The Sixerfan1976 Off-Season Thread (Update: Page 61)

[76ciology]

I think Kaman's a better fit on our team than Iggy.

First, we need a center more than a SF.

Second, Kaman's give us a much better position to lure 2 max FAs in the summer of 2013. (FAs like Bynum, CP3, Deron, Josh Smith and Dwight)

Third, I think we're in a much greater shape to compete with a line-up of..

Jrue/Lou Williams
Turner/Jodie Meeks
Thad /Andres Nocioni
EB42/Speights
Kaman/Hawes

Than a..

Jrue/Lou Williams
Turner/Jodie Meeks
Iguodala/Thaddeus Young
EB42/Mareese Speights
Hawes/Jason Smith

[76ciology]

Clipper fan here.

After reading all of these comments, I can tell you Clips will not include Kaman in a deal for Deng or Iggy. Jordan could probably be had for Iggy, I'm not sure for Deng. But considering how SF-starved the Clips are, they might have to go that route. Al-Farouq Aminu just doesn't look ready to start.

Ok, I'm also OK for a TPE+Jordan for Iggy.

[radrmd216]

ChuckS, I've seen Logan's Run.

Kaman isn't that old, but he is too old for this team. Kaman would be the type of guy the Sixers would get to put along side Iggy. the move still doesn't make the Sixers a title contender, so at that point why not just keep iggy or make a different trade.

Jrue (20), Turner (21), Thad (22), Speights (23 in a month), Hawes (22), and Lou (23).

Iggy's age is borderline not good fit with this team becuase we know the Sixers won't compete the next say 4-5 years. I would say if that group above is still here they will start playing good basketball in about 3-4 years. In 4 years Iggy will need to be re-signed and he will be 30. kaman would be 32 at that point. Iggy is good, but I'm not sure how well his game will be when age and minutes start to take their toll.

Iggy cannot get a superstar player in a trade. It would be best to move him for a promising young player, if you want to move him at all.

[corwin]

Can't see Dallas as a fit, but Jordan, Gibson is worth considering...an additional pick makes it real interesting.

Would the Sixers traxe a future #1 for Mullens or Koufos?? They still need to develop further, but showed some signs in Orlando.

Agree on the comments regarding Monroe on another post...still a rookie, but looked pretty good in the game I saw. Didn't see Cousins yet.

Mullens seems to like to play outside. I don't know if he can develop the ability to play on the block but I don't think another finesse big guy is what is needed. Hawes already has that spot locked up. Same with Koufos. I see a younger version of Okur in him. I actually see Fesenko as more of an inside type of player. I'm sure most of the posters here remember him as the #2 NY pick that we traded down for the rights to Herbert Hill (to repay Utah for getting us under the LT the year before).

[corwin]

Clipper fan here.

After reading all of these comments, I can tell you Clips will not include Kaman in a deal for Deng or Iggy. Jordan could probably be had for Iggy, I'm not sure for Deng. But considering how SF-starved the Clips are, they might have to go that route. Al-Farouq Aminu just doesn't look ready to start.

Thanks. Sometimes you just have to apply a little logic to these trades. The Clips look like a team ready to take their shot this year. Looking at their roster they need a SF. Iggy seems to be the best guy out there & is from the West Coast to begin with. Jordan is a developmental big for the Clips & if he has potential, he is the type of player we are trying to acquire. However, IMO he would not be enough. A 3-way trade netting Jordan & Gibson seems like fair value. A 2-way trade with the Clips is going to need to involve something else.

[radrmd216]

Iggy would such a good fit as the #3 option on a that had a very good big. I just don't think long term he can really be a great fit with the Sixers, since the possible two best players in a few years (Jrue and Turner) are guards.

I think there are two realistic ways to get a very good big or a big with a lot of potential. Either trade Iggy and pieces or get a big as a top lottery pick. I think if the Sixers trade Iggy they can get a top lottery pick in '11 without not tanking and then building for the playoffs possible in 2012 (if there is no lockout).

[sixerfan1976]

been alot of player movement in the league..very active month of july so far..wish we were involved more. guess you dont want to make a move for the sake of making a move tho:)

[34Charles]

If Dallas is really interested and strikes out on getting Jefferson......how bout Iggy and Brand to Dallas for Caron Butler and Erik Dampier?????

[ChuckS]

Jrue (20), Turner (21), Thad (22), Speights (23 in a month), Hawes (22), and Lou (23).

We obviously have irreconcilable differences. You believe that the above, with a few other draft choices, will grow together into a championship prime. I do not, or at best am doubtful.

You do not care if we suck for five years more until that happens. I do. In fact you would prefer it so that we can get even more young players, the majority of whom history suggests will blossom into mediocrity.

