Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?)

[brannigan73]

Imagine asking for the max after completely **** the bed.

He didnt "completely **** the bed". He averaged 20 and 10 and had two 40 point games in the playoffs. Sure he was awful in the others and so were other people. He deserves a lot of the blame for the loss, but so do a lot of other people. Get the theme here? If he thinks he can get it there is no reason he shouldnt ask for it. You would 100% ask for a max if you were Harden. That doesnt mean the Sixers should do it but its not realistic what you said. Nobody thinks like that. Im sure he is unhappy with his performancce but he'll also say to himself Im a future HOF and averaged 20 and 10 Im going to try to get mine.

[FireMorey]

Cuban has fumbled the bag ever since their chip tho...always chasing stars and never getting them; he lucked into Luka and is in the process of fumbling that.

But their misses aren't from a lack of trying or being complacent or cowardly. The Sixers are. It's one thing to misevaluate players. That happens. But they allowed Hinkie to be forced out and the Colangelos forced on them and then went into 2019 without a GM. Cuban would NEVEEEER allow that crap to go down in his organization. Hinkie being forced out was the beginning of the end of everything they built. Colangelo blew most of their assets and the next GMs blew the rest.

[the_process]

A Harden S&T from the Sixers perspective should involve giving up a 2nd and taking back no salary in return. That is all.

[Jailblazers7]

This all starts with Harris. They will never win with him as an owner. Ask yourself this. If the Mavericks under Cuban had this type of collapse year after year, if he'd just keep things status quo. Even when the Mavs make moves that don't work out, at least they try. Great owners don't stand for this. And if they hire a GM who can't get it done, they'll keep looking for someone who can.

There's no doubt in my mind it will be business as usual down there. Everyone's job is safe(except maybe Rivers). Morey has a cushy job for life, he'll never be fired. And he can just continue on with his uninspired blase attitude and look for the next ex-Rocket to add to the roster.

Cuban broke up a championship roster because he was cheap to resign Tyson Chandler, oversaw an organization with rampant sexual harassment over a 20 year period, and was too cheap to sign Jalen Brunson to what would now be the best deal in pro sports. He’s is an AWFUL example to uphold as a great owner.

[FireMorey]

This all starts with Harris. They will never win with him as an owner. Ask yourself this. If the Mavericks under Cuban had this type of collapse year after year, if he'd just keep things status quo. Even when the Mavs make moves that don't work out, at least they try. Great owners don't stand for this. And if they hire a GM who can't get it done, they'll keep looking for someone who can.

There's no doubt in my mind it will be business as usual down there. Everyone's job is safe(except maybe Rivers). Morey has a cushy job for life, he'll never be fired. And he can just continue on with his uninspired blase attitude and look for the next ex-Rocket to add to the roster.

Cuban broke up a championship roster because he was cheap to resign Tyson Chandler, oversaw an organization with rampant sexual harassment over a 20 year period, and was too cheap to sign Jalen Brunson to what would now be the best deal in pro sports. He’s is an AWFUL example to uphold as a great owner.

Forgot about the sexual harassment thing, but do we know he was "too cheap" to sign Brunson and they just didn't evaluate him as a #1 guy when he was there? Seems like it was just a bad evaluation of the player. Anyway, fair points, but you get the premise. Whether it's Cuban or you want to pick different ownership, the point that Josh Harris is a turd remains.

[Negrodamus]

Imagine asking for the max after completely **** the bed.

He didnt "completely **** the bed". He averaged 20 and 10 and had two 40 point games in the playoffs. Sure he was awful in the others and so were other people. He deserves a lot of the blame for the loss, but so do a lot of other people. Get the theme here? If he thinks he can get it there is no reason he shouldnt ask for it. You would 100% ask for a max if you were Harden. That doesnt mean the Sixers should do it but its not realistic what you said. Nobody thinks like that. Im sure he is unhappy with his performancce but he'll also say to himself Im a future HOF and averaged 20 and 10 Im going to try to get mine.

For what is asked of him, he **** the bed, sorry. He's supposed to be a star on a max contract and he showed up for 2 games in a series where the other team was frankly playing very poorly.

