The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part II

[76ciology]

I feel like it’s unfair for Ben to be compared to the GOAT in LeBron or a top 5 player of all time in Magic. It’s more of media trying to hype him up and making him a must see TV.

Everyone’s got their own time. Maybe Ben turns out to be better than Bron when he’s 30. Let’s just appreciate him for what he is right now

[LloydFree]

Odom was a great prospect.

The difference was that Lamar was quick for a 6'10" guy, Ben is one of the quickest guys in the league period. More stuff has become apparent since Ben has come into the league (his commitment on defense, his general mentality) but I think that was the biggest thing people were underrating when that comparison was being made.

Just to add, I dont think the vision is even close from a passing perspective. Ben can run an offense which is obvious now, but many of us thought he was used poorly at LSU where he was used down low in majority of their offensive sets, not really maxmizing his potential/creativity at the collegiate level.

Its obvious to everyone now that Ben has the gift of rare vision, but many forecasted this from his high school years and glimpses in college. Odom could be used as a point forward here and there. Thats the biggest difference imo.

To me the floor was odom the ceiling was magic.

I give Brown a lot of credit for giving the keys to Ben right away. It's one thing to yell about it on a message board, it's another to implement it and hand your offense to a rookie that missed a year and didn't play the position in college, in a year where you finally have talent and everyone is expecting you to prove your worthiness as a coach. There were certainly people around the league that thought it was the wrong move and were ready to call him out if it went poorly. Instead it's arguably been Brett's best tactical decision to date.

Yep. Brown doesn't get enough credit for having the guts to run Simmons at PG. I had many arguments with friends, when Simmons was at LSU regarding how he would be used in the NBA. I didn't think there was a coach in the league that would allow him to run point. I thought they'd make him a PF and hide all of his strengths. At PF, he's not a stretch and he's not a rim protector. Brett Brown deserves all the credit in the world for not messing this guy up.

[Ericb5]

Just to add, I dont think the vision is even close from a passing perspective. Ben can run an offense which is obvious now, but many of us thought he was used poorly at LSU where he was used down low in majority of their offensive sets, not really maxmizing his potential/creativity at the collegiate level.

Its obvious to everyone now that Ben has the gift of rare vision, but many forecasted this from his high school years and glimpses in college. Odom could be used as a point forward here and there. Thats the biggest difference imo.

To me the floor was odom the ceiling was magic.

I give Brown a lot of credit for giving the keys to Ben right away. It's one thing to yell about it on a message board, it's another to implement it and hand your offense to a rookie that missed a year and didn't play the position in college, in a year where you finally have talent and everyone is expecting you to prove your worthiness as a coach. There were certainly people around the league that thought it was the wrong move and were ready to call him out if it went poorly. Instead it's arguably been Brett's best tactical decision to date.

Yep. Brown doesn't get enough credit for having the guts to run Simmons at PG. I had many arguments with friends, when Simmons was at LSU regarding how he would be used in the NBA. I didn't think there was a coach in the league that would allow him to run point. I thought they'd make him a PF and hide all of his strengths. At PF, he's not a stretch and he's not a rim protector. Brett Brown deserves all the credit in the world for not messing this guy up.

I have to admit that I wasn't on board with the Simmons as a point guard experiment until summer league. I remember when someone said that he was a point guard early in his freshman season, and I thought that they were nuts.

[Unbreakable99]

I give Brown a lot of credit for giving the keys to Ben right away. It's one thing to yell about it on a message board, it's another to implement it and hand your offense to a rookie that missed a year and didn't play the position in college, in a year where you finally have talent and everyone is expecting you to prove your worthiness as a coach. There were certainly people around the league that thought it was the wrong move and were ready to call him out if it went poorly. Instead it's arguably been Brett's best tactical decision to date.

Yep. Brown doesn't get enough credit for having the guts to run Simmons at PG. I had many arguments with friends, when Simmons was at LSU regarding how he would be used in the NBA. I didn't think there was a coach in the league that would allow him to run point. I thought they'd make him a PF and hide all of his strengths. At PF, he's not a stretch and he's not a rim protector. Brett Brown deserves all the credit in the world for not messing this guy up.

