2025 NBA Draft (2)

[ivysixer2000]

I do have to add, the comparisons made for Ace are weird to me. He obviously plays D with the steals and blocks, along with the rebounding. LaVine he is not.

I do think its hilarious that we question the size of Ace, while noone questions Flagg who is the same exact size. Seems like a double standard that is just plain nuts, as they want Flagg at PF but he will be a SF cause of AD. I would question Flagg if I'm going to question Ace in the size area as its only fair. I guess life isn't fair, I know from experience, but this situation really does bother me as Flagg is seen as some golden child while others are seen as just JAGs.

As I have stated many times, I do not see the Spurs taking Harper. They already have 2 bad shooters in their backcourt (Fox, Castle), why do they need a 3rd one? If anything, they need Tre. It would be a crime to have that many bad shooters around Wemby unless Pop thinks its the 2000s. If they do take Harper, I think it will be a horrible move for that franchise. I think they will pick Ace, as that franchise has a history of developing wings.

I will bet that if we end up with Harper, Grimes or McCain would be gone. I hate to see either of them leave, so that would be a sad situation for me, but if it gives us an actual PF, so be it.

A LOT of the Ace slander consists of people who look at one advanced stat like BPM, see that it's relatively low, and go on a negative jihad from there.

To be fair, BPM is a useful tool when combined with the eye test and player archetype. It helps distinguish between empty-calorie stats and real impact, making it a solid way to gauge a player’s true value.

I take it with a grain of salt, it was Rutgers. They must have paid him a fortune to go there.

What disgusts me is the size thing with Ace and Flagg. I guess the golden boy can't do anything wrong, but everyone has to go through the ringer. For that reason, I hope he looks like Christian Laettner out there. I don't think he will, but its a hope as he's getting special treatment from everyone.

I think Harper will be there for us, unless the Spurs trade the pick. It would be really dumb for them to pick Harper.

[Jojothewhale]

I haven't seen a single credible source that says anything but the Spurs are taking Harper.

I'd love to be wrong. But it's a longshot and a half at this point.

[sodmoraes]

Like Black Mage posted in the other draft topic,in my opinion doesnt make sense to not draft Bailey because we want to "maximize this contention window" with Embiid´s timeline. It´s almost malpratice to still think about Embiid, specially jeopardizing our future with the 3rd pick. That ship already sailed, Embiid will never be 100% again. And even if he were, his game is not made to the playoffs( like Harden, he wont get a lot of fouls in the playoffs, so his scoring drops a lot), we already have a lot of evidence to back this up. I love the big fella, but i dont think we should plan our future considering Joel anymore.

Embiid FTA regular season: 10.0 per game

Embiid FTA playoffs: 9.7 per game

In the playoffs, he plays more minutes but takes less shots and at a lower clip than the regular season. That's why his scoring goes from 27.7 per game in the regular season to 24.9 per game in the playoffs.

What evidence are you referring to?

Hum, i thought he got less ft´s in the playoffs, just using the eye test. But his performance seems to drop a lot in the playoffs for me, just going again by the eye test (at least on the offense). Another problem i see is that he´s always banged up on the post season, so i wouldnt bank our future on him anymore, it´s just a slim chance to have him healthy and playing close to his prime after this knee injury.

[ProcessDoctor]

I think we’re going to fill these threads with Ace Bailey chatter and then end up taking VJ at #3 (or trade back). The feeling around the VJ pick will be similar to what people felt when Presti took Westbrook 4th overall.

Also, the more I hear NBA athletes put Ace in the same sentence as Flagg, the more I worry. It seems like they talk about Ace more than Flagg, which is a double red flag. NBA players have historically not been the best talent evaluators.

[Stanford]

I keep thinking I have two notifications

[Negrodamus]

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Statistical comparisons devoid of all context (such as age, teammates, size, position etc.) merely serve to support a predetermined negative agenda.

What do you want to talk about? Decent weather today given it's so close to summer.

How about that Sorber is a better prospect than Queen, especially because he is one year younger (not that you care lol), has much better measurements, superior athleticism, and put up better stats with a worse supporting cast?

Sorber is mocked to go mid to late teens, which is where Queen should be.

I could see the argument for Sorber over Queen. Sorber is a safer bet since he's a way better defender, has an interesting shot profile for a big (like the 73% FT for a big man).

The question is whether you think Sorber has much meat on the bones on offense and if he has the athleticism to defend other larger Cs at the next level. Queen's shortcomings on defense are obvious but he does have good hands (STL% is good for a PF). I think the strength and agility testing is noteworthy but not a total condemnation of his stock (Sorber didn't partake, btw). Queen's future is at PF and he has arguably the most dynamic offensive game in the top of this draft. I value creators of offense for both themselves and others as a superstar trait, so I like Queen better. After watching plenty of games for both along with the statistical evidence, I can see the argument for either, it's really just preference.

See, I can be objective in this conversation even though I've liked Queen more as a prospect. I've had Sorber in my top 10 fairly frequently throughout this conversation. I'm not sure you can show the same objectivity towards Ace since you defend him like he's a family member.

And cut the "age" **** out, I gave you Tatum (19.29 yrs at draft), Brown (19.65), Ingram (18.79), RJ Barrett (19.01) to compare to Ace (18.85) and you just didn't like it so you focused on the older guys to disprove my point. Your arguments have been dishonest and largely strawmen which has made this irritating. The narrative that I have some kind of vendetta against Ace is so remarkably stupid and lacking of reading comprehension that I really should take my own advice and stop engaging.

[76ciology]

A LOT of the Ace slander consists of people who look at one advanced stat like BPM, see that it's relatively low, and go on a negative jihad from there.

To be fair, BPM is a useful tool when combined with the eye test and player archetype. It helps distinguish between empty-calorie stats and real impact, making it a solid way to gauge a player’s true value.

