The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[WSmith23]

This is only true if you are fine with saying **** Embiid and trading him. Simmons refusal to shoot will always have a huge negative effect on Embiid.

And Embiids refusal to fight for deep post position is hurting both the team and Ben. Feel Joel doesn’t get enough criticism especially this season for this and prefers to pretend to be a guard at 3 point line where it’s easier on his body and conditioning.

terrible take. Have you need seen how teams are doubling embiid down low as soon as he tocuhes the bll, even tripple teaming?

So it’s all Ben’s fault? You Embiid fan boys he can do no wrong... if he got deep post position rather than post position too far away from rim that wouldn’t matter as he can quickly finish. Also if he didn’t take so long to make decisions or good ones... lots of it is on Ben but it’s also on a Joel, he’s got a reputation for not handling double teams well. Perhaps you need to watch the plays more.

One thing I’ve noticed is that Embiid doesn’t seem to get as much fouls called for him when fighting for position as much this season, even Ben seems to get those good foul calls fighting for with the smaller player bailing out. I could be wrong of course but would be interested to see that stat for Joel compared to previous seasons

[XtremeDunkz]

And Embiids refusal to fight for deep post position is hurting both the team and Ben. Feel Joel doesn’t get enough criticism especially this season for this and prefers to pretend to be a guard at 3 point line where it’s easier on his body and conditioning.

terrible take. Have you need seen how teams are doubling embiid down low as soon as he tocuhes the bll, even tripple teaming?

So it’s all Ben’s fault? You Embiid fan boys he can do no wrong... if he got deep post position rather than post position too far away from rim that wouldn’t matter as he can quickly finish. Also if he didn’t take so long to make decisions or good ones... lots of it is on Ben but it’s also on a Joel, he’s got a reputation for not handling double teams well. Perhaps you need to watch the plays more.

lol i criticize everyone equally. im a fan of the team not any specific player. Joels problems are due to trying to do too much. I can live with that. Bens issues are because he refuses to step outside his comfort zone. Thats not okay.

[WSmith23]

terrible take. Have you need seen how teams are doubling embiid down low as soon as he tocuhes the bll, even tripple teaming?

So it’s all Ben’s fault? You Embiid fan boys he can do no wrong... if he got deep post position rather than post position too far away from rim that wouldn’t matter as he can quickly finish. Also if he didn’t take so long to make decisions or good ones... lots of it is on Ben but it’s also on a Joel, he’s got a reputation for not handling double teams well. Perhaps you need to watch the plays more.

lol i criticize everyone equally. im a fan of the team not any specific player. Joels problems are due to trying to do too much. I can live with that. Bens issues are because he refuses to step outside his comfort zone. Thats not okay.

Disagree, your post history you are very reluctant to criticise Joel, I consider you a Joel fan not team one imo. That’s fine. I agree Ben needs to step outside comfort zone as well and that’s widely acknowledged. Joel’s lack of hunger for deep post position isn’t as widely acknowledged (the example when Theiss was fighting him for position and he just gave up was bad... smart defenders like Gasol and co know this and know he will give up and prefer a face up from closer to 3 point line if they are determined enough, strength of will.

[XtremeDunkz]

So it’s all Ben’s fault? You Embiid fan boys he can do no wrong... if he got deep post position rather than post position too far away from rim that wouldn’t matter as he can quickly finish. Also if he didn’t take so long to make decisions or good ones... lots of it is on Ben but it’s also on a Joel, he’s got a reputation for not handling double teams well. Perhaps you need to watch the plays more.

lol i criticize everyone equally. im a fan of the team not any specific player. Joels problems are due to trying to do too much. I can live with that. Bens issues are because he refuses to step outside his comfort zone. Thats not okay.

Disagree, your post history you are very reluctant to criticise Joel, I consider you a Joel fan not team one imo. That’s fine. I agree Ben needs to step outside comfort zone as well and that’s widely acknowledged. Joel’s lack of hunger for deep post position isn’t as widely acknowledged (the example when Theiss was fighting him for position and he just gave up was bad... smart defenders like Gasol and co know this and know he will give up and prefer a face up from closer to 3 point line if they are determined enough, strength of will.

lol ive been watching the sixers for 20 years but yeah im not a team fan. **** off

[eyeatoma]

lol i criticize everyone equally. im a fan of the team not any specific player. Joels problems are due to trying to do too much. I can live with that. Bens issues are because he refuses to step outside his comfort zone. Thats not okay.