I have to admit that I wasn't on board with the Simmons as a point guard experiment until summer league. I remember when someone said that he was a point guard early in his freshman season, and I thought that they were nuts.

I was on board with Sinmons being a PG from day one. It was clear he was better with the ball in his hands and running the offense and not as good off the ball. I still remember people saying Simmons wasn’t a point guard but he’s a point forward only because he’s 6’10. Some people still say he’s a point forward. I will never understand that. People make it seem like if you play point over a certain height like 6’5 then you can’t be called a PG. PG is not defined by height. If you play point and run the team then you’re the point guard. I don’t care if you’re taller than Embiid. If there was a 7’5 player who played just like Simmons he would be called a point guard too.

[LloydFree]

Simmons will never know how much he owes Brown for letting him loose at PG. Lamar Odom didn't have that kind of coach, coming into the league. Simmons playing PG will make him a SuperMax player rather than the slightly above average starter money that he would get, trying to be Draymond Green.

[Unbreakable99]

I think with the success of Simmons more teams are seeing how good he is and using their 6’8 and 6’9 forwards as the point guard. The Lakers used Ingram as the PG and he excelled while Ball was out. I read the Celtics let Tatum play some PG the last game. There’s no more height requirement that if you are taller than 6’6 then you can’t run the point lol.

[Kobblehead]

Simmons isn't an example of a successful trend you can replicate. He's a generational talent with elite distributing instincts.

Tatum and Ingram can handle the ball and create, but they can't run and offense and facilitate.

The only F sized player on the horizon that can run an offense like Simmons is Doncic.

[LloydFree]

I think with the success of Simmons more teams are seeing how good he is and using their 6’8 and 6’9 forwards as the point guard. The Lakers used Ingram as the PG and he excelled whole Ball was out. I read the Celtics let Tatum play some PG the last game. There’s no more height requirement that if you are taller than 6’6 then you can’t run the point lol.

Bucks fans (and podcast guys) hate Jason Kidd, but they should thank him for accelerating Giannis' skill development and learning curve by having the foresight to play him at PG early on.

[Chris76]

I think with the success of Simmons more teams are seeing how good he is and using their 6’8 and 6’9 forwards as the point guard. The Lakers used Ingram as the PG and he excelled whole Ball was out. I read the Celtics let Tatum play some PG the last game. There’s no more height requirement that if you are taller than 6’6 then you can’t run the point lol.

Good points, Simmons creates mismatches that teams have to consider adjustments. Eventually, he will get comfortable hitting quick pull-ups around 15 ft. I'd like to see him go straight up or draw contact. He fades away and makes the shot more difficult.

Can't wait to see Simmons and Fultz become better shooters. Their fit seems awkward on offense, but defense could be elite.

[BenSimmonsStan]

Simmons isn't an example of a successful trend you can replicate. He's a generational talent with elite distributing instincts.

Tatum and Ingram can handle the ball and create, but they can't run and offense and facilitate.

The only F sized player on the horizon that can run an offense like Simmons is Doncic.

Although you may be right in Simmons being someone you can't replicate, I do believe that what comes with Simmons ascension is another change in the game. It's safe to say Curry and Harden revolutionized the NBA with their play and threw the favor into advanced offensive statistics.

Where Ben changes all this is that eventually he'll tip the balance to favor advanced defensive metrics. When we start transitioning from the LeBron era to the Simmons era, the league will be more about great 2 way players on every position. And teams that employ offensive superstars who struggle with defense will quickly get ran off the court every game they play ahead of the curve teams who have average-great 2 way players 1-5, which will also mean great team basketball; just like the great, if not greatest team basketball we're seeing from Philly.

[Ericb5]

Simmons will never know how much he owes Brown for letting him loose at PG. Lamar Odom didn't have that kind of coach, coming into the league. Simmons playing PG will make him a SuperMax player rather than the slightly above average starter money that he would get, trying to be Draymond Green.

I don’t think that Lamar Odom was a point guard though regardless of whether or not he was allowed to try to be one. He was a point guard in the way that Giannis is, in that they are big long guys with passing and dribbling chops. They aren’t facilitators by nature though, and Simmons is.

