Official #1 pick thread: Simmons or Ingram? Merging topics and a Poll

[Easymoney]

Personally, I'd still take Ingram just like what I preferred in day 1.

I like the prospect of Ingram at the SF better than Simmons at the PF. I also think Ingram can make that Biid-Jah duo happen which I think is our edge against all teams because of his ability to space out the floor on offense and provide rim protection on defense.

I agree with this 100% percent.

Moving Okafor for Simmons when you have the option to simply draft Ingram, who is the #1 pick on most mock draft boards anyway, is a far too risky move to make. We already know what Okafor's floor is and it's 20 ppg player who will command consistent double teams, but will need to be hidden on defense. This is his floor we're talking about. Jah doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is content with simply being an NBA player. This is a dude who will get better every year because he strives for greatness. He's had to deal with very high expectations since he was a boy and he's won at every level so far. We would regret letting this guy go, mark my words.

Embiid/Jah/Ingram with Saric as the 6th man would be an absolute terror. All you would need to do is add an efficient Point Guard and get guys who can shoot and move off-ball.

[Ericb5]

Personally, I'd still take Ingram just like what I preferred in day 1.

I like the prospect of Ingram at the SF better than Simmons at the PF. I also think Ingram can make that Biid-Jah duo happen which I think is our edge against all teams because of his ability to space out the floor on offense and provide rim protection on defense.

I agree with this 100% percent.

Moving Okafor for Simmons when you have the option to simply draft Ingram, who is the #1 pick on most mock draft boards anyway, is a far too risky move to make. We already know what Okafor's floor is and it's 20 ppg player who will command consistent double teams, but will need to be hidden on defense. This is his floor we're talking about. Jah doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is content with simply being an NBA player. This is a dude who will get better every year because he strives for greatness. He's had to deal with very high expectations since he was a boy and he's won at every level so far. We would regret letting this guy go, mark my words.

Embiid/Jah/Ingram with Saric as the 6th man would be an absolute terror. All you would need to do is add an efficient Point Guard and get guys who can shoot and move off-ball.

Getting Ingram would be fantastic, and I completely share your enthusiasm for that.

I just would rather get Simmons, and figure out the rest. He has the "it" factor of a superstar that I don't see in Ingram.

[SparksFly87]

If we get Simmons at 1st pick. I'm still only trading okafor for a proven star or prospect like brandon Ingram.

[76ciology]

If we get Simmons, I'll explore him playing point forward or PG (Giannis role). I just don't like him at PF. I don't see him bulldozing his way in the NBA at the Pf position unlike in college.

Put him at PG with two long shooting wings and Jah-Biid, that could work.

Allow both our mobile bigs to go at the perimeter and then have three 8'10" standing reach perimeter players who can rotate into the paint on defense. Be a good defensive team that allows high volume of transition offense for Simmons.

Offensively, spacing is not optimal. But jah, biid and simmons can all attract help defense while two shooting wings and eventually 3 of them being good mid range shooters. While all five guys aren't liabilities with good basketball IQ.

[freshie2]

Of they draft Simmons it would be foolish to not have the ball in his hands as a playmaker.

[Ericb5]

If we get Simmons, I'll explore him playing point forward or PG (Giannis role). I just don't like him at PF. I don't see him bulldozing his way in the NBA at the Pf position unlike in college.

Put him at PG with two long shooting wings and Jah-Biid, that could work.

Allow both our mobile bigs to go at the perimeter and then have three 8'10" standing reach perimeter players who can rotate into the paint on defense. Be a good defensive team that allows high volume of transition offense for Simmons.

Offensively, spacing is not optimal. But jah, biid and simmons can all attract help defense while two shooting wings and eventually 3 of them being good mid range shooters. While all five guys aren't liabilities with good basketball IQ.

Okafor and Embiid would play the 4 and the 5 on offense and on defense. They may switch back and forth in some situations, but they would cover those two spots.

Then Simmons would play the 1 on offense and guard the 3. Then we would need two shooters that were capable of guarding the 1 and the 2.

That COULD work, and would be worth trying.

The issue really would be how well does Okafor guard the 4 and how well does Simmons guard the 3. It might turn out that Simmons would be better at guarding the 4, and then perhaps Okafor is traded for a more pure 2 or 3.

[76ciology]

If we get Simmons, I'll explore him playing point forward or PG (Giannis role). I just don't like him at PF. I don't see him bulldozing his way in the NBA at the Pf position unlike in college.