Disagree, your post history you are very reluctant to criticise Joel, I consider you a Joel fan not team one imo. That’s fine. I agree Ben needs to step outside comfort zone as well and that’s widely acknowledged. Joel’s lack of hunger for deep post position isn’t as widely acknowledged (the example when Theiss was fighting him for position and he just gave up was bad... smart defenders like Gasol and co know this and know he will give up and prefer a face up from closer to 3 point line if they are determined enough, strength of will.

lol ive been watching the sixers for 20 years but yeah im not a team fan. **** off

Lol

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[WSmith23]

Disagree, your post history you are very reluctant to criticise Joel, I consider you a Joel fan not team one imo. That’s fine. I agree Ben needs to step outside comfort zone as well and that’s widely acknowledged. Joel’s lack of hunger for deep post position isn’t as widely acknowledged (the example when Theiss was fighting him for position and he just gave up was bad... smart defenders like Gasol and co know this and know he will give up and prefer a face up from closer to 3 point line if they are determined enough, strength of will.

lol ive been watching the sixers for 20 years but yeah im not a team fan. **** off

Lol

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Another one but you’ve been honest you hate Ben and love Joel so that’s cool. Think people shouldn’t be so biased, everyone needs to improve and not immune to criticism rather than ‘Embiid tries to do so much’... pls he needs to get his act together too.

[phifans]

Joel should try to do much more since he is our leader and he missed a lot of games. So start with more hustle on defense & more pass and move quicker on offense plz Joe can u ?

[Mik317]

yet another alt.

[76ciology]

Even if Ben can’t shoot it won’t turn things around..

1.) Ben won’t magically become steph curry. He’d just be an league average shooter at best.

2.) It won’t magically make Embiid a better ballhandler or passer than Ben, so this means putting the ball at Ben to collapse the D and kicking it out is still the better option.

Not to mention, I think Ben will NEVER be a better shooter than Biid. So that means the quality of shooters is better with a 4 out offense with Ben.

You prefer Biid throwing a cross court to Ben at the corner to shoot a 3 than Ben collapsing the defense at the middle and using his court vision and passing ability to open shooters?


3.) The way Biid wants to attack the post, straight up and not selective. Is an inefficient offense that teams would live with.

The key is balance. Make Ben favored offense as primary. When it’s stale, then you dump the ball at Biid. The reason why this is the solution is you can’t have a line-up that can defend both Biid favored or Ben favored offense.

Now, to more important things.. why are we talking about offense and ben shooting when the bigger problem is Biid’s gradual 4 year decline in health and defense.

[Simmons25]

As much as I want Ben to shoot... him not shooting isn't the problem.

We can't expect a non-shooter like him to start taking jumpers when our actual shooters can't hit the side of a barn. We just need to get some real shooters around Joel and Ben... and get Al to the bench. Start Korkmaz. The roster is awfully structured.

[VDT]

Even if Ben can’t shoot it won’t turn things around..

1.) Ben won’t magically become steph curry. He’d just be an league average shooter at best.

2.) It won’t magically make Embiid a better ballhandler or passer than Ben, so this means putting the ball at Ben to collapse the D and kicking it out is still the better option.

Not to mention, I think Ben will NEVER be a better shooter than Biid. So that means the quality of shooters is better with a 4 out offense with Ben.

You prefer Biid throwing a cross court to Ben at the corner to shoot a 3 than Ben collapsing the defense at the middle and using his court vision and passing ability to open shooters?


3.) The way Biid wants to attack the post, straight up and not selective. Is an inefficient offense that teams would live with.

The key is balance. Make Ben favored offense as primary. When it’s stale, then you dump the ball at Biid. The reason why this is the solution is you can’t have a line-up that can defend both Biid favored or Ben favored offense.

Now, to more important things.. why are we talking about offense and ben shooting when the bigger problem is Biid’s gradual 4 year decline in health and defense.

We have been doing what you are suggesting most of the year. The problem is that Simmons is not a dominant scorer but an opportunistic one and most of the times he needs to be assisted to score in the half court. If you are going to run such a system the center of your offensive scheme needs to be a dominant scorer otherwise the offense stalls and players end up chucking contested 3s.