A number of analysts believe that the prime years for an NBA player are between 26 and 32. So it appears we ARE "talking" about five years. I just do not see championship quality in that group, none of whom, yet, even made top five in their rookie classes.

I grew up being brainwashed into believing that one (at least) tried to win every game. In the year of the Dinosaur, this was done by playing your best players while developing replacements, and definitely not by getting rid of the more elite so that any who could not beat them out could play immediately, ready or not. To compete at the highest level required a substantial core of players in their prime. I believe the Spurs, Lakers, and Celtics, have proven that that is still the reality.

I, of course, will not convince you, and likely vice versa. You can be encouraged that a "vocal" number on the board think you are correct. I must find solace in the hope that the vast majority of paying fans seem to disagree, based on last year's attendance. But more so by my possibly naive belief that Collins was hired to see that the sucking ends now. It seems to me that if management wanted continued poor play and losing, they would have kept Jordan.

[danzou]

Clipper fan here.

After reading all of these comments, I can tell you Clips will not include Kaman in a deal for Deng or Iggy. Jordan could probably be had for Iggy, I'm not sure for Deng. But considering how SF-starved the Clips are, they might have to go that route. Al-Farouq Aminu just doesn't look ready to start.

Deng could definitely be had for Iggy. The insider stated that the Sixers turned down a Deng/GIbson/Pick deal for Iggy+another player (possibly)

[sixerfan1976]

yeah its really because we do not want deng.

I am not convinced that Thad can play the 3 so maybe they have thoughts Nocioni can be the #3 for now. I dont know.

I am surprised I am not hearing of more interest in Thad because he is really the part that doesnt make sense right now on this team.

[tk76]

Jrue (20), Turner (21), Thad (22), Speights (23 in a month), Hawes (22), and Lou (23).

We obviously have irreconcilable differences. You believe that the above, with a few other draft choices, will grow together into a championship prime. I do not, or at best am doubtful.

You do not care if we suck for five years more until that happens. I do. In fact you would prefer it so that we can get even more young players, the majority of whom history suggests will blossom into mediocrity.

A number of analysts believe that the prime years for an NBA player are between 26 and 32. So it appears we ARE "talking" about five years. I just do not see championship quality in that group, none of whom, yet, even made top five in their rookie classes.

I grew up being brainwashed into believing that one (at least) tried to win every game. In the year of the Dinosaur, this was done by playing your best players while developing replacements, and definitely not by getting rid of the more elite so that any who could not beat them out could play immediately, ready or not. To compete at the highest level required a substantial core of players in their prime. I believe the Spurs, Lakers, and Celtics, have proven that that is still the reality.

ChuckS- "back in the year of the dinosaur" the Sixers were built around superstars like Wilt, Dr. J, Moses and Barkley. When they did not have superstars they were horrible (9-73) until they acquired new superstars. The Spurs, Lakers and Celtics have Superstars that were all lottery picks (and Kobe ONLY dropped to 13 because his agent told teams he would not play for them and would force a trade.)

While i agree that this current under 24 young core lacks future HOF talent... I don't see how adding older non-superstars puts the team in any better circumstance. And aspiring to be a 45 win team without superstars pretty much ensures that you will never contend. So they need to get superstars either through trades or the draft. But getting more vets just to be more competitive gets you nowhere.

[Skates]

yeah its really because we do not want deng.

I am not convinced that Thad can play the 3 so maybe they have thoughts Nocioni can be the #3 for now. I dont know.

I am surprised I am not hearing of more interest in Thad because he is really the part that doesnt make sense right now on this team.

Given his low salary and the almost complete lack of interest in Thad it seems like other teams don't value him as much as some here do. Even with ten more pounds on him he isn't tall enough to play the four for most teams and in three years in the league he hasn't shown he can play the three. With Iggy's much higher salary and the clearly bigger market for his services, it would appear that teams around the league value him far more than they do Thad. Maybe that should be telling us something.

I think Cleveland might be a team to jump into the fray for Iggy. Gilbert is going to want to make a splash.

Although he is annoying on other teams, Varejao is a very good defensive big, on ball and help defender and energy rounder. He, Delonte and at least one of those first round picks the Cavs own would be an interesting offer. As for Varejao's contract, it isn't as bad as it looks according to Hollinger, and he wrote the quote below when the contract is longer than it is now:

Varejao signed a six-year, $50 million deal to stay in Cleveland that drew howls of laughter until the fine print came out. Much of it is incentive-based and the last year isn't guaranteed, making the Cavs' obligation more on the order of five years, $38.5 million, with a $4 million golden parachute to make him go away if he's washed up by Year 6.