Iverson could pass and dribble well enough to be a point guard too, but he wasn’t a facilitator either.




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[Ericb5]

Simmons isn't an example of a successful trend you can replicate. He's a generational talent with elite distributing instincts.

Tatum and Ingram can handle the ball and create, but they can't run and offense and facilitate.

The only F sized player on the horizon that can run an offense like Simmons is Doncic.

Although you may be right in Simmons being someone you can't replicate, I do believe that what comes with Simmons ascension is another change in the game. It's safe to say Curry and Harden revolutionized the NBA with their play and threw the favor into advanced offensive statistics.

Where Ben changes all this is that eventually he'll tip the balance to favor advanced defensive metrics. When we start transitioning from the LeBron era to the Simmons era, the league will be more about great 2 way players on every position. And teams that employ offensive superstars who struggle with defense will quickly get ran off the court every game they play ahead of the curve teams who have average-great 2 way players 1-5, which will also mean great team basketball; just like the great, if not greatest team basketball we're seeing from Philly.

Having great two way stars isn’t a philosophy or a game plan. Everyone wants to find those guys.

There simply aren’t a lot of Ben Simmons’ around, just like trying to replicate Iverson or Curry isn’t so easy either.


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[LloydFree]

Simmons will never know how much he owes Brown for letting him loose at PG. Lamar Odom didn't have that kind of coach, coming into the league. Simmons playing PG will make him a SuperMax player rather than the slightly above average starter money that he would get, trying to be Draymond Green.

I don’t think that Lamar Odom was a point guard though regardless of whether or not he was allowed to try to be one. He was a point guard in the way that Giannis is, in that they are big long guys with passing and dribbling chops. They aren’t facilitators by nature though, and Simmons is.

Iverson could pass and dribble well enough to be a point guard too, but he wasn’t a facilitator either.

Lamar Odom was more of a PG in HS and at Rhode Island than Ben Simmons was at Montverde and in college. When he got to the NBA they made Odom a PF and he became exactly what I expected and feared would happen to Simmons. They didn't cultivate his strengths and he became a support player.

[Unbreakable99]

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[LloydFree]

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I'm surprised to see Jon Collins so high up on the defense list. He doesn't look like a good defender on eye test. I'm a big fan of Adebayo though. Calipari would have him step out and guard PG's when he needed to slow the other team.

[Cheatergriffin]

Per 36 past 10 games--15.3ppg, 11.7reb, 13.7 assists--ben Simmons

[Ericb5]

Simmons will never know how much he owes Brown for letting him loose at PG. Lamar Odom didn't have that kind of coach, coming into the league. Simmons playing PG will make him a SuperMax player rather than the slightly above average starter money that he would get, trying to be Draymond Green.

I don’t think that Lamar Odom was a point guard though regardless of whether or not he was allowed to try to be one. He was a point guard in the way that Giannis is, in that they are big long guys with passing and dribbling chops. They aren’t facilitators by nature though, and Simmons is.

Iverson could pass and dribble well enough to be a point guard too, but he wasn’t a facilitator either.

Lamar Odom was more of a PG in HS and at Rhode Island than Ben Simmons was at Montverde and in college. When he got to the NBA they made Odom a PF and he became exactly what I expected and feared would happen to Simmons. They didn't cultivate his strengths and he became a support player.

That may be true about their highschool games, but I don't think that you could have held back Simmons from showing his gifts. Brown deserves credit for giving him the ball, but I think that someone would have eventually given him the ball.

Odom was definitely an uber talent though that could have been even better than he was. His head wasn't screwed on straight.

Simmons has his head screwed on straight, but on top of that he seems to have the Lebron/Kobe like training machine gene, and that is something that Odom didn't have either. Man, if Iverson had that Kobe training gene he wold have won titles.

[Unbreakable99]

I do think this is not enough of a sample size and we have played some bad teams but I’d rather have this stat that something worse.

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[XDevilBoiX]

I do think this is not enough of a sample size and we have played some bad teams but I’d rather have this stat that something worse.

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We have a better bench with Marco and Ersan. We wouldn’t be where we at without them on the team.

[cksdayoff]

ersan is an underrated defender too