The Tomjas Thread

[Tomjas]

I feel Ben opting to go for NBPA mental help than Sixers mental help, is him preventing to get exposed.

He’s following Players Association guidelines

Not pointing a finger at you but some people need to pull their head in on this issue as it’s potentially very serious

Ben could have done a Harden & gone completely nuclear if it’s simply about getting paid & traded but he hasn’t done that

The fact that he’s sought help, spoken with the team and Embiid has voiced his support tells me that we should take it at face value until otherwise proven

Sixers is playing a really smart job in handling this Ben’s situation. Embiid and Morey have done a good 4D chess PR move. Ben and his camp is getting outsmarted, aside from turning the back injury into a mental health illness issue to prevent from getting hefty fines which his camp was surprised with before declaring his mental illness as reason for not wanting to play for the team.

Imagine how bad it could be if Sixers’ could get access on Ben’s mental health situation and it turns out to be one big fraud.

If this turns out to be serious, I hope Ben could retire from basketball for I think the pressure of competitive sports (including e games?) may make his situation worse.

Sorry my dude but Sixers have been as dumb as it’s possibly to be

They need to shut the fk up while others implode

Having their hacks leak stuff is just bad business

[syntax]

I feel Ben opting to go for NBPA mental help than Sixers mental help, is him preventing to get exposed.

He’s following Players Association guidelines

Not pointing a finger at you but some people need to pull their head in on this issue as it’s potentially very serious

Ben could have done a Harden & gone completely nuclear if it’s simply about getting paid & traded but he hasn’t done that

The fact that he’s sought help, spoken with the team and Embiid has voiced his support tells me that we should take it at face value until otherwise proven

Sixers is playing a really smart job in handling this Ben’s situation. Embiid and Morey have done a good 4D chess PR move. Ben and his camp is getting outsmarted, aside from turning the back injury into a mental health illness issue to prevent from getting hefty fines which his camp was surprised with before declaring his mental illness as reason for not wanting to play for the team.

Imagine how bad it could be if Sixers’ could get access on Ben’s mental health situation and it turns out to be one big fraud.

If this turns out to be serious, I hope Ben could retire from basketball for I think the pressure of competitive sports (including e games?) may make his situation worse.

Hoping a player retires from a mental illness. Pinnacle of Sixers board summed up right here.

[Kolkmania]

I've always loved De'Aaron Fox, but am a bit disappointed in his lack of FT% improvement throughout the years. Makes me wonder if he has the touch to overcome his three point troubles in the long run.

Would absolutely trade Simmons for Fox though.

[flaco]

Celtics fan here. Do you guys think the Sixers would consider a deal centered around Smart, Schroder, Robert Williams and pick(s)/prospect(s)? Maybe reroute Robert Williams to a third team cause the Sixers already got Embiid. For instance, how about something like this?



Smart is arguably the second most versatile guard defender in the NBA behind only Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with). Schroder is an explosive guard who can change the pace of the game. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Robert Williams is an elite rim protector. One of the best rim runners in the NBA. Nesmith cannot put the ball on the floor, hence he cannot create his own shot. He projects to become a 3+D role player.

Obviously, the Sixers would ask for Brown (if they haven't already). I really don't think the Celtics would make Tatum/Brown available.

If the Celtics keep underachieving, I'd expect them to make a move for Simmons as soon as Smart becomes trade eligible (January 20). My guess is we've already tabled an offer, which was obviously turned down. Fwiw, here's a quote from Zach Lowe:

The wild card team to me is Boston. We talk about good teams that control all their picks. We don't hear about the Celtics very much. The Celtics I think will be looking in the situation where we are not trading Jaylen Brown, we are not trading Jayson Tatum, but hey, we got all these picks, we got all these swaps, we can get in on these trades. The problem is it would have to be a 3-team trade because they are not trading Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. They like I think the idea of Simmons, plus Tatum, plus Brown as their sort of 3 super-sized wings. All good defenders. Simmons can screen and run and pass. I think that's an interesting one, but I think it would have to be a tricky 3-team trade.