I take it with a grain of salt, it was Rutgers. They must have paid him a fortune to go there.

If Rutgers’ system is the issue, then why are Harper’s numbers so much better, despite both playing in the same environment?

For example, Rutgers posts a 118 offensive rating with Harper on the floor, but only 108 with Bailey.

[Sixersftw]

I keep thinking I have two notifications

Textbook overthinking.

[Stanford]

I have "BPM" muted so I don't even see those posts. I don't even consider your opinion if I see basketball reference in your browser history.

[ivysixer2000]

I think we’re going to fill these threads with Ace Bailey chatter and then end up taking VJ at #3 (or trade back). The feeling around the VJ pick will be similar to what people felt when Presti took Westbrook 4th overall.

Also, the more I hear NBA athletes put Ace in the same sentence as Flagg, the more I worry. It seems like they talk about Ace more than Flagg, which is a double red flag. NBA players have historically not been the best talent evaluators.

I just doubt that we take VJ cause of Morey's recent history of wanting shooters. There is an exception though, when he traded for Westbrook back in the day which VJ does compare to so it should be interesting.

Flagg will be good, but he is overrated for obvious reasons.

[Negrodamus]

I have "BPM" muted so I don't even see those posts. I don't even consider your opinion if I see basketball reference in your browser history.

Conversely, I get notifications of anyone who has looked at a prospects MaxPreps page.

[ivysixer2000]

To be fair, BPM is a useful tool when combined with the eye test and player archetype. It helps distinguish between empty-calorie stats and real impact, making it a solid way to gauge a player’s true value.

I take it with a grain of salt, it was Rutgers. They must have paid him a fortune to go there.

If Rutgers’ system is the issue, then why are Harper’s numbers so much better, despite both playing in the same environment?

For example, Rutgers posts a 118 offensive rating with Harper on the floor, but only 108 with Bailey.

I'm good, not going to dive into this with you as they are totally different types of bball players.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

If you're someone who puts a ton of value in that 90+ HS FT%, you should really put that in as a question to a podcast with access to data services. PHLY for example I'm sure does. You'll probably get an answer with a number.

Well I’m certainly not allowed to take the 69% he just did for an entire college season at face value. Tis but a fluke!

You're borderline acting like a jerk at this point. There's no need for you to try and convince us. Maybe get Morey's contact info and message him. Most of us are just happy to have kept the pick. Before you go throwing a Bailey insult my way, let me be clear that I like Johnson and Edgecombe just as much as I like Bailey.

[Sixersftw]

I think we’re going to fill these threads with Ace Bailey chatter and then end up taking VJ at #3 (or trade back). The feeling around the VJ pick will be similar to what people felt when Presti took Westbrook 4th overall.

Also, the more I hear NBA athletes put Ace in the same sentence as Flagg, the more I worry. It seems like they talk about Ace more than Flagg, which is a double red flag. NBA players have historically not been the best talent evaluators.

Do you mean in terms of drafting him over Love or Gordon or someone else? If so, IDK. I feel like that draft had so many "can't miss" prospects. Obviously that's never completely true but that's how I felt at the time. This one feels like we just missed the "can't miss" cut and VJ, Ace, Tre etc. are kinda in that third tier grab bag. I'm not really in love with any prospect so on Draft night I won't have any strong feeling toward the prospect itself unless something very strange happens and we don't come away with one of the usual suspects.

Ace is definitely in the "bucket getter" category that NBA players love.

[ivysixer2000]

I think we’re going to fill these threads with Ace Bailey chatter and then end up taking VJ at #3 (or trade back). The feeling around the VJ pick will be similar to what people felt when Presti took Westbrook 4th overall.

Also, the more I hear NBA athletes put Ace in the same sentence as Flagg, the more I worry. It seems like they talk about Ace more than Flagg, which is a double red flag. NBA players have historically not been the best talent evaluators.

Ace is definitely in the "bucket getter" category that NBA players love.

I totally agree with this, when guys play against you and you know you defended as well as you could and he still makes the shot...its impressive to NBA players. Not sure Flagg can do that.

[Negrodamus]

If you're someone who puts a ton of value in that 90+ HS FT%, you should really put that in as a question to a podcast with access to data services. PHLY for example I'm sure does. You'll probably get an answer with a number.

Well I’m certainly not allowed to take the 69% he just did for an entire college season at face value. Tis but a fluke!

You're borderline acting like a jerk at this point. There's no need for you to try and convince us. Maybe get Morey's contact info and message him. Most of us are just happy to have kept the pick. Before you go throwing a Bailey insult my way, let me be clear that I like Johnson and Edgecombe just as much as I like Bailey.

Sad to see one of the best posters on the board come down with a turrible case of ADS (Ace Derangement Syndrome)!

unfortunately, unless afflicted by ADS!

especially because he is one year younger (not that you care lol)

You missed the "ish!" See, Negro was squinting really hard to drive home his narrative which is how Maxey is a wing"ish."

If everyone's on board with it, I'm all for ribbing each other, but with all due respect, give me a Fing break calling me a "borderline jerk". I haven't called anyone anything this entire discussion while everyone else is frothing at the mouth at any statistics I post being critical of Ace.

[Mik317]

yall wouldn't have survived the Thad vs Al Thorton days

[Negrodamus]

yall wouldn't have survived the Thad vs Al Thorton days

I was a big Al Thornton guy.

But this does seem to happen every time we have a top 10 pick. We can never just get a Cooper Flagg situation in the draft.

[sodmoraes]

If we got the first pick i think we would still have some guys thinking we should trade down to get some picks and a advanced stats darling

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[Stanford]

Al Thornton won me like 5 fantasy leagues that one year.