2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread III

[76thBearCub]

I still don't understand how some people speak so matter of factly about these prospects when you can go back a couple years and read how wrong a lot of it was.

[Kobblehead]

I'm okay with the idea of Issac. Dude needs to hit the weight room but in theory he's exactly what the league of today likes. I think he's more of a if we get two picks guy rather than just THE guy we draft tho.

and if we do get two picks, I kinda doubt we keep both. Don't want to have to intergrate 3 rookies at the same time I'd guess.

Isaac is a gamble. He could be a lesser version of Ingram..

Nah, Isaac was significantly better than Ingram was as a freshman.

[PLO]

I'm okay with the idea of Issac. Dude needs to hit the weight room but in theory he's exactly what the league of today likes. I think he's more of a if we get two picks guy rather than just THE guy we draft tho.

and if we do get two picks, I kinda doubt we keep both. Don't want to have to intergrate 3 rookies at the same time I'd guess.

Isaac is a gamble. He could be a lesser version of Ingram..

Nah, Isaac was significantly better than Ingram was as a freshman.

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

[Ericb5]

Isaac is a gamble. He could be a lesser version of Ingram..

Nah, Isaac was significantly better than Ingram was as a freshman.

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

As long as his attitude and confidence are high, I think playing Ingram 30+ minutes a night is the best way for him to learn.

Just let him drink from the firehose until the game starts to get easier for him.


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[Unbreakable99]

Josh Jackson - the Giannis stopper. We need a defensive wing dog other than Covington to throw at Giannis. Thon Maker did his best KG impersonation today. We need a PF to make him work. Maker would crush Saric lol.

[PLO]

Josh Jackson - the Giannis stopper. We need a defensive wing dog other than Covington to throw at Giannis. Thon Maker did his best KG impersonation today. We need a PF to make him work. Maker would crush Saric lol.

Actually Maker's performance shows why Isaac is a better pick than Jackson, and in fact I think Jackson is going to be exclusively guarding SFs down the line. Isaac is going to be the Swiss-army knife defender out of this draft years down the track - admittedly he has to be more aggressive and has some technical issues, but like with Maker guys of that length with quick feet and fluid hips are super rare. If Isaac has the same drive as Maker the sky is the limit - Maker was playing high school ball around this time last year - his performance today in the 3rd quarter should be seen in that light. The Bucks are a scary team when you think about their length and the age of that team.

[76ciology]

I'm okay with the idea of Issac. Dude needs to hit the weight room but in theory he's exactly what the league of today likes. I think he's more of a if we get two picks guy rather than just THE guy we draft tho.

and if we do get two picks, I kinda doubt we keep both. Don't want to have to intergrate 3 rookies at the same time I'd guess.

Isaac is a gamble. He could be a lesser version of Ingram..

Nah, Isaac was significantly better than Ingram was as a freshman.

Yup, thats why I like him

[76ciology]

Giannis will be harmless if Embiid's in the paint. Didn't watch the Raps-Bucks game. Letting him take jumpers with a guys like Justin Anderson or RoCo that he can't bully down low also sounds like a feasible plan.

[Kobblehead]

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

He was getting them Durant comps coming out of highschool, his freshman year had nothing to do with it. He was not very good as a freshman. He was a mere catch and shoot player that couldn't finish or defend.

[Eyeamok]

Nah, Isaac was significantly better than Ingram was as a freshman.

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

As long as his attitude and confidence are high, I think playing Ingram 30+ minutes a night is the best way for him to learn.

Just let him drink from the firehose until the game starts to get easier for him.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Letting him drink from the firehose is such a horrible way to learn. It's an easy way to compound your mistakes and develop a lot of bad habits. Sitting on the bench and watching someone else do what you should do then going in and dong it has proven to be much more effective way of learning.

But Ingram is the Lakers problem not ours so have at it.

And even though I hate the fact that Simmons did not play the entire season. If he is on the same development/study program that Embiid was on. He should be more court aware next season which is great for the team.

[Ericb5]

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

As long as his attitude and confidence are high, I think playing Ingram 30+ minutes a night is the best way for him to learn.

Just let him drink from the firehose until the game starts to get easier for him.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Letting him drink from the firehose is such a horrible way to learn. It's an easy way to compound your mistakes and develop a lot of bad habits. Sitting on the bench and watching someone else do what you should do then going in and dong it has proven to be much more effective way of learning.

But Ingram is the Lakers problem not ours so have at it.