Yes, literally asking for the max is not crazy or wrong. Strong arming the organization into doing it with stupid leaks to the media is just a bad look and we shouldn't conceded. In the end, all of this is unnecessary: Morey will bow to him as he hands him a max contract to sign.

[Arsenal]

This all starts with Harris. They will never win with him as an owner. Ask yourself this. If the Mavericks under Cuban had this type of collapse year after year, if he'd just keep things status quo. Even when the Mavs make moves that don't work out, at least they try. Great owners don't stand for this. And if they hire a GM who can't get it done, they'll keep looking for someone who can.

There's no doubt in my mind it will be business as usual down there. Everyone's job is safe(except maybe Rivers). Morey has a cushy job for life, he'll never be fired. And he can just continue on with his uninspired blase attitude and look for the next ex-Rocket to add to the roster.

Cuban broke up a championship roster because he was cheap to resign Tyson Chandler, oversaw an organization with rampant sexual harassment over a 20 year period, and was too cheap to sign Jalen Brunson to what would now be the best deal in pro sports. He’s is an AWFUL example to uphold as a great owner.

Cuban has made mistakes but he's 10x the owner that Joshua is. Harris has owned the team for TWELVE years and never gotten out of the 2nd round. The little rat should be ashamed but for some reason he's not catching any heat for his incompetence.

[Arsenal]

A Harden S&T from the Sixers perspective should involve giving up a 2nd and taking back no salary in return. That is all.

Agree. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind taking a flier on a guy like Gordon Hayward if we could get him in a Harden S&T. Helps with size and playmaking for a year, then he expires along with a ton of other salaries next summer.

[Jailblazers7]

Oh, Josh Harris can for sure go f*ck himself. No organization can be this dysfunctional without the owner being a problem. The Colangelo years alone & then the weird Brett/Elton GM phase was a clear case of mismanagement by the Harris. I just don’t like Cuban & think he gets held up as a smart guy because he’s really vocal and stars on Shark Tank.

[FlyingArrow]

I don't see a good move player-wise, but maybe it's there. Which means... run it back minus Doc.

Embiid is our MVP. He didn't get it done in the playoffs, but we aren't getting it done without a top 10 player. What top ten player are we getting for Embiid? It's not time to re-start the process. The only thing that would make sense is to trade him for Wemby, and I'd be on board for that. But I can't think of a team that would do that other than maybe the Blazers if they win the lotto and want to win with Lillard still there without waiting for Wemby to develop. In terms of actual trade value, I think Embiid is worth about the same as Wemby, but I don't think any other team that wins the lotto would be in enough of a win-now mode to make the trade.

Harden will decide what to do, but I don't think he's getting a big offer sheet anywhere, which means he will opt-in. If he does sign somewhere else, hopefully we can make it a sign-and-trade so that we can give up a 2nd round pick just to get the trade exception. Harden will be about the same next year, but a slight bit worse since he's a year older.

Maxey is our best hope for improvement (other than a coaching change). Still young enough to add more to his game. What's his trade value? I think he has trade value, but he isn't overvalued... we'd get back someone as good as Maxey, no better. So what's the point?

If we can flip Tobias for something better at the trade deadline, then absolutely do it. But he's one of the better 4th options out there. His contract is terrible, but his play is fine. He's like a 3&D role player with a little more creation of his own and a little less D. Not at all worth his contract, but absolutely worth a roster and starting spot. This year he posted a career high TS%, largely driven by his career high in 3pt attempt rate.

Then the bench and Tucker... we can get marginal improvement, but it's also marginal impact.

The real change has to come from a new coach, who gets Embiid to be a defense-first player, and who plays him low enough minutes that he can maintain his energy level. And also make all the pieces fit together.

[seventy6ers]

1) Fire Doc Rivers
2) Keep Harden
3) Find a shooter not named Niang

[Iverson Armband]

1) Fire Doc Rivers
2) Keep Harden
3) Find a shooter not named Niang
4) Lose in the second round

[the_process]

A Harden S&T from the Sixers perspective should involve giving up a 2nd and taking back no salary in return. That is all.