Number 3 is also wrong. If opposing teams were ok with Embiid postups they wouldnt double him so much and they would just let him do it, just like they let him shoot 3s.

To me (a healthy) Embiid has the first and most essential thing a player needs to have if you are going to build the offense around him and that's being a dominant (iso) scorer. Now maybe he is not dominant enough or he may have other issues that will not allow him to be the center of the offense but Simmons doesnt have even that. Maybe he will in the future but i am not convinced at the moment.

[76ciology]

Even if Ben can’t shoot it won’t turn things around..

1.) Ben won’t magically become steph curry. He’d just be an league average shooter at best.

2.) It won’t magically make Embiid a better ballhandler or passer than Ben, so this means putting the ball at Ben to collapse the D and kicking it out is still the better option.

Not to mention, I think Ben will NEVER be a better shooter than Biid. So that means the quality of shooters is better with a 4 out offense with Ben.

You prefer Biid throwing a cross court to Ben at the corner to shoot a 3 than Ben collapsing the defense at the middle and using his court vision and passing ability to open shooters?


3.) The way Biid wants to attack the post, straight up and not selective. Is an inefficient offense that teams would live with.

The key is balance. Make Ben favored offense as primary. When it’s stale, then you dump the ball at Biid. The reason why this is the solution is you can’t have a line-up that can defend both Biid favored or Ben favored offense.

Now, to more important things.. why are we talking about offense and ben shooting when the bigger problem is Biid’s gradual 4 year decline in health and defense.

We have been doing what you are suggesting most of the year. The problem is that Simmons is not a dominant scorer but an opportunistic one and most of the times he needs to be assisted to score in the half court. If you are going to run such a system the center of your offensive scheme needs to be a dominant scorer otherwise the offense stalls and players end up chucking contested 3s.

Number 3 is also wrong. If opposing teams were ok with Embiid postups they wouldnt double him so much and they would just let him do it, just like they let him shoot 3s.

To me (a healthy) Embiid has the first and most essential thing a player needs to have if you are going to build the offense around him and that's being a dominant (iso) scorer. Now maybe he is not dominant enough or he may have other issues that will not allow him to be the center of the offense but Simmons doesnt have even that. Maybe he will in the future but i am not convinced at the moment.

Some teams double him.

Some don’t.

Some double him because he knows refs wont call foul because it was an ill advised shot and they know he isn’t that good in taking care of the ball.

[VDT]

Even if Ben can’t shoot it won’t turn things around..

1.) Ben won’t magically become steph curry. He’d just be an league average shooter at best.

2.) It won’t magically make Embiid a better ballhandler or passer than Ben, so this means putting the ball at Ben to collapse the D and kicking it out is still the better option.

Not to mention, I think Ben will NEVER be a better shooter than Biid. So that means the quality of shooters is better with a 4 out offense with Ben.

You prefer Biid throwing a cross court to Ben at the corner to shoot a 3 than Ben collapsing the defense at the middle and using his court vision and passing ability to open shooters?


3.) The way Biid wants to attack the post, straight up and not selective. Is an inefficient offense that teams would live with.

The key is balance. Make Ben favored offense as primary. When it’s stale, then you dump the ball at Biid. The reason why this is the solution is you can’t have a line-up that can defend both Biid favored or Ben favored offense.

Now, to more important things.. why are we talking about offense and ben shooting when the bigger problem is Biid’s gradual 4 year decline in health and defense.

We have been doing what you are suggesting most of the year. The problem is that Simmons is not a dominant scorer but an opportunistic one and most of the times he needs to be assisted to score in the half court. If you are going to run such a system the center of your offensive scheme needs to be a dominant scorer otherwise the offense stalls and players end up chucking contested 3s.

Number 3 is also wrong. If opposing teams were ok with Embiid postups they wouldnt double him so much and they would just let him do it, just like they let him shoot 3s.

To me (a healthy) Embiid has the first and most essential thing a player needs to have if you are going to build the offense around him and that's being a dominant (iso) scorer. Now maybe he is not dominant enough or he may have other issues that will not allow him to be the center of the offense but Simmons doesnt have even that. Maybe he will in the future but i am not convinced at the moment.

Some teams double him.

Some don’t.

Some double him because he knows refs wont call foul because it was an ill advised shot and they know he isn’t that good in taking care of the ball.

I think basically all teams double him, some are doing that more aggressively when he gets the ball while those with a better defensive center do it only when he goes to his move. But no team lets him play 1v1 against his opponent.

