Around The League: 2021-2022 Season 2.0

[blargh]

The thing about LeBron and players like Ben, is these two guys never became underdogs in their lives. So unlike Steph, Giannis and MJ, they are used to being crowned even before accomplishing anything.

I don’t think you can lump Lebron and Ben together. Lebron was born in poor neighborhood to a 16-year mother and an absentee ex-con father. His understanding of being an underdog goes way beyond being drafted outside the lottery.

[76ciology]

The thing about LeBron and players like Ben, is these two guys never became underdogs in their lives. So unlike Steph, Giannis and MJ, they are used to being crowned even before accomplishing anything.

I don’t think you can lump Lebron and Ben together. Lebron was born in poor neighborhood to a 16-year mother and an absentee ex-con father. His understanding of being an underdog goes way beyond being drafted outside the lottery.

Im referring to their careers.

In life, Lebron may have a different mentality. And its possible to have an underdog mentality in life and a “messiah” mentality in your career.

[blargh]

The thing about LeBron and players like Ben, is these two guys never became underdogs in their lives. So unlike Steph, Giannis and MJ, they are used to being crowned even before accomplishing anything.

I don’t think you can lump Lebron and Ben together. Lebron was born in poor neighborhood to a 16-year mother and an absentee ex-con father. His understanding of being an underdog goes way beyond being drafted outside the lottery.

Im referring to their careers.

In life, Lebron may have a different mentality. And its possible to have an underdog mentality in life and a “messiah” mentality in your career.

My opinion is that dealing with adversity in life definitely translates into dealing with adversity on the court.

I’m not some huge Lebron fan, but he’s not a guy who’s waltzed through his career coasting on talent. He’s worked insanely hard to get to where he is. If anything, I’d say he’s probably too demanding of his team and teammates to match his intensity (like a Kobe or MJ), rather than exhibiting natural leadership like a Steph or Giannis.

[Negrodamus]

What was the adversity that MJ faced? Went to UNC (a top school even at that time) and was selected with a top three pick? I can’t even form a path of resistance for Curry; he’s had an incredibly good life. Fortunately you can grow up comfortably and still have a strong work ethic, leading you to succeed in your field.

[76ciology]

What was the adversity that MJ faced? Went to UNC (a top school even at that time) and was selected with a top three pick? I can’t even form a path of resistance for Curry; he’s had an incredibly good life. Fortunately you can grow up comfortably and still have a strong work ethic, leading you to succeed in your field.

The story behind Michael Jordan not making his high school basketball team

Technically, Jordan did make the high school team, but he didn’t make varsity. When he applied to be on the varsity team at Emsley A. Laney High School, Jordan was merely a sophomore and was only 5’10.

This prompted coach Clifton “Pop” Herring to choose 6’7″ Leroy Smith over Jordan to fill out the roster. An enraged Jordan decided to go all out on his JV team, dropping 40 pieces on the regular.

This prompted Jordan eventually getting bumped to the varsity. Growing to a respectable 6’3 also helped with this

So when Michael Jordan was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame, he invited the man who beat him out for that final roster spot (Leroy Smith) to watch him give his speech

He’s still the same 6-7 guy. His game is probably about the same,” sneered Jordan. “He started the whole process for me. When he made the team and I didn’t, I wanted to prove not just to LeRoy Smith and not just myself, but (I wanted) the coach to make sure you understood you made a mistake.

“Coach (Dean) Smith the day on Sports Illustrated named four starters and didn’t name me that burned me up,” Jordan remembered. “I thought I belonged on that (cover). He had this vision on giving a freshman exposure. From a basketball standpoint, I deserved to be on that cover.

https://www.nba.com/amp/bulls/news/jordanhof_speech_090912.html

^ you can read the entire thing here. I actually didnt know about it until i read one of Robert Greene’s book about revenge and he covered MJ’s HOF speech.

And in this HOF speech it explains how his failure and competitiveness (or pettyness) in life lead him to where he is at his career

[Jailblazers7]

I think human beings are ultimately a mystery and we invent narratives to explain their behavior in comprehensible ways. In the Jordan doc, he was exposed for literally inventing grudges out of thin air to fuel him. That guy would have found something to fuel him no matter what. Who knows why Curry, Lebron, Giannis, Larry Bird, etc all had the drive to be legends despite very different backgrounds.

[Kobblehead]

It's easy to see the Steph Curry fuel.

- Wasn't offered any real school scholarship out of highschool except at late one from Va Tech (just because his dad went there).
- Dominates the Southern Conference as a freshman and doesn't even get Player of the Year that year.
- Falls to the back of the top 10 because he's too small and unathletic.
- Is the catalyst for an emerging powerhouse in the west but gets dismissed as just another Chris Jackson.
- Gets disrespected by contemporaries and former players from the 90s that think he's just a little weak shooter and not a real star.
- Gets disrespected by NBA media and not even given Finals MVP.