[stormi]

That's really bad dude

[76ciology]

He’s following Players Association guidelines

Not pointing a finger at you but some people need to pull their head in on this issue as it’s potentially very serious

Ben could have done a Harden & gone completely nuclear if it’s simply about getting paid & traded but he hasn’t done that

The fact that he’s sought help, spoken with the team and Embiid has voiced his support tells me that we should take it at face value until otherwise proven

Sixers is playing a really smart job in handling this Ben’s situation. Embiid and Morey have done a good 4D chess PR move. Ben and his camp is getting outsmarted, aside from turning the back injury into a mental health illness issue to prevent from getting hefty fines which his camp was surprised with before declaring his mental illness as reason for not wanting to play for the team.

Imagine how bad it could be if Sixers’ could get access on Ben’s mental health situation and it turns out to be one big fraud.

If this turns out to be serious, I hope Ben could retire from basketball for I think the pressure of competitive sports (including e games?) may make his situation worse.

Hoping a player retires from a mental illness. Pinnacle of Sixers board summed up right here.

Would you want to put him into so much stress by playing competitive sports (including e sports) which it seems to be serious enough that is preventing him from playing basketball or has lead him to make unprofessional behavior in practice that lead the team to throw him out?

Won’t his quality of life suffer from that? And for what cause? Just for him to deliver on his contract obligations? That’s torture for a human being.

There are far more things in life than basketball.

I wish for him to enjoy his financial blessings in living a stress free environment (big mansions, fast cars with company of your friends and love ones than teammates like Jimmy Butler who may not like you or Embiid who isnt interested to babysit you or Doc Rivers who threw you out in practice or Daryl Morey who is looking to trade you since day 1 and would continue to look to trade you in day 1 once you recover) for the rest of his life.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Celtics fan here. Do you guys think the Sixers would consider a deal centered around Smart, Schroder, Robert Williams and pick(s)/prospect(s)? Maybe reroute Robert Williams to a third team cause the Sixers already got Embiid. For instance, how about something like this?



Smart is arguably the second most versatile guard defender in the NBA behind only Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with). Schroder is an explosive guard who can change the pace of the game. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Robert Williams is an elite rim protector. One of the best rim runners in the NBA. Nesmith cannot put the ball on the floor, hence he cannot create his own shot. He projects to become a 3+D role player.

Obviously, the Sixers would ask for Brown (if they haven't already). I really don't think the Celtics would make Tatum/Brown available.

If the Celtics keep underachieving, I'd expect them to make a move for Simmons as soon as Smart becomes trade eligible (January 20). My guess is we've already tabled an offer, which was obviously turned down. Fwiw, here's a quote from Zach Lowe:

The wild card team to me is Boston. We talk about good teams that control all their picks. We don't hear about the Celtics very much. The Celtics I think will be looking in the situation where we are not trading Jaylen Brown, we are not trading Jayson Tatum, but hey, we got all these picks, we got all these swaps, we can get in on these trades. The problem is it would have to be a 3-team trade because they are not trading Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. They like I think the idea of Simmons, plus Tatum, plus Brown as their sort of 3 super-sized wings. All good defenders. Simmons can screen and run and pass. I think that's an interesting one, but I think it would have to be a tricky 3-team trade.

Nah, you can keep your pile of crap. Give us Brown and we might talk.

[Tomjas]

Sixers is playing a really smart job in handling this Ben’s situation. Embiid and Morey have done a good 4D chess PR move. Ben and his camp is getting outsmarted, aside from turning the back injury into a mental health illness issue to prevent from getting hefty fines which his camp was surprised with before declaring his mental illness as reason for not wanting to play for the team.

Imagine how bad it could be if Sixers’ could get access on Ben’s mental health situation and it turns out to be one big fraud.

If this turns out to be serious, I hope Ben could retire from basketball for I think the pressure of competitive sports (including e games?) may make his situation worse.

Hoping a player retires from a mental illness. Pinnacle of Sixers board summed up right here.

