The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part IV

[downtownpie]

Lately Brown and used Burke alot more and perhaps thats what is going to do more as the season goes on. Simmons plays more 4 which he has been and Burke handles the ball.

[XDevilBoiX]

2nd return for all star voting and Ben is 8th in guards lol
If this doesn’t light a fire in his ass then I don’t know what will.

[Jstock12]

Great opportunity for Ben to shut all the haters up.

[PLO]

Great opportunity for Ben to shut all the haters up.

He was fantastic tonight, beastly performance overall.

[nurseryc]

Simmons was a beast tonight. He has been our best player in our last 4 games. He is playing at an all star level.

[PLO]

Simmons was a beast tonight. He has been our best player in our last 4 games. He is playing at an all star level.

No doubt. Thing is for the rest of the season he has to prove a consistent source of offense in all situations, even if that doesn't mean he is shooting any jumpers or whatever. If he can do that these "trade him for DLo" or whoever (which are pretty absurd trade scenarios for the 76ers) will evaporate very quickly.

[76ciology]

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Nice to see we used the Jrich-Ben 2 man game on two crucial possessions down the stretch. I’d expect this to be a staple of our offense, specially during this stretch without Embiid

[michaelm]

Simmons was a beast tonight. He has been our best player in our last 4 games. He is playing at an all star level.

No doubt. Thing is for the rest of the season he has to prove a consistent source of offense in all situations, even if that doesn't mean he is shooting any jumpers or whatever. If he can do that these "trade him for DLo" or whoever (which are pretty absurd trade scenarios for the 76ers) will evaporate very quickly.

Easy to see why people are both frustrated with his shooting and think he should shoot right handed when you see his touch on those hook shots.

[nurseryc]

Josh Richardson’s statement after today’s win said it all, ‘it’s kinda easy to do it when you got a guy that’s 6 foot 10 that runs like a deer and jumps like he’s a 6 foot guard’.

[51X3RF4N]

Well, what this game showed me is Ben Simmons doesn't fit Joel Embiid long term. Asking a Monster like Embiid to float around the perimeter so that a Beast like Simmons can work in space to get into the paint is backwards.

Either Simmons is a PF who sometimes initiates plays at the top of the key when Joel is out, or Joel is a jump shooting big man who occasionally dominates the paint when Ben is out.

One of the 2 is constantly sacrificing what they do best and being put in a position they are uncomfortable with to appease the other.

I love both of them, but I think you trade whichever one gets you the best overall package in return that allows you to build around the other.

[Tomjas]

Well, what this game showed me is Ben Simmons doesn't fit Joel Embiid long term. Asking a Monster like Embiid to float around the perimeter so that a Beast like Simmons can work in space to get into the paint is backwards.

Either Simmons is a PF who sometimes initiates plays at the top of the key when Joel is out, or Joel is a jump shooting big man who occasionally dominates the paint when Ben is out.

One of the 2 is constantly sacrificing what they do best and being put in a position they are uncomfortable with to appease the other.

I love both of them, but I think you trade whichever one gets you the best overall package in return that allows you to build around the other.

It’s nonsense to suggest that they can’t play together

The issue was, is and will be the complementary pieces AND Joel’s fitness

[Wilfried]

I'm really rooting for him not to be named All star. I can't imagine a better wake-up call. He doesn't listen to his coach or teammates so only thing that can make him realize he should start taking shots from distance.

Him not being an Allstar could be the best thing that happens for our team

[51X3RF4N]

Well, what this game showed me is Ben Simmons doesn't fit Joel Embiid long term. Asking a Monster like Embiid to float around the perimeter so that a Beast like Simmons can work in space to get into the paint is backwards.

Either Simmons is a PF who sometimes initiates plays at the top of the key when Joel is out, or Joel is a jump shooting big man who occasionally dominates the paint when Ben is out.

One of the 2 is constantly sacrificing what they do best and being put in a position they are uncomfortable with to appease the other.

I love both of them, but I think you trade whichever one gets you the best overall package in return that allows you to build around the other.