All these slights added up and fueled him to steal an era from the Anointed One. Which ultimately ended up being for the betterment of the league because Steph is a better draw than LeBron. https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/stephen-curry-is-the-most-watched-nba-player-on-national-television-ahead-of-lebron-james-kevin-durant-and-giannis-antentokounmpo

[Jailblazers7]

I do think Steph single-handedly turned League Pass from a niche product to a common purchase for a good chunk of fans. Him going absolutely ham on a random Tuesday night became must watch TV in a way that was new & exciting.

[Negrodamus]

Really, we're citing the "didn't make varsity" story as the adversity MJ overcame to become the greatest?

Any way you slice it, LeBron had much more adversity en route to the NBA than MJ or Curry did. It's not even close.

[stormi]

Lebron to me is simply just the greatest combination of basketballing ability and physique the game has ever seen. His blend of machine like continuous scoring, all time great athletic ability and transcendent passing make him the most transferable in any era.

I think he's overcome the most (Cleveland v1 surrounding him with Big Z, Mo Williams and washed Shaq and expecting him to move mountains ---, Ainge colluding a big 3, --- the #2 and #3 players from this era teaming up to stop him, overall lack of health / luck from teammates in critical moments)

... and has had the hardest road to achieve what he has. I think Lebron could have unquestionably won all of Steph's rings and all of Mike's rings. I don't know if anyone else in history could have won 2016 in that spot, or would have overcome the Spurs with zero help in '07, having no Love/Kyrie in 2015, and then facing possibly the greatest team ever constructed in '17 & '18.

Best narratives and fairy tales are Kobe/Steph/Mike, ability wise and impact though Lebron was a one man walking super team.

[Negrodamus]

Lebron to me is simply just the greatest combination of basketballing ability and physique the game has ever seen. His blend of machine like continuous scoring, all time great athletic ability and transcendent passing make him the most transferable in any era.

I think he's overcome the most, and has had the hardest road to achieve what he has done. I think Lebron could have won all of Steph's rings and all of Mike's rings. I don't know if anyone in history could have won 2016 in his spot, or would have overcame the Spurs with zero help in '07, having no Love/Kyrie in 2015, and then facing a 73 win team that added another all time great scorer on top of it in '17 & '18.

Best narratives and fairy tales are Kobe/Steph/Mike, ability wise I think Lebron was a one man walking super team.

Yea, it's fine if people don't like LeBron, but he's the best player of this generation.

Steph is an all time great point guard, but the beginning of his career compared to LeBron is night and day. LeBron was an All Star in his 2nd year and playoffs by his third year, Steph was a first time All Star in his 5th year (age 25) and in the playoffs by his 4th year. By Curry's 4th year, he had most of the major pieces of that 73 win team: Klay, Dray, Harrison Barnes, Andrew Bogut. By LeBron's 4th year, he still had the Mickey Mouse Club surrounding him (on his way to the Finals, mind you): Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Zyrundas Ilgauskas, and Anderson Varejao. Monta Ellis and David Lee were better than anyone LeBron played with until... the Heat probably.

[mjkvol]

Lebron to me is simply just the greatest combination of basketballing ability and physique the game has ever seen. His blend of machine like continuous scoring, all time great athletic ability and transcendent passing make him the most transferable in any era.

I think he's overcome the most, and has had the hardest road to achieve what he has done. I think Lebron could have won all of Steph's rings and all of Mike's rings. I don't know if anyone in history could have won 2016 in his spot, or would have overcame the Spurs with zero help in '07, having no Love/Kyrie in 2015, and then facing a 73 win team that added another all time great scorer on top of it in '17 & '18.

Best narratives and fairy tales are Kobe/Steph/Mike, ability wise I think Lebron was a one man walking super team.

Yea, it's fine if people don't like LeBron, but he's the best player of this generation.

Steph is an all time great point guard, but the beginning of his career compared to LeBron is night and day. LeBron was an All Star in his 2nd year and playoffs by his third year, Steph was a first time All Star in his 5th year (age 25) and in the playoffs by his 4th year. By Curry's 4th year, he had most of the major pieces of that 73 win team: Klay, Dray, Harrison Barnes, Andrew Bogut. By LeBron's 4th year, he still had the Mickey Mouse Club surrounding him (on his way to the Finals, mind you): Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Zyrundas Ilgauskas, and Anderson Varejao. Monta Ellis and David Lee were better than anyone LeBron played with until... the Heat probably.

Now Barnes and Bogut are 'major pieces'? Do Draymond, Klay, or Iggy even sniff the HOF without Steph? Does Andrew Wiggins have his 'renaissance' without Steph? Is Kerr a legendary HOF coach without Steph or just this generation's Don Nelson?

Is it possible that Steph actually makes the players around him better while James doesn't, which might explain why so many who played with him remained scrubs and he needed to surround himself with other stars to win?

