2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[Negrodamus]

Had a little time to kill so threw together a top-10 BB for ****

1. Ball - Great size, high level of skill, with a BBIQ on par with the NBA's all time great distributors. Underrated scorer, and his advanced metrics give reason to be optimistic about his defense.

2. Fultz - Harden fused with Wade, almost impossible that he stays healthy and isn't at least a good pro.

3. Jackson - Would be #1 for me if I thought that shot was for real, but I don't. He's a lot of what people convinced themselves that Andrew Wiggins was pre-draft after that lousy year at KU. Reminds me of a more upside-y version of Shawn Marion with a worse shot.

4. Lauri - His FT% puts him in elite company. Has a legitimate chance to end his career as the 2nd best shooting 7-footer of all time behind Dirk. Versatile, efficient scorer, and mobile enough to defend on the perimeter. Needs a rim protector alongside him. PUT THIS MAN NEXT TO EMBIID.

5. Monk - Godlike shooter with sneakily good vision and passing skills, who will in all likelihood be a bad defender and rebounder in the NBA. Great feel for the game on offense.

6. Fox - Great passer, ballhandler, defender, and overall athlete. FT% gives reason for optimism regarding his shot. Wealthy man's Elfrid Payton (if the shot doesn't develop).

7. Isaac - Amazing defender,offensive is bad off the dribble, a poor passer, and his low usage rate in college gives me pause when trying to project his future outlook on the offensive end.

8. Tatum - Confusing prospect; thought for sure entering the season that he would be a black hole - no defense type, ala Jabari or Melo, but his defense has not only been randomly great but it's even been ahead of his offense. Whether that's for real, I have no clue. Offensively his FT%, flashes of brilliance passing the ball, and volume scoring are exciting, but the 3pt shooting, offensive rebounding woes, and turnover rate are concerning.

9. Giles - Doesn't seem to fully trust the knee, doesn't yet understand defensive concepts, and has poor instincts. Physical profile and past body of work makes him a worthwhile gamble in this range imo

10. Bridges - Contingent on whether the shot continues to fall.

Guys I'm lower on than consensus:
DSJ - No conceivable path to being a better pro than Ball. Not hard for me to see him developing into a fine NBA pro, but his profile is littered with red flags. Has good vision, ballhandling, and shooting, but his BBIQ is bad, overrated athlete, poor length for the position, not-great passing, and lazy defender.

Frank - Terrible player in a less-than-stellar league. Has some defensive upside, but offensively is a zero. I think he's Exum with a slightly more promising J but even less playmaking potential

While you're confused about my Ball ranking, I'm a bit confused about Tatum.

He's shooting the best FT% of anyone in your top 10, including Markannen (and more FTA per game than Lauri too). He's shooting 39% from 3. He's over 6'8 with shoes and a 6'11 wingspan. Plays phenomenal defense.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

[Sixerscan]

Very excited for the Lakers pick to become #4 and getting the opportunity to stan for Monk for a month.

[yourewrong]

Had a little time to kill so threw together a top-10 BB for ****

1. Ball - Great size, high level of skill, with a BBIQ on par with the NBA's all time great distributors. Underrated scorer, and his advanced metrics give reason to be optimistic about his defense.

2. Fultz - Harden fused with Wade, almost impossible that he stays healthy and isn't at least a good pro.

3. Jackson - Would be #1 for me if I thought that shot was for real, but I don't. He's a lot of what people convinced themselves that Andrew Wiggins was pre-draft after that lousy year at KU. Reminds me of a more upside-y version of Shawn Marion with a worse shot.

4. Lauri - His FT% puts him in elite company. Has a legitimate chance to end his career as the 2nd best shooting 7-footer of all time behind Dirk. Versatile, efficient scorer, and mobile enough to defend on the perimeter. Needs a rim protector alongside him. PUT THIS MAN NEXT TO EMBIID.

5. Monk - Godlike shooter with sneakily good vision and passing skills, who will in all likelihood be a bad defender and rebounder in the NBA. Great feel for the game on offense.

6. Fox - Great passer, ballhandler, defender, and overall athlete. FT% gives reason for optimism regarding his shot. Wealthy man's Elfrid Payton (if the shot doesn't develop).

7. Isaac - Amazing defender,offensive is bad off the dribble, a poor passer, and his low usage rate in college gives me pause when trying to project his future outlook on the offensive end.

8. Tatum - Confusing prospect; thought for sure entering the season that he would be a black hole - no defense type, ala Jabari or Melo, but his defense has not only been randomly great but it's even been ahead of his offense. Whether that's for real, I have no clue. Offensively his FT%, flashes of brilliance passing the ball, and volume scoring are exciting, but the 3pt shooting, offensive rebounding woes, and turnover rate are concerning.