Agree. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind taking a flier on a guy like Gordon Hayward if we could get him in a Harden S&T. Helps with size and playmaking for a year, then he expires along with a ton of other salaries next summer.

If the Hornets want to dump Hayward for straight cap? That would cost them.

[Negrodamus]

My prediction is something like:

Maxey and Harris for VanVleet and OG Anunoby.

FVV is a whatever player, same with Tobias. Maxey fits the scoring "PG" position that'll concede ballhandling duties to Barnes. Anunoby is the type of role playing PF that Harden would like to play with.

Makes sense for both teams and you know Morey wants one last crack at it with Harden.

EDIT: to be clear, I don't want it.

[mksp]

If we're in general agreement that Embiid was one of the primary reasons we lost, what reasonable improvement can Embiid make that will get us over the hump?

He's not 25 anymore.

[the_process]

So Jo vouched for Glenn to be back? Yet another reason...

[FlyingArrow]

If we're in general agreement that Embiid was one of the primary reasons we lost, what reasonable improvement can Embiid make that will get us over the hump?

He's not 25 anymore.

Play no more than 35 minutes per game, even in the playoffs. Average more like 30 or 31 minutes per game. That in itself should help considerably. Less of tired-Joel. Less of Joel playing lazy trying to save energy for later.

Lower usage rate and corresponding uptick in defensive intensity. We've seen defensive possessions where Joel basically stops the whole team by himself. More of that. But it's tiring... that means fewer shots on offense. More rebounds as well, with the same tradeoff. Boxing out and fighting for rebounds is tiring... meaning fewer shots on offense.

As part of the fewer shots... far fewer shots involving multiple dribbles. He had far too many turnovers driving in and finding himself in a double team that he didn't see coming. Turnovers. Stop those. Keep the trailing 3pt shots, the deep post moves, the elbow jumpers, and add more OReb putbacks. Just stop the dribble drives that sometimes look amazing but too often end in turnovers.

So that's where he can improve. It takes buy-in from Joel as well as a coaching change, because you know Doc isn't going to push for anything like that. But as much as Joel wanted the MVP, maybe he wants DPOY next year. If so, that goal might actually serve the team well.

[Negrodamus]

I could also see us target Covington since he's had a falling out with Lue. Also had a stop in Houston after Philly.

[the_process]

My prediction is something like:

Maxey and Harris for VanVleet and OG Anunoby.

FVV is a whatever player, same with Tobias. Maxey fits the scoring "PG" position that'll concede ballhandling duties to Barnes. Anunoby is the type of role playing PF that Harden would like to play with.

Makes sense for both teams and you know Morey wants one last crack at it with Harden.

EDIT: to be clear, I don't want it.

OG wants to be a first or second option.

Toronto has their usual absurd ask as well... three firsts and a young guy or some such.

[mksp]

If we're in general agreement that Embiid was one of the primary reasons we lost, what reasonable improvement can Embiid make that will get us over the hump?

He's not 25 anymore.

Play no more than 35 minutes per game, even in the playoffs. Average more like 30 or 31 minutes per game. That in itself should help considerably. Less of tired-Joel. Less of Joel playing lazy trying to save energy for later.

Lower usage rate and corresponding uptick in defensive intensity. We've seen defensive possessions where Joel basically stops the whole team by himself. More of that. But it's tiring... that means fewer shots on offense. More rebounds as well, with the same tradeoff. Boxing out and fighting for rebounds is tiring... meaning fewer shots on offense.

As part of the fewer shots... far fewer shots involving multiple dribbles. He had far too many turnovers driving in and finding himself in a double team that he didn't see coming. Turnovers. Stop those. Keep the trailing 3pt shots, the deep post moves, the elbow jumpers, and add more OReb putbacks. Just stop the dribble drives that sometimes look amazing but too often end in turnovers.

So that's where he can improve. It takes buy-in from Joel as well as a coaching change, because you know Doc isn't going to push for anything like that. But as much as Joel wanted the MVP, maybe he wants DPOY next year. If so, that goal might actually serve the team well.

This feels more like a game planning change than anything, though I agree with it.

I don't know if Joel will go for it though. Remember, he thinks he's Kobe, Jordan, Lebron.