate it would be easy? You must really be struggling to put up an argument against him fixing his shot if you have to resort to making things up.

[Negrodamus]

Not as exhausting as watching a player with elite hand-eye coordination pass up easy shots that a 6 year would make, because he refuses to shoot correctly.

Yea, I'm sure he'll be a dead-eye shooter by switching after shooting left handed his entire life. Muscle memory is just theoretical. Should be an easy transition.

Nobody has said it would be an easy transition. What some are saying is that he needs to switch hands because it is clear his shot is more natural with his right. What is the downside? he is not shooting right now anyways lol.
Just try some things and tweaks to improve him as a shooter, instead of, you know, admitting defeat and just resigning to the fact he will never be able to shoot. Improvement is a thing, I know you don't believe much in that but with a great work ethic some nice things can happen. Ben maybe doesn't have the work ethic unfortunately, let's see if he gets it this offseason.

How long do you think this will take? Because we're going to need to decide if he's a max contract in 2 years and I have some beach side property in Arizona to give you if he's shooting better than he currently is with his right hand by then.

And what's the downside? What if he is never comfortable shooting with his right hand and is worse shooter? Then he spent X amount of time 2 years into his NBA career working on a failed project when he was shooting 60% from FT (4% improvement from last year) with his left hand. What if he commits the same amount of time to making the adjustments necessary to the hand he's comfortable with? Wouldn't that be infinitely less risky and probably yield better results?

But sure, I don't believe in improvement. Maybe Markelle should shoot with his left hand because clearly the right hand isn't working and he needs the nuclear option, amirite?

[Negrodamus]

Not as exhausting as watching a player with elite hand-eye coordination pass up easy shots that a 6 year would make, because he refuses to shoot correctly.

Yea, I'm sure he'll be a dead-eye shooter by switching after shooting left handed his entire life. Muscle memory is just theoretical. Should be an easy transition.

Where did I say or indicate it would be easy? You must really be struggling to put up an argument against him fixing his shot if you have to resort to making things up.

No, not struggling at all. I just find the "well he should just switch hands" crowd to be exhaustingly obtuse and completely out of touch with his situation.

[TheBallsDeeper]

Yea, I'm sure he'll be a dead-eye shooter by switching after shooting left handed his entire life. Muscle memory is just theoretical. Should be an easy transition.

Nobody has said it would be an easy transition. What some are saying is that he needs to switch hands because it is clear his shot is more natural with his right. What is the downside? he is not shooting right now anyways lol.
Just try some things and tweaks to improve him as a shooter, instead of, you know, admitting defeat and just resigning to the fact he will never be able to shoot. Improvement is a thing, I know you don't believe much in that but with a great work ethic some nice things can happen. Ben maybe doesn't have the work ethic unfortunately, let's see if he gets it this offseason.

How long do you think this will take? Because we're going to need to decide if he's a max contract in 2 years and I have some beach side property in Arizona to give you if he's shooting better than he currently is with his right hand by then.

And what's the downside? What if he is never comfortable shooting with his right hand and is worse shooter? Then he spent X amount of time 2 years into his NBA career working on a failed project when he was shooting 60% from FT (4% improvement from last year) with his left hand. What if he commits the same amount of time to making the adjustments necessary to the hand he's comfortable with? Wouldn't that be infinitely less risky and probably yield better results?

But sure, I don't believe in improvement. Maybe Markelle should shoot with his left hand because clearly the right hand isn't working and he needs the nuclear option, amirite?

Markelle does not finish at the rim with his left, struggle to finish with his right, throw with his left, shoot hooks with his left, shoot floaters with his left, revert to shooting left when under pressure, and have to twist his body unnaturally to shoot right - so it's not the same.

[Negrodamus]

Nobody has said it would be an easy transition. What some are saying is that he needs to switch hands because it is clear his shot is more natural with his right. What is the downside? he is not shooting right now anyways lol.
Just try some things and tweaks to improve him as a shooter, instead of, you know, admitting defeat and just resigning to the fact he will never be able to shoot. Improvement is a thing, I know you don't believe much in that but with a great work ethic some nice things can happen. Ben maybe doesn't have the work ethic unfortunately, let's see if he gets it this offseason.

How long do you think this will take? Because we're going to need to decide if he's a max contract in 2 years and I have some beach side property in Arizona to give you if he's shooting better than he currently is with his right hand by then.