Would you want to put him into so much stress by playing competitive sports (including e sports) which it seems to be serious enough that is preventing him from playing basketball or has lead him to make unprofessional behavior in practice that lead the team to throw him out?

Won’t his quality of life suffer from that? And for what cause? Just for him to deliver on his contract obligations? That’s torture for a human being.

There are far more things in life than basketball.

I wish for him to enjoy his financial blessings in living a stress free environment (big mansions, fast cars with company of your friends and love ones than teammates like Jimmy Butler who may not like you or Embiid who isnt interested to babysit you or Doc Rivers who threw you out in practice or Daryl Morey who is looking to trade you since day 1 and would continue to look to trade you in day 1 once you recover) for the rest of his life.

Butler was a complete hack at the same age as Ben

People wonder why he wants out

Grow up mate

[stormi]

I just don’t buy Fox as the second option (Murray isn’t either but you get a package and good depth with him). I’m not an advocate for dvying up the numbers between players and I could be wrong but the depth on defense is abysmal now. It’s soon to be done Green and Thybulle that’s it.

That’s not to say keep Ben either as I wanted him traded before the season started.

Is there any chance for Harris to moved along and we acquire Barnes too?

Fox, Barnes, Bagley
Ben, Harris

Type of deal. Would give us exp and most likely would be a better fit with Embiid. He’s having a career year to boot.

Fox
Green
Barnes
Niang
Embiid

Or go the Spurs route:

Murray
White
Green
Harris
Embiid

Don’t know I like team two more for some reason. Backcourt compliments each other, we have Vassell/Thybulle off the bench, can now move Milton/Korkmaz for picks. Bench like this:

Curry
Vassell
Thybulle
Niang
Drummond

That’s a nice looking team imo

I get where you're coming from, but are you prioritizing the composition of our current roster over attempting to find the pieces to win in the next three years?

By that I mean wouldn't you rather have Fox and Embiid and look to find those versatile defenders to surround them with, as opposed to saying we already have Seth who's a weak defender we can't stomach another one in Fox.

And I don't even think Fox is a poor defender.

[Sixerscan]

Celtics fan here. Do you guys think the Sixers would consider a deal centered around Smart, Schroder, Robert Williams and pick(s)/prospect(s)? Maybe reroute Robert Williams to a third team cause the Sixers already got Embiid. For instance, how about something like this?



Smart is arguably the second most versatile guard defender in the NBA behind only Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with). Schroder is an explosive guard who can change the pace of the game. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Robert Williams is an elite rim protector. One of the best rim runners in the NBA. Nesmith cannot put the ball on the floor, hence he cannot create his own shot. He projects to become a 3+D role player.

Obviously, the Sixers would ask for Brown (if they haven't already). I really don't think the Celtics would make Tatum/Brown available.

If the Celtics keep underachieving, I'd expect them to make a move for Simmons as soon as Smart becomes trade eligible (January 20). My guess is we've already tabled an offer, which was obviously turned down. Fwiw, here's a quote from Zach Lowe:

The wild card team to me is Boston. We talk about good teams that control all their picks. We don't hear about the Celtics very much. The Celtics I think will be looking in the situation where we are not trading Jaylen Brown, we are not trading Jayson Tatum, but hey, we got all these picks, we got all these swaps, we can get in on these trades. The problem is it would have to be a 3-team trade because they are not trading Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. They like I think the idea of Simmons, plus Tatum, plus Brown as their sort of 3 super-sized wings. All good defenders. Simmons can screen and run and pass. I think that's an interesting one, but I think it would have to be a tricky 3-team trade.

If the Sixers were willing to take an offer like this, this whole situation would have been over months ago with Simmons on the Wolves or Kings.

Celtics should trade Brown btw. Maybe not for Simmons (though that seems like the best way to recoup the pure talent atm) but they clearly need to balance their roster better.

[DCasey91]

I just don’t buy Fox as the second option (Murray isn’t either but you get a package and good depth with him). I’m not an advocate for dvying up the numbers between players and I could be wrong but the depth on defense is abysmal now. It’s soon to be done Green and Thybulle that’s it.

