The Greek Geek Vs. The Turkish Terror, Bucks @ Sixers 3/29 7:00pm EST

[Ferry Avenue]

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This is on-target in my opinion and another reason why Embiid and Harden aren't effective closers in the NBA. Neither plays with the consistent dog mentality required. When Shaq says Giannis was "meaner," in my vernacular that means he was a dog.

That's what's needed in the clutch in the NBA when the best teams in the league play each other -- a player with the mentality to take over the game and score reliably in the clutch and who then does so. Giannis not only took over offensively in the clutch last night -- he blocked Embiid's shot when Embiid tried to do so.

Right now this is all what's distinguishing the Sixers from the teams that have legitimate shots to win championships. You saw it against the Suns when Chris Paul took over and the Sixers had no answer, and you saw it last night as well when Giannis took over. The Sixers simply don't have a player who can answer in those situations.

[HardenGoat]

Philly fans are borderline trolls if some of these are legit fans on here. The game was controlled well by Harden and the reason we lost this game was because our backup big is washed and gave Giannis 17 points in the last quarters while Embiid sat. 0 points 0 assists 0 rebounds and gave up 17 points to Giannis in his 9 minutes. This game would have been won if our defense was better, very simple. Best way to get better is a defensive wing that can shoot and a legit backup big. Maxey can actually run the second unit and act as a microwave scorer as well and can split time with Harden. He proved that with his Heat dismantling, and he will get even better with more time under Hardens wing.

[Zumramania]

Philly fans are borderline trolls if some of these are legit fans on here. The game was controlled well by Harden and the reason we lost this game was because our backup big is washed and gave Giannis 17 points in the last quarters while Embiid sat. 0 points 0 assists 0 rebounds and gave up 17 points to Giannis in his 9 minutes. This game would have been won if our defense was better, very simple. Best way to get better is a defensive wing that can shoot and a legit backup big. Maxey can actually run the second unit and act as a microwave scorer as well and can split time with Harden. He proved that with his Heat dismantling, and he will get even better with more time under Hardens wing.

I agree, but I think we would have won this one if we played Reed/Bassey, as many have pointed out. I really wonder what do Harden and Embiid think about this.

[Jailblazers7]

I think the big difference between Giannis and Embiid right now is that in crunch time Giannis & Milwaukee know exactly what they want on offense. They’re either running a Jrue/Giannis PnR for a lob or isoing Giannis to get to the rim or shoot his turnaround from the left block.

Sixers seems to run an Embiid/Harden PnR to force a switch and then cross our fingers that one of them can make a shot. But often it leads to a contested step back or some other low percentage shot. And Embiid can still be sped up and forced into bad decisions so there isn’t really a better alternative. Ideally, we’d run some action to get Embiid a look at the left side elbow and let him go to work. But the problem is that teams will just double him which too often leads to a panicked, low quality shot or a turnover from Embiid.

Developing a closing strategy is the last leap that Embiid needs to make as a player to be the leader of a championship team.

[FireMorey]

I really don't get any concern about last night's game. You lose to one of the best teams in the NBA by 2. You controlled most of the game until Rivers had Embiid and Harden both out. Their best player played an A game(especially against the Sixers where they usually contain Giannis pretty well) and Embiid probably played a C game. And while Harden played really well, Maxey played a D or an F game, a I thought Holiday and Middleton for the Bucks played well each. Not off the charts, but certainly baseline at least and Lopez was on fire. When their 3 best players all play baseline or better and two of our 3 best players play a below average game(for them) and you only lose by two when your backup center looks like a G Leaguer, that doesn't bode poorly at all.

I think Sixers/Bucks have the makings of a classic 7 game series if they meet in the playoffs.

[stormi]

I think the big difference between Giannis and Embiid right now is that in crunch time Giannis & Milwaukee know exactly what they want on offense. They’re either running a Jrue/Giannis PnR for a lob or isoing Giannis to get to the rim or shoot his turnaround from the left block.

Sixers seems to run an Embiid/Harden PnR and hopefully to force a switch and then cross our fingers that one of them can make a shot. But often it leads to a contested step back or some other low percentage shot. And Embiid can still be sped up leading and forced into bad decisions so there isn’t really a better alternative. Ideally, we’d run some action to get Embiid a look at the left side elbow and let him go to work. But the problem is that teams will just double him which usually leads to a panicked, low quality shot or a turnover from Embiid.

Developing a closing strategy is the last leap that Embiid needs to make as a player to be the leader of a championship team.

Retweet.