Put him at PG with two long shooting wings and Jah-Biid, that could work.

Allow both our mobile bigs to go at the perimeter and then have three 8'10" standing reach perimeter players who can rotate into the paint on defense. Be a good defensive team that allows high volume of transition offense for Simmons.

Offensively, spacing is not optimal. But jah, biid and simmons can all attract help defense while two shooting wings and eventually 3 of them being good mid range shooters. While all five guys aren't liabilities with good basketball IQ.

Okafor and Embiid would play the 4 and the 5 on offense and on defense. They may switch back and forth in some situations, but they would cover those two spots.

Then Simmons would play the 1 on offense and guard the 3. Then we would need two shooters that were capable of guarding the 1 and the 2.

That COULD work, and would be worth trying.

The issue really would be how well does Okafor guard the 4 and how well does Simmons guard the 3. It might turn out that Simmons would be better at guarding the 4, and then perhaps Okafor is traded for a more pure 2 or 3.

Agree to this. Simmons, Jah-Biid could work. If it works, it will be a match-up nightmare. Elite length on defense. Simmons on transition. Jah-Biid on halfcourt.

And if Simmons and Jah have problems guarding 3s and 4s, then one of them has to go.

[mksp]

Fact that all the Okafor supporters prefer Simmons makes me nervous.

[Easymoney]

Fact that all the Okafor supporters prefer Simmons makes me nervous.

It has more to do with Simmons unique skill set than anything. It is unusual for a guy his height to dribble well and it sort of makes him an attraction to fans. While he has an abundance of untapped potential, I feel he is a very risky investment due to some flaws in his game. If we had a guy like Iguadala or Philly Brand on our team, I would totally understand taking the chance on him. Unfortunately, we have a 20 year old kid, who's body hasn't even matured, who is capable of scoring an explosive 20 PPG while commanding double teams consistently. How good will he be offensively when he's 24? This is a guy who made massive improvements in FT shooting and continued to be dominant despite completely changing his style when he switched to the 4 spot. This drastic development all occurred within the course of only one year. I think he has all of the physical tools to be a decent team defender and his track record of improvement leads me to believe that this is something he will address.

Okafor becoming a decent defender and an absolute terror on offense is a far safer bet than Simmons gaining confidence in his shot, actually fixing his shot, then learning to finish with both hands. Embiid/Okafor/Ingram with Saric off the bench is the superior path to contention. Trade Noel for a serviceable 2 guard who can shoot, milk the Sacramento Kings dry. Begin adding complementary players to our core while using the Kings pick for the next few years as lottery insurance. Even with a low lottery pick (5-10ish), we'd still be able to find quality role-players who would make our team deep. Sign a 10-20 ranked PG, who can shoot the open 3, play good defense, and get the ball to our playmakers in all of their spots efficiently.

Ingram could lead an impressive perimeter defense with his measurements and intelligence. As it has been already said, an elite and long perimeter defense can negate the need for a traditional shot-blocking big. However, we'd have that too with Embiid at the 5. All Okafor has to do is play decent team defense and he'll be fine. Is the 20 year old who improved so much this year not able enough to learn decent team defense now? I strongly doubt it.

[freshie2]

You can't look at this for fit with current roster...it's simply biggest star. I still am taking Simmons, but see the argument for Ingram. Hopefully they get one of the two.

[Agnostifarian]

Personally, I'd still take Ingram just like what I preferred in day 1.

I like the prospect of Ingram at the SF better than Simmons at the PF. I also think Ingram can make that Biid-Jah duo happen which I think is our edge against all teams because of his ability to space out the floor on offense and provide rim protection on defense.

I agree with this 100% percent.

Moving Okafor for Simmons when you have the option to simply draft Ingram, who is the #1 pick on most mock draft boards anyway, is a far too risky move to make. We already know what Okafor's floor is and it's 20 ppg player who will command consistent double teams, but will need to be hidden on defense. This is his floor we're talking about. Jah doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is content with simply being an NBA player. This is a dude who will get better every year because he strives for greatness. He's had to deal with very high expectations since he was a boy and he's won at every level so far. We would regret letting this guy go, mark my words.

Embiid/Jah/Ingram with Saric as the 6th man would be an absolute terror. All you would need to do is add an efficient Point Guard and get guys who can shoot and move off-ball.

Getting Ingram would be fantastic, and I completely share your enthusiasm for that.

I just would rather get Simmons, and figure out the rest. He has the "it" factor of a superstar that I don't see in Ingram.