It’s nonsense to suggest that they can’t play together

The issue was, is and will be the complementary pieces AND Joel’s fitness

Is it really nonsense though? Ben is exclusively taking shots only when in the paint, which is where Embiid should be 85% of the time the Sixers have the ball.

Ben can't run pick and rolls with Embiid from the top of the key, which is a critical aspect in keeping defenses honest.

If you put 3 absolute sharpshooter players around them, you still have an issue of there's only so much room on the court, and specifically in the paint, that you end up stagnant offensively because Ben can't drive if Joel is in the lane, and Joel can't post if Ben's man is in the lane.

Embiid needs to be surrounded by the following:

1 guard who can beat his man off the dribble, while also being able to score from all 3 levels.

1 guard who can hit catch and shoot jump shots with consistency in such a manner that his defender gets yelled at for leaving him to help on defense.

1 wing who can hit catch and shoot jumpers similar to the guard above, but also who is athletic enough to flash to the rim on occasion.

1 forward who can sit in the corner and knock down catch and shoot 3s, but who also knows how to fight down low if necessary.

This gives Joel the space to go post up, and if anybody's man leaves to double team, Joel can kick it out knowing that the defense has to honor the shooters.

Now take Ben Simmons...what does he need? The same as above except the Forward is replaced by a Center who is comfortable and a good enough shooter to run pick and pops from the top of the key. Horford works to a degree in this role.

But when you have them both on the floor at the same time, short of running those pick and rolls inside the paint which sometimes work, you end up with multiple defenders in the paint and no space whatsoever for either of them to consistently be effective.

My ideal players, or similar to these, to put around Embiid:

DLo
CJM
Covington
Tobias
Embiid

Same thing with Ben:

CP3
CJM
Covington
Simmons
KAT

[Eyeamok]

Well, what this game showed me is Ben Simmons doesn't fit Joel Embiid long term. Asking a Monster like Embiid to float around the perimeter so that a Beast like Simmons can work in space to get into the paint is backwards.

Either Simmons is a PF who sometimes initiates plays at the top of the key when Joel is out, or Joel is a jump shooting big man who occasionally dominates the paint when Ben is out.

One of the 2 is constantly sacrificing what they do best and being put in a position they are uncomfortable with to appease the other.

I love both of them, but I think you trade whichever one gets you the best overall package in return that allows you to build around the other.

It’s nonsense to suggest that they can’t play together

The issue was, is and will be the complementary pieces AND Joel’s fitness

Is it really nonsense though? Ben is exclusively taking shots only when in the paint, which is where Embiid should be 85% of the time the Sixers have the ball.

Ben can't run pick and rolls with Embiid from the top of the key, which is a critical aspect in keeping defenses honest.

If you put 3 absolute sharpshooter players around them, you still have an issue of there's only so much room on the court, and specifically in the paint, that you end up stagnant offensively because Ben can't drive if Joel is in the lane, and Joel can't post if Ben's man is in the lane.

Embiid needs to be surrounded by the following:

1 guard who can beat his man off the dribble, while also being able to score from all 3 levels.

1 guard who can hit catch and shoot jump shots with consistency in such a manner that his defender gets yelled at for leaving him to help on defense.

1 wing who can hit catch and shoot jumpers similar to the guard above, but also who is athletic enough to flash to the rim on occasion.

1 forward who can sit in the corner and knock down catch and shoot 3s, but who also knows how to fight down low if necessary.

This gives Joel the space to go post up, and if anybody's man leaves to double team, Joel can kick it out knowing that the defense has to honor the shooters.

Now take Ben Simmons...what does he need? The same as above except the Forward is replaced by a Center who is comfortable and a good enough shooter to run pick and pops from the top of the key. Horford works to a degree in this role.

But when you have them both on the floor at the same time, short of running those pick and rolls inside the paint which sometimes work, you end up with multiple defenders in the paint and no space whatsoever for either of them to consistently be effective.

My ideal players, or similar to these, to put around Embiid:

DLo
CJM
Covington
Tobias
Embiid

Same thing with Ben:

CP3
CJM
Covington
Simmons
KAT

Or Ben could just learn to shoot. A professional basketball player learning to shoot is not a foreign concept.