That’s not to say keep Ben either as I wanted him traded before the season started.

Is there any chance for Harris to moved along and we acquire Barnes too?

Fox, Barnes, Bagley
Ben, Harris

Type of deal. Would give us exp and most likely would be a better fit with Embiid. He’s having a career year to boot.

Fox
Green
Barnes
Niang
Embiid

Or go the Spurs route:

Murray
White
Green
Harris
Embiid

Don’t know I like team two more for some reason. Backcourt compliments each other, we have Vassell/Thybulle off the bench, can now move Milton/Korkmaz for picks. Bench like this:

Curry
Vassell
Thybulle
Niang
Drummond

That’s a nice looking team imo

I get where you're coming from, but are you prioritizing the composition of our current roster over attempting to find the pieces to win in the next three years?

By that I mean wouldn't you rather have Fox and Embiid and look to find those versatile defenders to surround them with, as opposed to saying we already have Seth who's a weak defender we can't stomach another one in Fox.

And I don't even think Fox is a poor defender.

I would be on board with a Fox provided the albatross contract of Harris is gone with it. It’s a nice 2 for one deal that I agree with.

Composition for me is ultra important because our flexibility is bunk. Yes it’s obvious we need a secondary option that is clear but that second option is a smallish list for me personally which one that doesn’t include Fox. Brown yes.

For the team of five we can afford to have one bad defender and hide him that’s it. Fox is a negative defender has been throughout his career and nothing I’ve seen would change my opinion on him. His BPM/On/Off for his career, isn’t crash hot either.

I alluded to smaller a DLO when the athleticism fades because winning impact isn’t all that high.

What about a mix and getting Murray for Harris + Brown for Ben? That would be the dream scenario imo.

Celtics are stubborn but Ben actually works on that team.

Then we have:
Murray
Green
Brown
Embiid

As the 4/5 done. Also Green could also be on the go who knows. That’s a top ten offense/defense or at least the nucleus of one. Roles are defined with two way capability.

That’s exactly what I’m looking at. I don’t think it’s going to be one move, it’s a multiple move pivot with each one having its positives and negatives.

It’s a small sample size as the season has just begun, is Fox just going through the motions and Murray running hot? Who knows but I do rate Murray over on defense/playmaking something we need not just scoring.

It’s funny but Levert, Fox, Murray aren’t dissimilar from one another. All have career -200 TS and -200 FG add

Fox is inflation on his usage between the three (the highest) . All three can be injury prone. At least I know from Murray what separates himself is that he’s very good on ball security and playmaking while being basically an All NBA defender level for a guard.

[mjkvol]

I just don’t buy Fox as the second option (Murray isn’t either but you get a package and good depth with him). I’m not an advocate for dvying up the numbers between players and I could be wrong but the depth on defense is abysmal now. It’s soon to be done Green and Thybulle that’s it.

That’s not to say keep Ben either as I wanted him traded before the season started.

Is there any chance for Harris to moved along and we acquire Barnes too?

Fox, Barnes, Bagley
Ben, Harris

Type of deal. Would give us exp and most likely would be a better fit with Embiid. He’s having a career year to boot.

Fox
Green
Barnes
Niang
Embiid

Or go the Spurs route:

Murray
White
Green
Harris
Embiid

Don’t know I like team two more for some reason. Backcourt compliments each other, we have Vassell/Thybulle off the bench, can now move Milton/Korkmaz for picks. Bench like this:

Curry
Vassell
Thybulle
Niang
Drummond

That’s a nice looking team imo

Completely agree with your analysis, but the reality sadly seems to be that Harris isn't going anywhere, even though it is obvious that moving him would generate the biggest gains, both in addition and subtraction.

Unless Morey is playing this thing incredibly close to the vest, it doesn't appear that Harris is being shopped. It's a real shame if his locker room presence and off court work (admirable as that is) is preventing what would be the biggest difference making move on the court.