And to add onto this, before Giannis took that leap last playoffs, the Bucks essentially had Middleton dictating every clutch time situation. In 2019 the Bucks had Giannis benched in the ECF while Khris was taking a final shot against the Raptors. Embiid, aside from half a season with Jimmy Butler, has never had a played alongside another player that exudes confidence in their skillset against good teams during the guts of the game (Ben Simmons / Tobias Harris).

And of course after becoming a champion you can just see the increased confidence and swagger that Giannis carries himself with. He's not fundamentally a good shooter, but he takes and makes dirk fades and 3's in transition and tough midranges because he genuinely believes he's taking a shot he can and should make.

Contrarily in similar situations like you said, Joel Embiid is prone to getting away from his own game and making errant decisions. Overdribbling, getting suffocated with the ball in his hands and getting forced into low percentage shots. I feel like more often than not in a 76ers clutch time moment, the opposing defense is dictating the shot we get as opposed to it being a look we want whether it's a make or miss. Most of Embiid's biggest plays in his career clutch wise have been deep contested 3's at the buzzer. Like realistically speaking, that isn't a good shot, nor the shot we probably intended for him to take, but he can make them.

Embiid is so much more skilled from all three levels than Giannis, but he and the team just haven't found a formula that works late in important basketball games. The point of getting James Harden was so that Embiid couldn't be trapped into oblivion in these exact scenarios - and that there's finally another player out there that can get themselves a good look against any defense. It would be nice to see big time shot making from these two late in games instead of the inevitable crumbling act and then post game blame game. It's just been a depressive vicious cycle of underperforming and coming up small for years now.

[Iverson Armband]

I think it’s less about coaching and more about skill sets. Jrue stepped up, Maxey didn’t.

Embiid’s ball handing to get to his spots isn’t as good as Giannis’. That’s one of his problems down the stretch. If he can’t get to that elbow or FT line jumper, he needs to be assisted and that’s tough to do when it gets tight. James had a good look against a center and just missed it, nothing you can do about that.

[HardenGoat]

Philly fans are borderline trolls if some of these are legit fans on here. The game was controlled well by Harden and the reason we lost this game was because our backup big is washed and gave Giannis 17 points in the last quarters while Embiid sat. 0 points 0 assists 0 rebounds and gave up 17 points to Giannis in his 9 minutes. This game would have been won if our defense was better, very simple. Best way to get better is a defensive wing that can shoot and a legit backup big. Maxey can actually run the second unit and act as a microwave scorer as well and can split time with Harden. He proved that with his Heat dismantling, and he will get even better with more time under Hardens wing.

I agree, but I think we would have won this one if we played Reed/Bassey, as many have pointed out. I really wonder what do Harden and Embiid think about this.

Bassey needs to be played especially in a game with the speed and length of Giannis simply to slow him down at the rim and get a rebound at either end. It’s ludicrous at this point to put a washed Millsap in a game like this. Reed is also a better choice. “Fans” are pointing out that Embiid and Harden are not closers but the truth is we lost the game due to the above situation. Stop their best player a few times and it’s a win. And he can be stopped, you just have to use the personnel to do to it. I pray Doc learned something here. I also find it hard to believe Harden hasn’t called on playing Bassey by this point, he’s a good fit with the roll punch offensively. What does Millsap provide?

[Embiid P]

Philly fans are borderline trolls if some of these are legit fans on here. The game was controlled well by Harden and the reason we lost this game was because our backup big is washed and gave Giannis 17 points in the last quarters while Embiid sat. 0 points 0 assists 0 rebounds and gave up 17 points to Giannis in his 9 minutes. This game would have been won if our defense was better, very simple. Best way to get better is a defensive wing that can shoot and a legit backup big. Maxey can actually run the second unit and act as a microwave scorer as well and can split time with Harden. He proved that with his Heat dismantling, and he will get even better with more time under Hardens wing.

I agree, but I think we would have won this one if we played Reed/Bassey, as many have pointed out. I really wonder what do Harden and Embiid think about this.

Bassey needs to be played especially in a game with the speed and length of Giannis simply to slow him down at the rim and get a rebound at either end. It’s ludicrous at this point to put a washed Millsap in a game like this. Reed is also a better choice. “Fans” are pointing out that Embiid and Harden are not closers but the truth is we lost the game due to the above situation. Stop their best player a few times and it’s a win. And he can be stopped, you just have to use the personnel to do to it. I pray Doc learned something here. I also find it hard to believe Harden hasn’t called on playing Bassey by this point, he’s a good fit with the roll punch offensively. What does Millsap provide?

This. The game was lost in the late 3rd/early 4th thanks to our crappy bench and Doc's boneheaded substitutions. It never should have gotten to the point where we needed to hit a game-winning shot at the end. While we do need someone to regularly close out games, we also need to do all in our power to ensure that we aren't in close games at the end.