And what's the downside? What if he is never comfortable shooting with his right hand and is worse shooter? Then he spent X amount of time 2 years into his NBA career working on a failed project when he was shooting 60% from FT (4% improvement from last year) with his left hand. What if he commits the same amount of time to making the adjustments necessary to the hand he's comfortable with? Wouldn't that be infinitely less risky and probably yield better results?

But sure, I don't believe in improvement. Maybe Markelle should shoot with his left hand because clearly the right hand isn't working and he needs the nuclear option, amirite?

Markelle does not finish at the rim with his left, struggle to finish with his right, throw with his left, shoot hooks with his left, shoot floaters with his left, revert to shooting left when under pressure, and have to twist his body unnaturally to shoot right - so it's not the same.

Glad that's what you hooked your argument on to. Now address the rest of the post.

[James40]

Simmons has a mental issue when it comes to his jumper, that’s obvious, but whatever they do, don’t hook him with the Dr. that Fultz went to see.

[Mik317]

you guys focus on the form too much.

its bad but I think the main thing is ben's mental block preventing him from shooting at all.

In theory, ben is right, him taking a jumper is probably a bad option a lot of the time. He is a PG at heart who wants to get the best possible shot for his team at all times. This leads to him forcing passes and not even looking for his own. that is what needs to change. The ugly truth about NBA stardom is that a lot of stars take and make **** terrible shots lol. Those Harden stepbacks or Stephs long range bombs...are terrible shots. But they take and make them. Gotta do that first part first before worrying about the latter.

however, we also don't have time for him to go through those 2-15 nights lol. Gonna keep saying it but that run to end last year is hurting us right now as the team assumed they were ahead of schedule and started to rush things.

as such Ben needs to just go ham this summer and accelerate his progress.\No more working on anything else BUT shooting.

[Bum Adebayo]

Yea, I'm sure he'll be a dead-eye shooter by switching after shooting left handed his entire life. Muscle memory is just theoretical. Should be an easy transition.

Nobody has said it would be an easy transition. What some are saying is that he needs to switch hands because it is clear his shot is more natural with his right. What is the downside? he is not shooting right now anyways lol.
Just try some things and tweaks to improve him as a shooter, instead of, you know, admitting defeat and just resigning to the fact he will never be able to shoot. Improvement is a thing, I know you don't believe much in that but with a great work ethic some nice things can happen. Ben maybe doesn't have the work ethic unfortunately, let's see if he gets it this offseason.

How long do you think this will take? Because we're going to need to decide if he's a max contract in 2 years and I have some beach side property in Arizona to give you if he's shooting better than he currently is with his right hand by then.

And what's the downside? What if he is never comfortable shooting with his right hand and is worse shooter? Then he spent X amount of time 2 years into his NBA career working on a failed project when he was shooting 60% from FT (4% improvement from last year) with his left hand. What if he commits the same amount of time to making the adjustments necessary to the hand he's comfortable with? Wouldn't that be infinitely less risky and probably yield better results?

But sure, I don't believe in improvement. Maybe Markelle should shoot with his left hand because clearly the right hand isn't working and he needs the nuclear option, amirite?

You try to improve his shooting, irrelevant of his contract situation. If he is exactly the same player with no improvements, let him walk. And 60% FT shooting won't cut it, 54% in playoffs btw. I'm taking the upside route, this Simmons we have now is not going to get us nowhere near a championship. So we try to change his shooting hand, if all goes well we have a better player, if not oh well he is an even worse FT shooter, ok, but he was scared of going strong to the rim anyways. Think of it this way, Simmons improves his shooting you max him, Simmons doesn't improve his shooting you try to trade him before extension date, if not possible you try offering less than max, if not then let him walk.

[Negrodamus]

Nobody has said it would be an easy transition. What some are saying is that he needs to switch hands because it is clear his shot is more natural with his right. What is the downside? he is not shooting right now anyways lol.
Just try some things and tweaks to improve him as a shooter, instead of, you know, admitting defeat and just resigning to the fact he will never be able to shoot. Improvement is a thing, I know you don't believe much in that but with a great work ethic some nice things can happen. Ben maybe doesn't have the work ethic unfortunately, let's see if he gets it this offseason.

How long do you think this will take? Because we're going to need to decide if he's a max contract in 2 years and I have some beach side property in Arizona to give you if he's shooting better than he currently is with his right hand by then.

