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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#41 » by eyeatoma » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:00 am

Foshan wrote:I remember seeing a clip of Greek freak before a game, his mentality: Dunk everything.

I would love for Ben to come out with that mindset tonight.


Although Simmons is very athletic Freak is on a whole other planet.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#42 » by VDT » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:11 am

Foshan wrote:I remember seeing a clip of Greek freak before a game, his mentality: Dunk everything.

I would love for Ben to come out with that mindset tonight.



Yes people like to complain about his jumper a lot but in fact the first thing he needs to try to improve (and should have done already) is his finishing at the rim. He either doesnt try to challenge the defense at the rim or when he does he tends to move away from the rim instead of moving to the rim and initiating contact. He also needs to be able to finish with his left which he seems incapable of doing at the moment.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#43 » by phillynative » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:25 am

VDT wrote:
Foshan wrote:I remember seeing a clip of Greek freak before a game, his mentality: Dunk everything.

I would love for Ben to come out with that mindset tonight.



Yes people like to complain about his jumper a lot but in fact the first thing he needs to try to improve (and should have done already) is his finishing at the rim. He either doesnt try to challenge the defense at the rim or when he does he tends to move away from the rim instead of moving to the rim and initiating contact. He also needs to be able to finish with his left which he seems incapable of doing at the moment.


Ben just doesn't have the frame , strength or length to consistently impose his will in the paint without having the touch
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#44 » by Bum Adebayo » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am

phillynative wrote:
VDT wrote:
Foshan wrote:I remember seeing a clip of Greek freak before a game, his mentality: Dunk everything.

I would love for Ben to come out with that mindset tonight.



Yes people like to complain about his jumper a lot but in fact the first thing he needs to try to improve (and should have done already) is his finishing at the rim. He either doesnt try to challenge the defense at the rim or when he does he tends to move away from the rim instead of moving to the rim and initiating contact. He also needs to be able to finish with his left which he seems incapable of doing at the moment.


Ben just doesn't have the frame , strength or length to consistently impose his will in the paint without having the touch


The frame is there, his body is absolutely elite in terms of strength or the possibility to add more pounds. The issues I see are first and foremost that he is a bit soft when going up and doesn't have a killer mentality to attack and destroy his defender like a Giannis. The length is second, just nowhere near as long as Giannis. But I watch Zion and how he scores and I think when you have a great combination of strength and explosiveness, you create more separation between your defender with his frame colliding with defender with force and it is not as much of an issue. But yeah, then there is the touch.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#45 » by phillynative » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:53 am

Bum Adebayo wrote:
phillynative wrote:
VDT wrote:

Yes people like to complain about his jumper a lot but in fact the first thing he needs to try to improve (and should have done already) is his finishing at the rim. He either doesnt try to challenge the defense at the rim or when he does he tends to move away from the rim instead of moving to the rim and initiating contact. He also needs to be able to finish with his left which he seems incapable of doing at the moment.


Ben just doesn't have the frame , strength or length to consistently impose his will in the paint without having the touch


The frame is there, his body is absolutely elite in terms of strength or the possibility to add more pounds. The issues I see are first and foremost that he is a bit soft when going up and doesn't have a killer mentality to attack and destroy his defender like a Giannis. The length is second, just nowhere near as long as Giannis. But I watch Zion and how he scores and I think when you have a great combination of strength and explosiveness, you create more separation between your defender with his frame colliding with defender with force and it is not as much of an issue. But yeah, then there is the touch.


Nope ben has a ok frame but it doesnt compare to that length and shoulder of giannis or the pure bulk and strength of a zion.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#46 » by VDT » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:02 pm

phillynative wrote:
VDT wrote:
Foshan wrote:I remember seeing a clip of Greek freak before a game, his mentality: Dunk everything.

I would love for Ben to come out with that mindset tonight.



Yes people like to complain about his jumper a lot but in fact the first thing he needs to try to improve (and should have done already) is his finishing at the rim. He either doesnt try to challenge the defense at the rim or when he does he tends to move away from the rim instead of moving to the rim and initiating contact. He also needs to be able to finish with his left which he seems incapable of doing at the moment.