[mjkvol]

In terms of needs what would be the most to least important

Backup Big
Starting Wing
Backup PG


IMO
Starting Wing( A legit 3&D wing that can knock down open 3s and guard the best wings in the league would take alot of pressure off the starting 5 on both ends of the floor)

Backup PG ( A playmaker that can hit open shots and be a coach on the floor could help get guys easy shots when the team is struggling, preferably a big PG that can play next to Maxey.)

BackUp center ( A not washed Vet min. guy , hopefully , Bassey should also be implemented into the team by next season).

I think given the cap situation and draft capital available we’re gonna need to rely on player development to fill some of those gaps. We’ve actually seen good player development since Doc’s staff got here so I’m more hopeful than I would be in the past.

Ideally, Matisse’s jumper comes along which we’ve seen good results from him since Hardens arrival & he’s become a solid FT shooter. Bassey/Reed could be the answer at backup C & Springer can potentially develop into a serviceable backup G. It’s asking a lot for all those things to happen but it might be more likely than solving all of our problems through transactions.

To me they should sell high on Thybulle, as his value will never be higher than it is now. I'd love to see Morey somehow turn Harris, Thybulle, Green, and Milton into a couple of solid 3&D wings, and I agree that the backup big are already in house. As much as I'd love to see Springer make the leap, I feel like he will be used as a trade add-on.

[Ferry Avenue]

And of course after becoming a champion you can just see the increased confidence and swagger that Giannis carries himself with. He's not fundamentally a good shooter, but he takes and makes dirk fades and 3's in transition and tough midranges because he genuinely believes he's taking a shot he can and should make.

You develop that kind of confidence and swagger and then become a champion, not the other way around.

That's precisely what this Sixers team is missing -- in Embiid because he hasn't yet developed it in the clutch to the degree that it galvanizes him to win games like it does many of the top players in the league, and in Harden because he never has and likely never will. Maxey has more potential than either player in that regard, as evidenced by his recent performance against the Heat.

When Shaq says Giannis was "meaner" than Embiid, he's talking precisely about this subtle but profound distinction among players. And these are former players who know what wins via vast experience in the league, not nobodies on message boards like ourselves.

The Sixers just played the two top teams in the league in consecutive games and were beaten precisely by this distinction among players. Chris Paul beat them on Sunday, and Giannis beat them on Tuesday. Until they develop in this way, they'll always come up short against such teams in seven-game series. If they play the Heat in the playoffs, you can bet Jimmy Butler will beat them in game seven in Miami. If they play the Nets you can bet they'll be beaten by Durant/Irving long before game seven.

[76ciology]

Remember that time when we had hundred of threads talking about Ben Simmons trade? Just feels like thats the same exercise we’re doing with all the dream offseason moves.

We really can’t predict what will happen in the offseason.

For now, I think we need to find a defensive scheme for Durant and Giannis. Im thinking of Niang or Tobi playing “wall” defense. And if Thybulle is on the floor, he should sometimes provide the weakside challenge rather than Embiid always to make the Bucks defense guess.

If you watch the Giannis highlight, its so predictable that Embiid will help and it just lead to 4/9 shooting for Brolo from 3.

[Ferry Avenue]

I think the big difference between Giannis and Embiid right now is that in crunch time Giannis & Milwaukee know exactly what they want on offense. They’re either running a Jrue/Giannis PnR for a lob or isoing Giannis to get to the rim or shoot his turnaround from the left block.

Sixers seems to run an Embiid/Harden PnR to force a switch and then cross our fingers that one of them can make a shot. But often it leads to a contested step back or some other low percentage shot. And Embiid can still be sped up and forced into bad decisions so there isn’t really a better alternative. Ideally, we’d run some action to get Embiid a look at the left side elbow and let him go to work. But the problem is that teams will just double him which too often leads to a panicked, low quality shot or a turnover from Embiid.

Developing a closing strategy is the last leap that Embiid needs to make as a player to be the leader of a championship team.

This is all driven far more by a mentality than by a strategy. The best teams have players whose self-images are that of game-winners in the clutch and who consistently play in that manner. You could draw up the perfect strategy in those scenarios and if the players involved don't experience themselves as game-winners and play with that kind of swagger in those situations, they'll simply miss shots and make other mistakes. You saw it clearly in the past two games, while the two opposing teams involved played dramatically differently.

Michael Jordan was the epitome of what I'm talking about here. When you're talking about how the best teams in the league are distinguished from each other, that's done most effectively by determining the degree to which they possess a Jordan-like ability to perform in the clutch and win games. The Sixers are still well short of the best teams in the league in that regard, unfortunately.