And what's the downside? What if he is never comfortable shooting with his right hand and is worse shooter? Then he spent X amount of time 2 years into his NBA career working on a failed project when he was shooting 60% from FT (4% improvement from last year) with his left hand. What if he commits the same amount of time to making the adjustments necessary to the hand he's comfortable with? Wouldn't that be infinitely less risky and probably yield better results?

But sure, I don't believe in improvement. Maybe Markelle should shoot with his left hand because clearly the right hand isn't working and he needs the nuclear option, amirite?

You try to improve his shooting, irrelevant of his contract situation. If he is exactly the same player with no improvements, let him walk. And 60% FT shooting won't cut it, 54% in playoffs btw. I'm taking the upside route, this Simmons we have now is not going to get us nowhere near a championship. So we try to change his shooting hand, if all goes well we have a better player, if not oh well he is an even worse FT shooter, ok, but he was scared of going strong to the rim anyways. Think of it this way, Simmons improves his shooting you max him, Simmons doesn't improve his shooting you try to trade him before extension date, if not possible you try offering less than max, if not then let him walk.

Amazingly, you left out the Simmons perspective of this where he sees that changing hands will be a waste of time. When it would be declared a waste of time, right around contract time, he will be a player with no shooting hand, a garbage FT shooter, and not worth a max contract. Conversely, if he shows gradual improvement over the next two seasons as a shooter, he’s a max player.

The time to do this experiment would have been when he was out his first year. I’ll guarantee they talked about it. The risk didn’t outweigh the reward. This isn’t some novel solution that the Sixers haven’t even considered.

[Bum Adebayo]

How long do you think this will take? Because we're going to need to decide if he's a max contract in 2 years and I have some beach side property in Arizona to give you if he's shooting better than he currently is with his right hand by then.

And what's the downside? What if he is never comfortable shooting with his right hand and is worse shooter? Then he spent X amount of time 2 years into his NBA career working on a failed project when he was shooting 60% from FT (4% improvement from last year) with his left hand. What if he commits the same amount of time to making the adjustments necessary to the hand he's comfortable with? Wouldn't that be infinitely less risky and probably yield better results?

But sure, I don't believe in improvement. Maybe Markelle should shoot with his left hand because clearly the right hand isn't working and he needs the nuclear option, amirite?

You try to improve his shooting, irrelevant of his contract situation. If he is exactly the same player with no improvements, let him walk. And 60% FT shooting won't cut it, 54% in playoffs btw. I'm taking the upside route, this Simmons we have now is not going to get us nowhere near a championship. So we try to change his shooting hand, if all goes well we have a better player, if not oh well he is an even worse FT shooter, ok, but he was scared of going strong to the rim anyways. Think of it this way, Simmons improves his shooting you max him, Simmons doesn't improve his shooting you try to trade him before extension date, if not possible you try offering less than max, if not then let him walk.

Amazingly, you left out the Simmons perspective of this where he sees that changing hands will be a waste of time. When it would be declared a waste of time, right around contract time, he will be a player with no shooting hand, a garbage FT shooter, and not worth a max contract. Conversely, if he shows gradual improvement over the next two seasons as a shooter, he’s a max player.

The time to do this experiment would have been when he was out his first year. I’ll guarantee they talked about it. The risk didn’t outweigh the reward. This isn’t some novel solution that the Sixers haven’t even considered.

Oh great, so you have inside tracking of the situation? what Simmons said or thinks? amazing man.
I don't give a **** about what he thinks or what was discussed before. They will simply revisit changing shooting hand and he will change shooting hand, they HAVE to, he has to improve as a shooter, it is mandatory, keep being as bad as he is now is NOT an option, the only option is to improve his shooting.

[Negrodamus]

You try to improve his shooting, irrelevant of his contract situation. If he is exactly the same player with no improvements, let him walk. And 60% FT shooting won't cut it, 54% in playoffs btw. I'm taking the upside route, this Simmons we have now is not going to get us nowhere near a championship. So we try to change his shooting hand, if all goes well we have a better player, if not oh well he is an even worse FT shooter, ok, but he was scared of going strong to the rim anyways. Think of it this way, Simmons improves his shooting you max him, Simmons doesn't improve his shooting you try to trade him before extension date, if not possible you try offering less than max, if not then let him walk.