Ben just doesn't have the frame , strength or length to consistently impose his will in the paint without having the touch


It is true that he is not the physical specimen that Lebron , Giannis or Shaq are/were so he is not going to be able to base his entire game on being dominant around the rim. Still he has room for improvement and it is probably the part of his game that can be more readily improved, compared to shooting that will take years if ever. It will help the team immediately and increase his trade value in case of a trade.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#47 » by Stribor » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:07 pm

He needs to score in high enogh percentage, and in all honesty I do not care how. But I also do not see improvement close or far from the basket.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#48 » by phillynative » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:39 pm

Ben is about 6'9 to 6'10 230 with a average wingspan at about 6'11 to 7ft . Not great size for a Pf but excellent size for a point forward. That's what I always saw him as anyway. He also has the quickness and strength to defend 1-4. What hurts him is he had no identity offensively other than being a big guy who can handle and distribute the ball . The best guards in this league are the best because other than playmaking they are a scoring threat and defenses have to account for. Ben at this stage is not now that teams have figured him out.
The high ceiling is definitely there if he's willing to put in the work. Have to get in that gym and be great
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#49 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:56 pm

Jams60 wrote:Neither am I but I can imagine a time when it is workable. I just can’t imagine a time when someone with the injury history of Embiid is capable of being healthy 2 or 3 years in a row.

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#50 » by Kobblehead » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:28 pm

Lacks the length of Giannis and he lacks the strength and pure mass of Blake Griffin. He's caught in the tough middle of just being a 235 pounder with t-rex arms. So him trying to physically dominate people is harder for him than those two.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#51 » by phillynative » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:53 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Lacks the length of Giannis and he lacks the strength and pure mass of Blake Griffin. He's caught in the tough middle of just being a 235 pounder with t-rex arms. So him trying to physically dominate people is harder for him than those two.


Exactly I dont think people understand this
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#52 » by VDT » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:58 pm

I am thinking that we shouldnt extend him this summer, especially if he keeps playing like that. He should be challenged to come back better next year and earn his max contract.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#53 » by Mik317 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:59 pm

PhillyPhilly wrote:BEN IS 22 YEARS OLD AND HAS WON THE ROY AND IS AN ALL-STAR ALREADY IN HIS FIRST TWO YEARS. Folks really are acting like trading Ben is somehow gonna transform us into golden state overnight..smh. Our best five have barely played 11 games together, ELEVEN GAMES, and yet impatient fans are begging to tear it down in favour of a pipe dream. It makes no sense whatsoever.


true.

I will openly admit that a good % of my angst is purely reactionary and If I were to really sit on it...i probably wouldn't trade Ben either. I have said it a lot but the list of guys that trading him for would be a good move now AND more importantly later is very very small. The one name often brought up is Lillard. He's exactly what we need...hovever..he's older, not great defensively and Portland probably isn't going to trade him for Ben, the flight risk. So yeah. My Morant trade is next in line but I cannot **** on Ben for his flaws and then trade him for another PG in training either lol. So yeah its not realistic (especially those fools who think any team that wins the lottery would trade us Zion for him lol).

But man it is frustrating as hell that we are going through this again...Ben's stubbornness to even attempt shots is actively holding this team back. It is the thing that will continue to kill this team until he finds a way to not be useless off ball and in the half court. Yeah he's 22 and its still super early. But so far nothing he has done has shown even the willingness to change that....and thus wondering about selling early is prone to pop up. Fair, smart, realistic or not.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#54 » by Foshan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:13 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Lacks the length of Giannis and he lacks the strength and pure mass of Blake Griffin. He's caught in the tough middle of just being a 235 pounder with t-rex arms. So him trying to physically dominate people is harder for him than those two.

Once J.Allen sits down, Brooklyn has nobody big down low. I guess taht was more what i was thinking, in this series he could totally have that mentality.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#55 » by Bum Adebayo » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:57 pm

No way Simmons is only 235lbs, he is at least at 250lbs.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#56 » by Kobblehead » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:11 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:No way Simmons is only 235lbs, he is at least at 250lbs.

Eh, his playing weight appears to be lower than that. Maybe he weighs 250 in the summer, but he looks lean during the season.