[flaco]

Celtics fan here. Do you guys think the Sixers would consider a deal centered around Smart, Schroder, Robert Williams and pick(s)/prospect(s)? Maybe reroute Robert Williams to a third team cause the Sixers already got Embiid. For instance, how about something like this?



Smart is arguably the second most versatile guard defender in the NBA behind only Simmons (who ain't exactly a guard to begin with). Schroder is an explosive guard who can change the pace of the game. He can create shots either for himself or for his teammates. Robert Williams is an elite rim protector. One of the best rim runners in the NBA. Nesmith cannot put the ball on the floor, hence he cannot create his own shot. He projects to become a 3+D role player.

Obviously, the Sixers would ask for Brown (if they haven't already). I really don't think the Celtics would make Tatum/Brown available.

If the Celtics keep underachieving, I'd expect them to make a move for Simmons as soon as Smart becomes trade eligible (January 20). My guess is we've already tabled an offer, which was obviously turned down. Fwiw, here's a quote from Zach Lowe:

The wild card team to me is Boston. We talk about good teams that control all their picks. We don't hear about the Celtics very much. The Celtics I think will be looking in the situation where we are not trading Jaylen Brown, we are not trading Jayson Tatum, but hey, we got all these picks, we got all these swaps, we can get in on these trades. The problem is it would have to be a 3-team trade because they are not trading Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum. They like I think the idea of Simmons, plus Tatum, plus Brown as their sort of 3 super-sized wings. All good defenders. Simmons can screen and run and pass. I think that's an interesting one, but I think it would have to be a tricky 3-team trade.

If the Sixers were willing to take an offer like this, this whole situation would have been over months ago with Simmons on the Wolves or Kings.

Celtics should trade Brown btw. Maybe not for Simmons (though that seems like the best way to recoup the pure talent atm) but they clearly need to balance their roster better.

Brown is at his best when playing at SG. He's mobile enough to stay in front of explosive guards on the perimeter. At the same time, he's taller/longer than most SGs, which allows him to shoot over his opponents or take them to basket. Likewise, Tatum is at his best when playing at PF. Traditional PFs aren't mobile enough to stay in front of him on the perimeter. This is a massive advantage in favour of Tatum, especially since he can put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. Don't see why trading Brown would balance the Celtics roster. If anything, I would argue that Brown is a tiny bit undersized (6'6'') to play at SF.

I understand your point regarding Simmons. Just because the Sixers are holding out for a fair offer, it doesn't mean they'll actually find such an offer.

[Stanford]

Celtics fan here.

We've been discussing a Tobias for Tatum flip on our board and most of the users think it would be a slight win for us, given Tatum's age and willingness to shoot threes. Given Brown and Tatum's toxic relationship right now, do you think you guys would be amenable to a trade like that? It's one of the rare deals where players of similar value get swapped for each other straight up. Tobias would really help your crumbling locker room and likely add a few wins to your regular season total.

[flaco]

Celtics fan here.

We've been discussing a Tobias for Tatum flip on our board and most of the users think it would be a slight win for us, given Tatum's age and willingness to shoot threes. Given Brown and Tatum's toxic relationship right now, do you think you guys would be amenable to a trade like that? It's one of the rare deals where players of similar value get swapped for each other straight up. Tobias would really help your crumbling locker room and likely add a few wins to your regular season total.

I would argue Tatum is practically untouchable. Personally speaking, I believe he's a top 12 player in the NBA. I'd only trade him for Luka, Giannis or Jokic. Not even for Embiid (mainly because of his injury history), much less for Tobias.

If you proposed this deal in a Celtics forum, people would consider it disrespectful. It just goes to show that we all have very different views depending on what team we support. No wonder trades are dificult to happen.

[GutUNC]

Celtics fan here.

We've been discussing a Tobias for Tatum flip on our board and most of the users think it would be a slight win for us, given Tatum's age and willingness to shoot threes. Given Brown and Tatum's toxic relationship right now, do you think you guys would be amenable to a trade like that? It's one of the rare deals where players of similar value get swapped for each other straight up. Tobias would really help your crumbling locker room and likely add a few wins to your regular season total.