James is a physical marvel, the single greatest athlete the game may ever see. Steph is the best basketball player of this generation and probably top 5 all time.

[Kobblehead]

LeBron is a great talent, but ultimately, he'll just be a poor man's Giannis, legacy-wise. He'll be the Wilt of this generation. Everyone will admire his physical feats and production and accept that he was able to win a championship when he teamed up with others. But not good enough to battle through adversity and become a true champion in his own organization. That's why Steph will always own LeBron.

[Negrodamus]

Now Barnes and Bogut are 'major pieces'?

They played 20+ mpg on a historic team. They were major contributors in the context of that team, although I don't know why this is pertinent to the discussion. I brought them up because they obviously had the talent to play minutes on a great team.

Do Draymond, Klay, or Iggy even sniff the HOF without Steph?

Now Barnes and Bogut are 'major pieces'? Does Andrew Wiggins have his 'renaissance' without Steph?

Also don't really understand why this is important to the discussion at hand. I completely acknowledge Steph's greatness.

Is it possible that Steph actually makes the players around him better while James doesn't, which might explain why so many who played with him remained scrubs and he needed to surround himself with other stars to win?

It's possible (that LeBron didn't make people around him better), but unlikely. It wasn't as if these players were "set free" when they left LeBron's clutches. They continued to remain scrubs. Also, are you going to give that same treatment to MJ or Kobe? Bulls were a first round and out type playoff team before Scottie. Kobe was in purgatory until they traded Kwame for Gasol. Both surrounded by mediocre teammates. Did they make their teammates worse?

Maybe having LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, and Michael Jordan create offense is better than deferring to Boobie Gibson, Smush Parker, and Charles Oakley to score points.

We got to watch Steph Curry play without a team full of stars for the first time (since before their mid-2010s run) last year and have to solely carry the team. Highest scoring output he's ever had. Lost in the play in game. Is that because he didn't make his teammates better?

[Kobblehead]

If Steph wins one more championship, he's leap-frogging Duncan and Magic and becoming the 3rd best player of all-time behind Jordan and Kobe IMO.

[Kobblehead]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267435/Bradley-Beal-Has-Decided-On-Basketball-Future;-Will-Reveal-Later

who does this guy think he is?

[Mik317]

are we even sure Beal is even good anymore?

or ever was

[Negrodamus]

If Steph wins one more championship, he's leap-frogging Duncan and Magic and becoming the 3rd best player of all-time behind Jordan and Kobe IMO.

Kobe is ranked better than Duncan? News to me.

[mjkvol]

Now Barnes and Bogut are 'major pieces'?

They played 20+ mpg on a historic team. They were major contributors in the context of that team, although I don't know why this is pertinent to the discussion. I brought them up because they obviously had the talent to play minutes on a great team.

Do Draymond, Klay, or Iggy even sniff the HOF without Steph?

Now Barnes and Bogut are 'major pieces'? Does Andrew Wiggins have his 'renaissance' without Steph?

Also don't really understand why this is important to the discussion at hand. I completely acknowledge Steph's greatness.

Is it possible that Steph actually makes the players around him better while James doesn't, which might explain why so many who played with him remained scrubs and he needed to surround himself with other stars to win?

It's possible (that LeBron didn't make people around him better), but unlikely. It wasn't as if these players were "set free" when they left LeBron's clutches. They continued to remain scrubs. Also, are you going to give that same treatment to MJ or Kobe? Bulls were a first round and out type playoff team before Scottie. Kobe was in purgatory until they traded Kwame for Gasol. Both surrounded by mediocre teammates. Did they make their teammates worse?

Maybe having LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, and Michael Jordan create offense is better than deferring to Boobie Gibson, Smush Parker, and Charles Oakley to score points.

We got to watch Steph Curry play without a team full of stars for the first time (since before their mid-2010s run) last year and have to solely carry the team. Highest scoring output he's ever had. Lost in the play in game. Is that because he didn't make his teammates better?

I only brought up Barnes and Bogut because you referred to them as major pieces as opposed to the supposed dreck that James had to carry. Neither of them has set the world on fire since leaving GS either.

Jordan won championships while dominating all of those playoffs, so it's pointless to compare anyone to him. Kobe didn't meet in hotel rooms looking for a super team, he won five in the same place and dominated in the last two. Sure they had good teammates, what championship team didn't? Doing it in one place as opposed to team hopping looking for the best opportunity is a massive difference.

[Kobblehead]

If Steph wins one more championship, he's leap-frogging Duncan and Magic and becoming the 3rd best player of all-time behind Jordan and Kobe IMO.

Kobe is ranked better than Duncan? News to me.

I consider them equals during their era, but from an all-time perspective, Kobe's superior scoring output notches him ahead of Duncan in my eyes. For the same reason, I would have Steph ahead of Magic if he wins his 5th ring.