[mjkvol]

Remember that time when we had hundred of threads talking about Ben Simmons trade? Just feels like thats the same exercise we’re doing with all the dream offseason moves.

We really can’t predict what will happen in the offseason.

For now, I think we need to find a defensive scheme for Durant and Giannis. Im thinking of Niang or Tobi playing “wall” defense. And if Thybulle is on the floor, he should sometimes provide the weakside challenge rather than Embiid always to make the Bucks defense guess.

If you watch the Giannis highlight, its so predictable that Embiid will help and it just lead to 4/9 shooting for Brolo from 3.

A creative coach might experiment with a young, athletic big in those matchups if they happened to be on his bench, but we wouldn't know anything about that.

[Mik317]

again Giannis was a career choke artist until last year lol.

In which Kris Middleton often turned into Jordan and Jrue handled the rock allowing Giannis to not have to create.

This whole dog mentality **** is lame lol. Giannis was always a high energy guy who played hard....that simply wasn't enough due to his supporting cast most of the time. Westbrook is probably the guy who plays the hardest in the whole league....has not worked for him lately ha.

Embiid will probably never be a closer. Too big. Too goofy at times. It is what it is. However, both him and Harden got shots they can and have made and just missed them...**** happens. Guys are trying to build their narrative over it when the reality, the game turned during that bench time and the Bucks got into rhythm and we couldn't get back into ours. Giannis scored 15 of his points against that second unit. That was the game....its not that hard of a concept.

[Ferry Avenue]

again Giannis was a career choke artist until last year lol.

And last year he won a championship.

Embiid and Harden are choke artists to this day and neither has won one. What more is there to say?

Embiid will probably never be a closer. Too big. Too goofy at times. It is what it is. However, both him and Harden got shots they can and have made and just missed them...**** happens. Guys are trying to build their narrative over it when the reality, the game turned during that bench time and the Bucks got into rhythm and we couldn't get back into ours. Giannis scored 15 of his points against that second unit. That was the game....its not that hard of a concept.

That kind of variation is present in the vast majority of games in the league. If Giannis hadn't pulled the team back into it, some other player would have, and a similar scenario would've existed in the clutch.

The Bucks play with the kind of mentality that keeps them in a game like that and ultimately wins it. If it isn't Giannis it's someone else. The Sixers don't have that mentality.

Some are operating under the fantasy here that some 11th or 12th player on a team is the difference against the reigning NBA champions in a hard-fought game with meaning. Ridiculous. The NBA at that level is driven by far more relevant and impactful variables than 11th and 12th players on teams' benches.

[stormi]

And of course after becoming a champion you can just see the increased confidence and swagger that Giannis carries himself with. He's not fundamentally a good shooter, but he takes and makes dirk fades and 3's in transition and tough midranges because he genuinely believes he's taking a shot he can and should make.

You develop that kind of confidence and swagger and then become a champion, not the other way around.

Yea, and my point is that it wasn't always there. And Giannis had a lot of help along the way in the form of Coach Bud and Khris Middleton who helped him combine to take that first step and get to an ECF, and then the final push was them taking that leap and the addition of Jrue Holiday.

Up until James Harden arrived I would say Embiid had zero current long term foundational pieces on this roster that could be relied upon long term (beside maybe the unknown potential of Tyrese Maxey). Tobias Harris and Doc Rivers have been detriments to the long term success of this franchise and they're seen more of as contracts that needs to be excavated for this team to improve whereas Giannis+Middleton was a clear foundation.

Even though this season has been rocky, we've still seen the top end offensive potential of Harden/Embiid and it's frightening. You need to create your own momentum and there's no better time than the playoffs to find your level.

If Jo and Harden make a run to the ECF (or beyond) it would be the start of their own momentum, you'd see them come back next season (hopefully with a more optimized roster) with much higher confidence levels and self belief that they can do this thing together.

[stormi]

In which Kris Middleton often turned into Jordan

LMAO

[Murray_17]

again Giannis was a career choke artist until last year lol.

And last year he won a championship.

Embiid and Harden are choke artists to this day and neither has won one. What more is there to say?

That the difference between Harden/Embiid and Giannis is KD using big shoes.

If your "mentality" argument hang on stuff like that, it's clear is BS

[Ferry Avenue]

again Giannis was a career choke artist until last year lol.

And last year he won a championship.

Embiid and Harden are choke artists to this day and neither has won one. What more is there to say?

That the difference between Harden/Embiid and Giannis is KD using big shoes.

If your "mentality" argument hang on stuff like that, it's clear is BS

Watch the TNT crew analyze games and just about every night they'll specify mental/emotional variables as the difference-makers between teams. Take it from them, not me. These are former players who played at a very high level and have a far greater understanding of what wins games than you or I do.