And even though I hate the fact that Simmons did not play the entire season. If he is on the same development/study program that Embiid was on. He should be more court aware next season which is great for the team.

There are pitfalls with either method, and I think it comes down to psychology. I haven't followed him closely enough this year to know how he has reacted to it mentally. As long as he has kept his head up, and isn't getting demoralized, I think extra minutes is a good thing for him.


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[LloydFree]

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

As long as his attitude and confidence are high, I think playing Ingram 30+ minutes a night is the best way for him to learn.

Just let him drink from the firehose until the game starts to get easier for him.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Letting him drink from the firehose is such a horrible way to learn. It's an easy way to compound your mistakes and develop a lot of bad habits. Sitting on the bench and watching someone else do what you should do then going in and dong it has proven to be much more effective way of learning.

But Ingram is the Lakers problem not ours so have at it.

And even though I hate the fact that Simmons did not play the entire season. If he is on the same development/study program that Embiid was on. He should be more court aware next season which is great for the team.

Since when is allowing a young player to learn by playing a bad thing? Dallas sent Dirk out there before he was ready to compete and he looked terrible for two years, before he caught up. You either have the talent or you don't. He's not strong enough to look good. If he fails, it won't be because they gave him too many minutes in his rookie year, it will be because he doesn't have the talent or skills.

[cksdayoff]

As long as his attitude and confidence are high, I think playing Ingram 30+ minutes a night is the best way for him to learn.

Just let him drink from the firehose until the game starts to get easier for him.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Letting him drink from the firehose is such a horrible way to learn. It's an easy way to compound your mistakes and develop a lot of bad habits. Sitting on the bench and watching someone else do what you should do then going in and dong it has proven to be much more effective way of learning.

But Ingram is the Lakers problem not ours so have at it.

And even though I hate the fact that Simmons did not play the entire season. If he is on the same development/study program that Embiid was on. He should be more court aware next season which is great for the team.

Since when is allowing a young player to learn by playing a bad thing? Dallas sent Dirk out there before he was ready to compete and he looked terrible for two years, before he caught up. You either have the talent or you don't. He's not strong enough to look good. If he calls, it won't be because they gave him too many minutes in his rookie year, it will be because he doesn't have the talent or skills.

Agreed. i am in the line of thinking that sending young players out to the wolves earlier is better. They need to get acclimated to the physicality, length, and speed of the game. The sooner the better. If they have the talent, they will adjust. The adjustment period could be a year, could be two years. And I feel more confident when you have a good headcoach and staff.

I'm also for one and dones. The sooner they get into the league and start playing, the better they'll be in the future (if they have the talent)

[smittybanton]

Isaac is a gamble. He could be a lesser version of Ingram..

Nah, Isaac was significantly better than Ingram was as a freshman.

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

What made Ingram so special to me was his ability to handle the rock for someone so long and sleight and young. Agreed, the KD comparisons were very lazy, stemming from his hot 3pt shooting coming out the gate. For me the comparison was Paul George, and I still think he gets there. There's only so much you can do on offense if you can't put the ball on the floor. Isaac has a high floor, and I think he and Saric would be a great tandem at the four. But I don't see Isaac being better than Ingram over the long haul because of ballhandling. Not impossible, of course. Bacon and Mann and Mayes are very aggressive, and Leonard Hamilton seemed to suggest that Isaac had game he wasn't showing, out of deference to older players. Considering all the cap space we have to get guards, I would not mind at all taking Isaac at #5.

[LloydFree]

Nah, Isaac was significantly better than Ingram was as a freshman.

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

What made Ingram so special to me was his ability to handle the rock for someone so long and sleight and young. Agreed, the KD comparisons were very lazy, stemming from his hot 3pt shooting coming out the gate. For me the comparison was Paul George, and I still think he gets there. There's only so much you can do on offense if you can't put the ball on the floor. Isaac has a high floor, and I think he and Saric would be a great tandem at the four. But I don't see Isaac being better than Ingram over the long haul because of ballhandling. Not impossible, of course. Bacon and Mann and Mayes are very aggressive, and Leonard Hamilton seemed to suggest that Isaac had game he wasn't showing, out of deference to older players. Considering all the cap space we have to get guards, I would not mind at all taking Isaac at #5.

As far as tools and skills are concerned, Isaac is one of the best 4 players in this draft. His only issues are his future physical development and whether he has the alpha make-up that the very good players generally have. If he's weak and doesn't have the 'make-up', he could end up struggling early and glued to the bench like Brendan Wright or even Noah Vonleh.