Amazingly, you left out the Simmons perspective of this where he sees that changing hands will be a waste of time. When it would be declared a waste of time, right around contract time, he will be a player with no shooting hand, a garbage FT shooter, and not worth a max contract. Conversely, if he shows gradual improvement over the next two seasons as a shooter, he’s a max player.

The time to do this experiment would have been when he was out his first year. I’ll guarantee they talked about it. The risk didn’t outweigh the reward. This isn’t some novel solution that the Sixers haven’t even considered.

Oh great, so you have inside tracking of the situation? what Simmons said or thinks? amazing man.
I don't give a **** about what he thinks or what was discussed before. They will simply revisit changing shooting hand and he will change shooting hand, they HAVE to, he has to improve as a shooter, it is mandatory, keep being as bad as he is now is NOT an option, the only option is to improve his shooting.

Wait, so does it matter if I know what he said (which was laughing at Marc Stein’s assertion that he will switch hands)?

I look forward to him trotting out for minicamp shooting with his left hand, because I know there is no way he’s going to risk his future on an experiment.

[XtremeDunkz]

Refusing to shoot WIDE **** OPEN shot hurts the team more than him going 2-10 would.

[James40]

You try to improve his shooting, irrelevant of his contract situation. If he is exactly the same player with no improvements, let him walk. And 60% FT shooting won't cut it, 54% in playoffs btw. I'm taking the upside route, this Simmons we have now is not going to get us nowhere near a championship. So we try to change his shooting hand, if all goes well we have a better player, if not oh well he is an even worse FT shooter, ok, but he was scared of going strong to the rim anyways. Think of it this way, Simmons improves his shooting you max him, Simmons doesn't improve his shooting you try to trade him before extension date, if not possible you try offering less than max, if not then let him walk.

Amazingly, you left out the Simmons perspective of this where he sees that changing hands will be a waste of time. When it would be declared a waste of time, right around contract time, he will be a player with no shooting hand, a garbage FT shooter, and not worth a max contract. Conversely, if he shows gradual improvement over the next two seasons as a shooter, he’s a max player.

The time to do this experiment would have been when he was out his first year. I’ll guarantee they talked about it. The risk didn’t outweigh the reward. This isn’t some novel solution that the Sixers haven’t even considered.

Oh great, so you have inside tracking of the situation? what Simmons said or thinks? amazing man.
I don't give a **** about what he thinks or what was discussed before. They will simply revisit changing shooting hand and he will change shooting hand, they HAVE to, he has to improve as a shooter, it is mandatory, keep being as bad as he is now is NOT an option, the only option is to improve his shooting.

I think him actually shooting a jumper is more important than which hand to shoot with, I’ve seen him hit plenty of shots in warmups, his refusal to shoot in game situations is more likely another issue than which hand he shoots with. This has been going on for years with Simmons.

[51X3RF4N]

1. Ben doesn't have killer instinct. He will never be the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of a game. He will ALWAYS be the guy passing the ball to THE guy.

2. Even if he developed a below average 3pt jump shot, that won't change his mentality that he shouldn't be the one taking the game winners.

3. This leads me to believe either you need to find 3 other guys who want that shot, and who can effectively find it on their own instead of needing a pick or screen or some off ball movement to get open. Or you need to trade Ben to a team full of knock down shooters who can also pick up the slack on the defensive end and not be liabilities. So he can Magic his way to a game winning assist. And dominate until the playoffs every year.

Ben for Booker and Okobo would be my offer. Maybe it's laughable for PHX. I don't know.

But they end up with Ben/Bridges/Draft pick/Jackson/Ayton to build around.

Sixers end up with PG Booker maybe?

Booker/Zhaire/Jimmy/Harris/Embiid

[youngcrev]

I don't think it has anything to do with killer instinct. He's not an iso scorer. I don't imagine he'll ever be a closer. That's not his game. He just needs to develop a spot up jumper so that he's not in the way

[eagereyez]

Ben should have switched shooting hands right out of college, but he didn't, and he probably won't now. It is clear as day that he has no confidence in his ability to shoot and starting from scratch will be too much for him to bear. He is too prideful to do what it takes to become the best possible version of himself.

Just gotta live with the taller Rondo. That or trade him for a player that fits, best case scenario a former Finals MVP and top 5 player. But that'll probably never happen.