[Kobblehead]

I am surprised I am not hearing of more interest in Thad

I'm assuming alot of these teams are starting to value sample space over potential with him.

[Slacktard]

I don't envision any scenarios where keeping Iguodala allows the Sixers to add a true superstar to their team to push them into actual contenders. Maybe short of some other GM losing his brain and letting the Sixers be on the opposite side of a Charles Barkley type trade where they get the Superstar.

The 3 ways a team acquires a superstar are through the draft, through a trade, or through free agency. The most likely being by far being the draft and being in the top-5. The Sixers not having cap flexibility hinders the latter two options (much easier to make a trade when you have cap space, and obviously you can't sign a FA unless you have cap space). The Sixers becoming one of the bottom playoff teams would also then hinder the draft scenario because you're not getting a superstar with pick 18-22.

[The Guilty Party]

As much as I would love for the Sixers to swing another deal this summer, I think that in the big picture of things, they are much better off holding onto their players and waiting for the right deal to come around either at the deadline or next summer.

I would really hate to see us unload some of our chips for very little now and then see some all-star/superstar push his way onto the trade market and us not be in a position to obtain them. I remember Doug Collins talking about how the Celtics were built and how they were somewhat lucky that both Allen and Garnett were able to be had that summer. He said that you have to position yourself as a franchise to be lucky and I think that is what the Sixers are doing.

Get young talent in here, have short-term deals, and then be ready to strike when someone is made available via trade. The question I have is who is out there that might want out besides Chris Paul?

[BringBackKorver]

If the Jefferson to Utah deal doesn't go through, Deron is probably on his way out as well.

[Gsraider]

As much as I would love for the Sixers to swing another deal this summer, I think that in the big picture of things, they are much better off holding onto their players and waiting for the right deal to come around either at the deadline or next summer.

I would really hate to see us unload some of our chips for very little now

Have to agree TGP, but for a different reason. Guys like T. Young and M. Speights were considered up and coming players and probably had fairly nice trade value until the horrid E. Jordan experiment. Right now, the Sixers clearly have holes to fill, but they also have players that are probably only tradeable at discounted values right now. Values that should and probably will be higher with a return to around the .500 level and better overall system play. I think I would prefer to roll the dice and hope that many of these guys re-establish their values, while trying to shop expiring contracts like Green/Kapono to potentially fill holes. In terms of other players, I would probably be shopping Lou before Thad at this point.

[The Guilty Party]

Have to agree TGP, but for a different reason. Guys like T. Young and M. Speights were considered up and coming players and probably had fairly nice trade value until the horrid E. Jordan experiment. Right now, the Sixers clearly have holes to fill, but they also have players that are probably only tradeable at discounted values right now. Values that should and probably will be higher with a return to around the .500 level and better overall system play. I think I would prefer to roll the dice and hope that many of these guys re-establish their values, while trying to shop expiring contracts like Green/Kapono to potentially fill holes. In terms of other players, I would probably be shopping Lou before Thad at this point.

I agree with this as well. It's one thing to sell players for sixty cents on a dollar... it's another thing for us to unload players now after the horrible year that everyone had under Jordan. What player who was here under Cheeks/DiLeo had a better year under Jordan? Maybe Sam Dalembert but everyone else (Young, Speights, Williams, Iguodala, Brand, and even Willie Green) all had worse years.

Unless a great deal comes along, let these guys play under Collins and build up their value while we hope that players who are currently not on the trade market make their way there. Really, as Sixer fans... we should be rooting our hearts out for guys like Dwight Howard, Al Horford, and others to become disenfranchised with his current team.

[tk76]

Agree, I'm not for reshuffling deck chair type moves or pure salary dumps.

These next few years should be about developing/acquiring talent and getting the team in a position where they can pounce if a superstar becomes available through trade or FA.

The good thing is that the young players should all be entering their prime, so the team could be in a better position to compete + star than back when they signed Brand.

When Brand was signed:
Young 19 - raw 2+ years away
Speights 20 - raw 2+ years away
Lou 21 - developing 1-2 years away
Iguodala 24- prime
Sam 26 - prime
Miller 31

Now:
Jrue 20 - developing, 1-2 years away
Young 22 - developing, 1-2 years away
Speights 23 - developing, 1-2 years away
Turner 22 - hopefully only 1-2 years away based on college dominance
Hawes 22 - developing, hopefully 1-2 years away
Lou 24 - Entering prime
Iguodala 26 - In prime
Brand - 32 past prime

You can see this team is in a much better position to compete if they add the right superstar in the next 1-3 years. As opposed to when Brand was signed they were notably undercooked and short of young talent.