9. Giles - Doesn't seem to fully trust the knee, doesn't yet understand defensive concepts, and has poor instincts. Physical profile and past body of work makes him a worthwhile gamble in this range imo

10. Bridges - Contingent on whether the shot continues to fall.

Guys I'm lower on than consensus:
DSJ - No conceivable path to being a better pro than Ball. Not hard for me to see him developing into a fine NBA pro, but his profile is littered with red flags. Has good vision, ballhandling, and shooting, but his BBIQ is bad, overrated athlete, poor length for the position, not-great passing, and lazy defender.

Frank - Terrible player in a less-than-stellar league. Has some defensive upside, but offensively is a zero. I think he's Exum with a slightly more promising J but even less playmaking potential

While you're confused about my Ball ranking, I'm a bit confused about Tatum.

He's shooting the best FT% of anyone in your top 10, including Markannen (and more FTA per game than Lauri too). He's shooting 39% from 3. He's over 6'8 with shoes and a 6'11 wingspan. Plays phenomenal defense.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here.

To be clear, I think he could be a better version of Melo, but I also think his floor is a GR3 type player.

[cksdayoff]

i like fox, he could be a star or a decent starter. i hope he will be able to fill out his frame.

i'm not gonna complain too much whomever the sixers pick

[Negrodamus]

Very excited for the Lakers pick to become #4 and getting the opportunity to stan for Monk for a month.

I'll tell you what, he's been passing and slashing to the basket incredibly well over the past few games. If nothing else, he'd be a lot of fun to watch on this Sixers team.

[LloydFree]

Very excited for the Lakers pick to become #4 and getting the opportunity to stan for Monk for a month.

If the 76ers select Malik Monk at #4, I won't be mad at all. In my eyes #4-10 are all about the same level talent. If they feel Monk is the best fit, I'm fine with it.

[SparksFly87]

I wish Monk was 6'6 he'd be kobe.

[Unbreakable99]

I wish Monk was 6'6 he'd be kobe.

I wouldn't go that far. He doesn't have the handles Kobe had.

[sixers23]

Seems ball and monk are the overrated guys on this board

[shawn_hemp]

1. Markelle Fultz
2. Josh Jackson
3. Jonathan Isaac
4. Lonzo Ball
5. Malik Monk
6. Lauri Markkanen
7. Jayson Tatum
8. De'Aaron Fox
9. Robert Williams
10. Dennis Smith Jr.

How I'd rank the "projected top 10 players" IMO.

There will definitely be players outside this group that are better picks, but it depends on what team they go to really.

I like Mitchell from Louisville as well.

OG Anunoby might be the best defender in this draft, super athletic dude for his size and build. Right there with Jackson on defense IMO.

Then you have the real unknowns like Giles, Ntilikina, or Terrence Ferguson.

At least one of those 3 will probably turn out to be a good player, I'd guess Ferguson

[Kobblehead]

Thornwell has to do everything for this South Carolina team. Man, PJ Dozier fell off.

[PLO]

^ ^ agree with Ball being over-rated here. As for the comparisons with Curry Ball's handle is light years behind and can only finish from one level, and even that level is suspect because of the terrible mechanics on his shot. Curry and Fultz can finish from all three levels with ridiculous ease. The more I think about Ball the less I like him. If we do trade for him he won't be playing PG and in fact I don't think he will be able to play PG anywhere in the league; he's a SG which sucks because the one area he is elite in is passing. I had him in a 2nd or 3rd tier a few weeks ago but seriously considering dropping him down further - I really don't think much of what he does will transfer to the NBA. Ball ahead of Fultz on any board is pretty absurd IMO.

[Negrodamus]

I have a feeling Monk is going to have a big night tonight. Missouri blows and he hasn't put up a big scoring night in a minute.

[shawn_hemp]

^ ^ agree with Ball being over-rated here. As for the comparisons with Curry Ball's handle is light years behind and can only finish from one level, and even that level is suspect because of the terrible mechanics on his shot. Curry and Fultz can finish from all three levels with ridiculous ease. The more I think about Ball the less I like him. If we do trade for him he won't be playing PG and in fact I don't think he will be able to play PG anywhere in the league; he's a SG which sucks because the one area he is elite in is passing. I had him in a 2nd or 3rd tier a few weeks ago but seriously considering dropping him down further - I really don't think much of what he does will transfer to the NBA. Ball ahead of Fultz on any board is pretty absurd IMO.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I think he also has the potential to be a good starting player in the NBA.

That's the main reason I still have Ball at 4, he is a high-risk / high-reward pick IMO

Idk how to feel about his shot. Shawn Marion had a pretty funky release as well.

I can see Ball becoming a Brandon Jennings type of player in the NBA

[Ericb5]

Ball should be better defensively than DSJ, and his shot, while ugly, has great rotation. I can't understand putting him this low, he compares REALLY favorably to guys like Stockton, Kidd, and CP3

Ball is shooting 70℅ on 2pt fgs... Think about that.