[Arsenal]

Well, what this game showed me is Ben Simmons doesn't fit Joel Embiid long term. Asking a Monster like Embiid to float around the perimeter so that a Beast like Simmons can work in space to get into the paint is backwards.

Either Simmons is a PF who sometimes initiates plays at the top of the key when Joel is out, or Joel is a jump shooting big man who occasionally dominates the paint when Ben is out.

One of the 2 is constantly sacrificing what they do best and being put in a position they are uncomfortable with to appease the other.

I love both of them, but I think you trade whichever one gets you the best overall package in return that allows you to build around the other.

Nope. Lineups with Ben + Joel have consistently dominated when surrounded by fitting complementary pieces.

The problem is when they play a guy like Horford or another big along with them.

[Kobblehead]

Ben Simmons has been playing really well in January.

21.7 points, 12.3 rebounds, 7.3 assists

It's only three games, but this is the type of production you have to demand out of a guy you used the #1 pick on and paid a max contract to. This is the production he needs to provide playing WITH Embiid for us to become legitimate title contenders.

[76ciology]

Well, what this game showed me is Ben Simmons doesn't fit Joel Embiid long term. Asking a Monster like Embiid to float around the perimeter so that a Beast like Simmons can work in space to get into the paint is backwards.

Either Simmons is a PF who sometimes initiates plays at the top of the key when Joel is out, or Joel is a jump shooting big man who occasionally dominates the paint when Ben is out.

One of the 2 is constantly sacrificing what they do best and being put in a position they are uncomfortable with to appease the other.

I love both of them, but I think you trade whichever one gets you the best overall package in return that allows you to build around the other.

Double edged.

Say Ben can shoot 3s, do you want an offense where we just have a high volume of post plays for Biid? You’ll never beat a good team on a 7 game series with a low post heavy offense, even on a slight mismatch. Smart coaches would work on the math by letting you attack the post while they run a heavy PnR and 3pt offense. The later would win in most games.

Maybe Ben is Biid’s way of changing his game for the better of the team. In today’s game, centers needs to be able to shoot.

Its not like we’re asking Drummond to shoot 3s. Biid has a very high upside as a shooter, im talking about being one of the best shooters at the C position. And one can argue that shooting maybe the key for Biid’s long term health and sustaining DPOY caliber defense.

The key here for me is adjusting. Running less post plays for Biid when Ben is on the court. Then letting Biid run post plays when he is with the second unit.

[76ciology]

Ben Simmons has been playing really well in January.

21.7 points, 12.3 rebounds, 7.3 assists

It's only three games, but this is the type of production you have to demand out of a guy you used the #1 pick on and paid a max contract to. This is the production he needs to provide playing WITH Embiid for us to become legitimate title contenders.

Big difference for me is he playing less PG. Less Eric Snow type plays when he would bring down the ball and wait for Jrich or Tobi running off screens.

He has been playing more of the roll man in PnRs then a pleasant surprise is posting up on mismatches rather than deferring on these opportunities.

[nurseryc]

Ben Simmons has been playing really well in January.

21.7 points, 12.3 rebounds, 7.3 assists

It's only three games, but this is the type of production you have to demand out of a guy you used the #1 pick on and paid a max contract to. This is the production he needs to provide playing WITH Embiid for us to become legitimate title contenders.

Great post. Simmons can very be very underwhelming at times however he seems to have turned a corner and is currently putting together his best run in the NBA

[Chris76]

Ben Simmons has been playing really well in January.

21.7 points, 12.3 rebounds, 7.3 assists

It's only three games, but this is the type of production you have to demand out of a guy you used the #1 pick on and paid a max contract to. This is the production he needs to provide playing WITH Embiid for us to become legitimate title contenders.

Big difference for me is he playing less PG. Less Eric Snow type plays when he would bring down the ball and wait for Jrich or Tobi running off screens.

He has been playing more of the roll man in PnRs then a pleasant surprise is posting up on mismatches rather than deferring on these opportunities.

I liked how Simmons and Horford were more active at crashing the boards. Especially Simmons, he usually has a size mismatch.

I would like to see Simmons and Embiid working together to get good post position somehow. Embiid gets a lot of turnovers starting an iso 20 ft from the basket.