[Unbreakable99]

How is Isaac's defense compare to Jackson's? I didn't see too much of Isaac but he seemed pretty good on defense. He said taller and longer than Jackson it seems. Can Isaac become a better defender than Jackson? Does he have a better than average chance to be a better defender than Covington and guys like Crowder? If he packs on 25 pounds he could pretty good.

[smittybanton]

How is Isaac's defense compare to Jackson's? I didn't see too much of Isaac but he seemed pretty good on defense. He said taller and longer than Jackson it seems. Can Isaac become a better defender than Jackson? Does he have a better than average chance to be a better defender than Covington and guys like Crowder? If he packs on 25 pounds he could pretty good.

I guess I don't see Isaac guarding threes or fives at the moment. I see him as a 'pure' four. Whereas I see Jackson as a guy who can defend twos and threes, and not embarrass himself at all against ones and fours. Position versatility is one of the reasons I have Isaac behind Jackson and Tatum.

If Isaac packs 25lbs of muscle without losing agility, he becomes a top flight four/five! He's not as good a ballhandler as Brandon Ingram, but he's is more fluid and handles the rock better than Myles Turner, I think. The versatility of having Embiid, Saric and Isaac would be pretty awesome up front. You could have success playing with any combination of the three.

[Kobblehead]

How is Isaac's defense compare to Jackson's? I didn't see too much of Isaac but he seemed pretty good on defense. He said taller and longer than Jackson it seems. Can Isaac become a better defender than Jackson? Does he have a better than average chance to be a better defender than Covington and guys like Crowder? If he packs on 25 pounds he could pretty good.

Isaac is a good defender, but moreso of the PF spot and not the SG and SF spot. Jackson is a lockdown stud on the perimeter. Isaac won't be that, he'll be a good defender at the 4 with enough switch versatility to not get abused when he gets matched onto SFs.

[smittybanton]

Don't agree with this but I really think Isaac will have the better NBA career. I think the Isaac/Ingram comps are a bit lazy for a number of reasons (one major one is Isaac is already quite heavier physically) and I really hate what's happened to Ingram at the Lakers - I don't think its good for his development to be playing 30+ minutes a night when he's clearly not physically ready for it.

Its obvious the Kevin Durant comps Ingram was getting last year look now pretty stupid, but there's a reason he was getting them - he had a super year as a freshman.

What made Ingram so special to me was his ability to handle the rock for someone so long and sleight and young. Agreed, the KD comparisons were very lazy, stemming from his hot 3pt shooting coming out the gate. For me the comparison was Paul George, and I still think he gets there. There's only so much you can do on offense if you can't put the ball on the floor. Isaac has a high floor, and I think he and Saric would be a great tandem at the four. But I don't see Isaac being better than Ingram over the long haul because of ballhandling. Not impossible, of course. Bacon and Mann and Mayes are very aggressive, and Leonard Hamilton seemed to suggest that Isaac had game he wasn't showing, out of deference to older players. Considering all the cap space we have to get guards, I would not mind at all taking Isaac at #5.

As far as tools and skills are concerned, Isaac is one of the best 4 players in this draft. His only issues are his future physical development and whether he has the alpha make-up that the very good players generally have. If he's weak and doesn't have the 'make-up', he could end up struggling early and glued to the bench like Brendan Wright or even Noah Vonleh.

I don't disagree much. But just to nitpick, I would put Isaac in the top three as far as tools (length, wingspan). Yet, I would put him around six when it comes to skills. To me, DSJ is probably the most skilled player in the draft, but for his extremely serious injury history and uneven performance this past year.

Also nitpicking, I think his floor is higher than Vonleh's and Wright's. I never liked Vonleh one bit. Markkanen reminds me of him, moreso than Isaac. Checks all the boxes, but watch them play and their stiffness becomes evident. So often you play with guys and look at them like, why are you tall? More fluid athlete than Vonleh and much better shooter than Wright.

I think Isaac's floor is the Sixers #7 pick in the 1997 Draft: Tim Thomas. Thirteen year career.

With Ben Simmons at the point, it would'nt even be so bad if Isaac never gains much weight and becomes Channing Frye.

[76ciology]

My believe is Isaac will be the better defender.
Isaac is likely to be the better team defender while JJ is likely to be the better individual defender.

Defense between two is minimal. Biggest difference is JJ has superior playmaking ability than Isaac. But then between a shooter and a poor shooter, I'd take my chances on a shooter to be better in creating in the NBA. It's just Isaac's shooting is a mystery and is very likely to be just average for now.