I would argue Tatum is practically untouchable. Personally speaking, I believe he's a top 12 player in the NBA. I'd only trade him for Luka, Giannis or Jokic. Not even for Embiid (mainly because of his injury history), much less for Tobias.

If you proposed this deal in a Celtics forum, people would consider it disrespectful. It just goes to show that we all have very different views depending on what team we support. No wonder trades are dificult to happen.

Or how people struggle to recognize sarcasm.

[Negrodamus]

It’s funny but Levert, Fox, Murray aren’t dissimilar from one another. All have career -200 TS and -200 FG add

Fox is inflation on his usage between the three (the highest) . All three can be injury prone. At least I know from Murray what separates himself is that he’s very good on ball security and playmaking while being basically an All NBA defender level for a guard.

Yea, the only difference was Murray and LeVert were in the playoffs by their third year playing with actual talent around them, and in Murray's case, had Gregg freakin' Popovich coaching him. Meanwhile, Fox has had two coaches in five years and pretty bad supporting cast up until this year.

It's funny to me because a guy like Devin Booker is considered an overrated chucker until he has good pieces and a solid coach put around him.

You can obviously dislike Fox as a player and think he won't fit here. There's definitely arguments against his fit. However, I'll always argue against points like the one above that are made with zero context behind them.

[Negrodamus]

Or how people struggle to recognize sarcasm.

"This trade would be disrespectful, now accept our trash for Ben Simmons so we can form a superteam that you have to face multiple times during the regular season and in the playoffs for the next 10 years. Oh you don't like it? Well, buddy, you're holding out for a fair offer and you're not going to get it, so let us be the ones that rip you off."

[Kolkmania]

It’s funny but Levert, Fox, Murray aren’t dissimilar from one another. All have career -200 TS and -200 FG add

Fox is inflation on his usage between the three (the highest) . All three can be injury prone. At least I know from Murray what separates himself is that he’s very good on ball security and playmaking while being basically an All NBA defender level for a guard.

Yea, the only difference was Murray and LeVert were in the playoffs by their third year playing with actual talent around them, and in Murray's case, had Gregg freakin' Popovich coaching him. Meanwhile, Fox has had two coaches in five years and pretty bad supporting cast up until this year.

It's funny to me because a guy like Devin Booker is considered an overrated chucker until he has good pieces and a solid coach put around him.

You can obviously dislike Fox as a player and think he won't fit here. There's definitely arguments against his fit. However, I'll always argue against points like the one above that are made with zero context behind them.

Agree with the Booker argument, same sentiment with LaVine and Beal at some point in their careers. Simmons does not have enough trade value to acquire a proven star, so you have to find alternatives:
- Try to acquire a player who might make a leap in the near future, either due to age or a new environment (Fox, Sexton, etc.)
- Try to acquire as much value as possible, that will keep us competitive and provides flexibility for future disgruntled stars (Minny trade involving combination of McDaniels, Beasley, Russell and picks for example)

In my opinion it is clear what our end goal should be. Have a primary ball handler on the roster who can carry the offense during the PO.

[Murray_17]

Celtics fan here.

We've been discussing a Tobias for Tatum flip on our board and most of the users think it would be a slight win for us, given Tatum's age and willingness to shoot threes. Given Brown and Tatum's toxic relationship right now, do you think you guys would be amenable to a trade like that? It's one of the rare deals where players of similar value get swapped for each other straight up. Tobias would really help your crumbling locker room and likely add a few wins to your regular season total.

I would argue Tatum is practically untouchable. Personally speaking, I believe he's a top 12 player in the NBA. I'd only trade him for Luka, Giannis or Jokic. Not even for Embiid (mainly because of his injury history), much less for Tobias.

If you proposed this deal in a Celtics forum, people would consider it disrespectful. It just goes to show that we all have very different views depending on what team we support. No wonder trades are dificult to happen.

You're super close to a revelation here