[PhillyPhilly]

Yea, I'm sure he'll be a dead-eye shooter by switching after shooting left handed his entire life. Muscle memory is just theoretical. Should be an easy transition.

Where did I say or indicate it would be easy? You must really be struggling to put up an argument against him fixing his shot if you have to resort to making things up.

No, not struggling at all. I just find the "well he should just switch hands" crowd to be exhaustingly obtuse and completely out of touch with his situation.

So what is this then?

Read on Twitter

And I can show you ten more of these shots that he's made as well. well over 95% of his buckets come with his right hand and that include sky hooks, push shots, lay-ups and dunks. That shot above is pretty much a jumper if he keeps his left hand on the ball just a few seconds longer. His spring, form and the way he releases the ball there are MUCH more conducive to developing a midrange jumper than the mess he currently has with his left-hand jumpers of which his elbow sticks out weirdly and he releases the ball with his left palm instead of pushing the ball forward with the tips of his hand.

This is not a situation where he's a left-handed player and we're calling for him to shoot with his right-hand because his lefty jumpers aren't falling. This is a situation where we see a kid who scores most of his buckets with his dominant right hand but yet somehow contrives to only shoot jumpers with his left hand. Have you seen another case like this In the NBA? Because I sure haven't. The fact is his lefty jumper looks unnatural and you can see that he has to think about his spring and form before he takes one, because it just isn't natural. I would bet large sums of money that a right-handed jumper would give him way more success because those push shots like the one above are virtually jumpers anyway and he scores them regularly.

I believe Elton and the FO need to sit down with Ben and lay it out for him clearly. "We're gonna get you a personal shooting coach and we'd like to see you try to develop a right-handed jumper as all the stats suggest that is the hand you should be shooting with", it's just that simple yall.

[TheBallsDeeper]

Where did I say or indicate it would be easy? You must really be struggling to put up an argument against him fixing his shot if you have to resort to making things up.

No, not struggling at all. I just find the "well he should just switch hands" crowd to be exhaustingly obtuse and completely out of touch with his situation.

So what is this then?

Read on Twitter

And I can show you ten more of these shots that he's made as well. well over 95% of his buckets come with his right hand and that include sky hooks, push shots, lay-ups and dunks. That shot above is pretty much a jumper if he keeps his left hand on the ball just a few seconds longer. His spring, form and the way he releases the ball there are MUCH more conducive to developing a midrange jumper than the mess he currently has with his left-hand jumpers of which his elbow sticks out weirdly and he releases the ball with his left palm instead of pushing the ball forward with the tips of his hand.

This is not a situation where he's a left-handed player and we're calling for him to shoot with his right-hand because his lefty jumpers aren't falling. This is a situation where we see a kid who scores most of his buckets with his dominant right hand but yet somehow contrives to only shoot jumpers with his left hand. Have you seen another case like this In the NBA? Because I sure haven't. The fact is his lefty jumper looks unnatural and you can see that he has to think about his spring and form before he takes one, because it just isn't natural. I would bet large sums of money that a right-handed jumper would give him way more success because those push shots like the one above are virtually jumpers anyway and he scores them regularly.

I believe Elton and the FO need to sit down with Ben and lay it out for him clearly. "We're gonna get you a personal shooting coach and we'd like to see you try to develop a right-handed jumper as all the stats suggest that is the hand you should be shooting with", it's just that simple yall.

Exactly. Well put.

[TheBallsDeeper]

How long do you think this will take? Because we're going to need to decide if he's a max contract in 2 years and I have some beach side property in Arizona to give you if he's shooting better than he currently is with his right hand by then.

And what's the downside? What if he is never comfortable shooting with his right hand and is worse shooter? Then he spent X amount of time 2 years into his NBA career working on a failed project when he was shooting 60% from FT (4% improvement from last year) with his left hand. What if he commits the same amount of time to making the adjustments necessary to the hand he's comfortable with? Wouldn't that be infinitely less risky and probably yield better results?

But sure, I don't believe in improvement. Maybe Markelle should shoot with his left hand because clearly the right hand isn't working and he needs the nuclear option, amirite?

Markelle does not finish at the rim with his left, struggle to finish with his right, throw with his left, shoot hooks with his left, shoot floaters with his left, revert to shooting left when under pressure, and have to twist his body unnaturally to shoot right - so it's not the same.

Glad that's what you hooked your argument on to. Now address the rest of the post.

This does address the rest of the post.