That's the problem. If you're going to be a lean guy, you gotta be long. The short armed guys typically are built like bulls with a power base. See Blake Griffin, Julius Randle and Zion Williamson. Ben is a short-armed guy that has nowhere near the power base and pure strength of those power players. Ben is built more like the long lean guys. Except he has no length.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#57 » by Negrodamus » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:23 pm

Every time I see a condemnation of Ben Simmons and a request to be trade, I think back to how absurd my evaluation of Ben was treated during the predraft process where I said he could be a rich man's Boris Diaw, a nice player but not the number 1 pick.

Now I'm completely on board with taking the wait and see approach with him because he's 6'11 and moves like a guard. It would have to be for an all star for me to move him.

The larger issue I have is the front office not having similar foresight on Ben when I said "you have no choice but to build this entire team around him: everyone else on the floor needs to be an above average to excellent shooter". Instead, we trade two above average shooters for a great player who is an average shooter that needs the ball in their hands. Redick has gone cold; so has Tobias. Our other answer for that third shooter is..... Mike Scott? Jonathan Simmons? TJ McConnell? This is a disaster of the front office's (Colangelo AND Brand/Brown) making.

Hating Ben for becoming what he always has been and will continue to be is a very silly approach to me.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#58 » by ProcessDoctor » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:38 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Every time I see a condemnation of Ben Simmons and a request to be trade, I think back to how absurd my evaluation of Ben was treated during the predraft process where I said he could be a rich man's Boris Diaw, a nice player but not the number 1 pick.

Now I'm completely on board with taking the wait and see approach with him because he's 6'11 and moves like a guard. It would have to be for an all star for me to move him.

The larger issue I have is the front office not having similar foresight on Ben when I said "you have no choice but to build this entire team around him: everyone else on the floor needs to be an above average to excellent shooter". Instead, we trade two above average shooters for a great player who is an average shooter that needs the ball in their hands. Redick has gone cold; so has Tobias. Our other answer for that third shooter is..... Mike Scott? Jonathan Simmons? TJ McConnell? This is a disaster of the front office's (Colangelo AND Brand/Brown) making.

Hating Ben for becoming what he always has been and will continue to be is a very silly approach to me.


I don't necessarily think the roster is that far off from what Ben needs. Redick and Harris going cold is pretty typical of any shooter, so we need others who can consistently make plays and get to the rim (i.e. Butler). I just think that anyone else not named Simmons, Embiid, or Butler needs to be a sharpshooter (i.e. NOT TJ McConnell, Jonathan Simmons, or Boban). Something like this next year:

Simmons/Shooter
Danny Green/Redick
Butler/Shooter
Harris/Scott
Embiid/Bolden

No exceptions...it should be a strict rule since we seemingly have no other good choice but to build around the core we have. If we trade Simmons and/or Embiid we probably lose a good amount of value.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#59 » by VDT » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:40 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Every time I see a condemnation of Ben Simmons and a request to be trade, I think back to how absurd my evaluation of Ben was treated during the predraft process where I said he could be a rich man's Boris Diaw, a nice player but not the number 1 pick.

Now I'm completely on board with taking the wait and see approach with him because he's 6'11 and moves like a guard. It would have to be for an all star for me to move him.

The larger issue I have is the front office not having similar foresight on Ben when I said "you have no choice but to build this entire team around him: everyone else on the floor needs to be an above average to excellent shooter". Instead, we trade two above average shooters for a great player who is an average shooter that needs the ball in their hands. Redick has gone cold; so has Tobias. Our other answer for that third shooter is..... Mike Scott? Jonathan Simmons? TJ McConnell? This is a disaster of the front office's (Colangelo AND Brand/Brown) making.

Hating Ben for becoming what he always has been and will continue to be is a very silly approach to me.


I dont disagree but Simmons need to prove first that he is good enough to have the team built around him. Being a non shooter and a timid/opportunistic scorer at the same time will not cut and if he continues like that he will soon find that he will be the guy asked to adjust to someone else's game which will be difficult given his unique talents and flaws.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III 

Post#60 » by Kobblehead » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:46 pm

When we drafted Ben Simmons, I think the fans/organization assumed he'd be our only guy. Okafor was trending major bust and Embiid ever making it on the court was a pipedream. I think everyone involved assumed we'd be a defensive, transition team built around Ben.

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