Handling the double team is on Embiid but is also on the team. If there is no open man to pass to that's a team problem.

[76ciology]

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Looking better and better

[M2J]

I disagree that Simmons shooting wouldn't help. Let's say he's a 20% outside shooter. It may at least get some guys to run at him. Maybe not allow someone like Giannis to simply play safety all over the court and converge on the paint because Ben has 0 chances of hurting you from outside. He has so many turnovers that come from him telegraphing passes, instead of wanting to score. I also, don't think he's be a putrid shooter. He just has to let it fly.

When playoffs start and playing good defenses matter... Even Giannis had to start shooting. Running your offense through someone so limited, will catch up to you. Even with shooters. You need them to be able to get you a bucket.

Also, If he doesn't even try to shoot in games, he will never get better at it.

[WSmith23]

I disagree that Simmons shooting wouldn't help. Let's say he's a 20% outside shooter. It may at least get some guys to run at him. Maybe not allow someone like Giannis to simply play safety all over the court and converge on the paint because Ben has 0 chances of hurting you from outside. He has so many turnovers that come from him telegraphing passes, instead of wanting to score. I also, don't think he's be a putrid shooter. He just has to let it fly.

When playoffs start and playing good defenses matter... Even Giannis had to start shooting. Running your offense through someone so limited, will catch up to you. Even with shooters. You need them to be able to get you a bucket.

Also, If he doesn't even try to shoot in games, he will never get better at it.

It’s a fallacy that I’d Ben shoots that it will help spacing. So many teams are happy for Embiid to shoot the 3. Only effective spacing I’ve seen last few years is frantic headless chicken running of JJ and shooting that was effective as defender chased him or more recently korklord. Ben and Furkan have that good understanding at 3 point area. This is what is effective not Ben jacking up 3s at 20%. Honestly would you rather Giannis jacking up 3s or attacking the paint

[elchengue20]

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Nick Wright and the other guy right on point on this one. I've benn saying the same for a few months.

[ivysixer2000]

I disagree that Simmons shooting wouldn't help. Let's say he's a 20% outside shooter. It may at least get some guys to run at him. Maybe not allow someone like Giannis to simply play safety all over the court and converge on the paint because Ben has 0 chances of hurting you from outside. He has so many turnovers that come from him telegraphing passes, instead of wanting to score. I also, don't think he's be a putrid shooter. He just has to let it fly.

When playoffs start and playing good defenses matter... Even Giannis had to start shooting. Running your offense through someone so limited, will catch up to you. Even with shooters. You need them to be able to get you a bucket.

Also, If he doesn't even try to shoot in games, he will never get better at it.

It’s a fallacy that I’d Ben shoots that it will help spacing. So many teams are happy for Embiid to shoot the 3. Only effective spacing I’ve seen last few years is frantic headless chicken running of JJ and shooting that was effective as defender chased him or more recently korklord. Ben and Furkan have that good understanding at 3 point area. This is what is effective not Ben jacking up 3s at 20%. Honestly would you rather Giannis jacking up 3s or attacking the paint

No matter how its glossed over, at the end of the day Ben can't keep running away from outside shots and the only way he will get better at them is in a game. Bully ball doesn't work in this era of charging if you breathe on someone, seems like our coach would know that but alas, its Brett.

Game pressure will make Ben improve his shooting, until we see that, the Sixers will be stuck in neutral.

[XtremeDunkz]

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Nick Wright and the other guy right on point on this one. I've benn saying the same for a few months.

yup i agree with everything they said.

[PhillyFan11]

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Nick Wright and the other guy right on point on this one. I've benn saying the same for a few months.

Yes the shooting (or lack there of) from Ben is inexcusable...no idea how anyone can watch the Sixers and think Jo is the more passionate player about winning basketball games though. Jo is as immature as they come.

The stuff about Jo’s cardio shape is ridiculous too. It’s 2020, there are plenty of non load bearing cardio workouts that a person can do other than running 5 miles. Just like Ben’s shooting, it’s a matter of hard work and will. Unfortunately I’m not sure either has it in them right now, for whatever reason.

If the team fails in the playoffs again, a new HC should be hired 1st before either player is traded. If it finally comes down to 1 or the other, I think it’s just a matter of what package gets us the best team. I don’t think 1 or the other should be off the table.