Lonzo Ball is the perfect fit for the Morey-ball era. The guy is just too smart to take inefficient shots.

Lonzo's biggest attributes are his vision, and instincts. He just makes he right play constantly, and quickly. It's one of those things that can't be taught, and is hard to measure.

His passing reminds me a bit of Simmons' passing. The idea of putting them both on the same team is exciting.


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[Ericb5]

Lonzo Ball is the perfect fit for the Morey-ball era. The guy is just too smart to take inefficient shots.

Yup, I'd love him here and his dad would fit perfectly, especially if Okafor is gone

Yeah, people are laughing at his dad right now because of all his hyperbole, but Lonzo Ball's Freshmen #'s are as good as Steph's Junior #'s, across the board (except the FT℅ and attempts). Maybe dad knows something.

I know that his dad is just a proud father, and has a fun personality, but if he were my dad I would be begging him to shut up.


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[PLO]

^ ^ agree with Ball being over-rated here. As for the comparisons with Curry Ball's handle is light years behind and can only finish from one level, and even that level is suspect because of the terrible mechanics on his shot. Curry and Fultz can finish from all three levels with ridiculous ease. The more I think about Ball the less I like him. If we do trade for him he won't be playing PG and in fact I don't think he will be able to play PG anywhere in the league; he's a SG which sucks because the one area he is elite in is passing. I had him in a 2nd or 3rd tier a few weeks ago but seriously considering dropping him down further - I really don't think much of what he does will transfer to the NBA. Ball ahead of Fultz on any board is pretty absurd IMO.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I think he also has the potential to be a good starting player in the NBA.

That's the main reason I still have Ball at 4, he is a high-risk / high-reward pick IMO

Idk how to feel about his shot. Shawn Marion had a pretty funky release as well.

I can see Ball becoming a Brandon Jennings type of player in the NBA

I had Ball around 4 or 5 not that long ago; as far as what Ericb5 mentioned with his passing I agree he has great vision, I don't think he's going to get that much of a chance to showcase it though in the NBA because he does not have the handle to be a PG - he's a SG. I really hope the 6ers don't take a risk with him if we have the chance, unless he drops to somewhere like 8 - 10 or somewhere like that and that's where our pick is.

[sixerswillrule]

^ ^ agree with Ball being over-rated here. As for the comparisons with Curry Ball's handle is light years behind and can only finish from one level, and even that level is suspect because of the terrible mechanics on his shot. Curry and Fultz can finish from all three levels with ridiculous ease. The more I think about Ball the less I like him. If we do trade for him he won't be playing PG and in fact I don't think he will be able to play PG anywhere in the league; he's a SG which sucks because the one area he is elite in is passing. I had him in a 2nd or 3rd tier a few weeks ago but seriously considering dropping him down further - I really don't think much of what he does will transfer to the NBA. Ball ahead of Fultz on any board is pretty absurd IMO.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I think he also has the potential to be a good starting player in the NBA.

That's the main reason I still have Ball at 4, he is a high-risk / high-reward pick IMO

Idk how to feel about his shot. Shawn Marion had a pretty funky release as well.

I can see Ball becoming a Brandon Jennings type of player in the NBA

I had Ball around 4 or 5 not that long ago; as far as what Ericb5 mentioned with his passing I agree he has great vision, I don't think he's going to get that much of a chance to showcase it though in the NBA because he does not have the handle to be a PG - he's a SG. I really hope the 6ers don't take a risk with him if we have the chance, unless he drops to somewhere like 8 - 10 or somewhere like that and that's where our pick is.

I wouldn't put him as low as 8-10 but I agree with most of what you said. Excellent vision and passing but without the PG handles to consistently break down the defense. In that regard he reminds me of Iguodala.

[SparksFly87]

Ball to me will be better as a shooting guard.

[yourewrong]

^ ^ agree with Ball being over-rated here. As for the comparisons with Curry Ball's handle is light years behind and can only finish from one level, and even that level is suspect because of the terrible mechanics on his shot. Curry and Fultz can finish from all three levels with ridiculous ease. The more I think about Ball the less I like him. If we do trade for him he won't be playing PG and in fact I don't think he will be able to play PG anywhere in the league; he's a SG which sucks because the one area he is elite in is passing. I had him in a 2nd or 3rd tier a few weeks ago but seriously considering dropping him down further - I really don't think much of what he does will transfer to the NBA. Ball ahead of Fultz on any board is pretty absurd IMO.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I think he also has the potential to be a good starting player in the NBA.

That's the main reason I still have Ball at 4, he is a high-risk / high-reward pick IMO

Idk how to feel about his shot. Shawn Marion had a pretty funky release as well.

I can see Ball becoming a Brandon Jennings type of player in the NBA

The allure with Ball is the potentially GOAT-level BBIQ. If you don't buy into that with him, then he's rightfully plummeting down a board.