What is the "it" factor? Simmons didn't elevate his team. He quit on his team and his studies. Simmons went through the motions.

[Ericb5]

I agree with this 100% percent.

Moving Okafor for Simmons when you have the option to simply draft Ingram, who is the #1 pick on most mock draft boards anyway, is a far too risky move to make. We already know what Okafor's floor is and it's 20 ppg player who will command consistent double teams, but will need to be hidden on defense. This is his floor we're talking about. Jah doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is content with simply being an NBA player. This is a dude who will get better every year because he strives for greatness. He's had to deal with very high expectations since he was a boy and he's won at every level so far. We would regret letting this guy go, mark my words.

Embiid/Jah/Ingram with Saric as the 6th man would be an absolute terror. All you would need to do is add an efficient Point Guard and get guys who can shoot and move off-ball.

Getting Ingram would be fantastic, and I completely share your enthusiasm for that.

I just would rather get Simmons, and figure out the rest. He has the "it" factor of a superstar that I don't see in Ingram.

What is the "it" factor? Simmons didn't elevate his team. He quit on his team and his studies. Simmons went through the motions.

It isn't about team success, especially with a freshman in college. An "it" factor is an intangible.

I see a guy who can run a team, with unique skills that are going to be very difficult to defend. I think he will make his teammates better. He also has a charismatic face of the franchise vibe about him to me.

I think that Ingram is a great prospect, but his ceiling is as a Robin, and Simmons can be Batman.

With Simmons and Embiid we could have two Batmans that would compliment each other. It could be Kobe and Shaq all over again without the childish petulance of Kobe.

[Agnostifarian]

Getting Ingram would be fantastic, and I completely share your enthusiasm for that.

I just would rather get Simmons, and figure out the rest. He has the "it" factor of a superstar that I don't see in Ingram.

What is the "it" factor? Simmons didn't elevate his team. He quit on his team and his studies. Simmons went through the motions.

It isn't about team success, especially with a freshman in college. An "it" factor is an intangible.

I see a guy who can run a team, with unique skills that are going to be very difficult to defend. I think he will make his teammates better. He also has a charismatic face of the franchise vibe about him to me.

I think that Ingram is a great prospect, but his ceiling is as a Robin, and Simmons can be Batman.

With Simmons and Embiid we could have two Batmans that would compliment each other. It could be Kobe and Shaq all over again without the childish petulance of Kobe.

Aren't you the one who says, "science matters?" How can you let your vibes compensate for an uncertain wingspan measurement? First Hinkie resigns... Now this!

[Easymoney]

Getting Ingram would be fantastic, and I completely share your enthusiasm for that.

I just would rather get Simmons, and figure out the rest. He has the "it" factor of a superstar that I don't see in Ingram.

What is the "it" factor? Simmons didn't elevate his team. He quit on his team and his studies. Simmons went through the motions.

It isn't about team success, especially with a freshman in college. An "it" factor is an intangible.

I see a guy who can run a team, with unique skills that are going to be very difficult to defend. I think he will make his teammates better. He also has a charismatic face of the franchise vibe about him to me.

I think that Ingram is a great prospect, but his ceiling is as a Robin, and Simmons can be Batman.

With Simmons and Embiid we could have two Batmans that would compliment each other. It could be Kobe and Shaq all over again without the childish petulance of Kobe.

Two Batmans would never compliment each other. What you really want is a Batman and Superman team. =)

I see no earthly reason to risk drafting Simmons and have him bust when we already have a Superstar potential talent in Okafor, who has less flaws in his game. Once again, Okafor becoming a 25 ppg Superstar and decent team defender is far likelier to happen now that we have been shown his floor as a rookie- a 20 ppg scorer who will need to be hidden on defense. Simmons may be a more "marketable" player and thus may sell more sneakers, but that's not something I particularly care about.

Embiid/Okafor/Ingram is the best path to contention available and we should take it.

[Easymoney]

You can't look at this for fit with current roster...it's simply biggest star. I still am taking Simmons, but see the argument for Ingram. Hopefully they get one of the two.

You can in this situation. Drafting Simmons substantially increases the likelihood that we get rid of Jah and that can be problematic for one who believes Jah is the better player.

[76ciology]

Simmons is a star if his game can translate into the PG position or wing. Gives him star level edge at both positions. Most of it has got to do with him maximizing his ball skills.

At PF, you're looking at a roller to the basket and a secondary/tertiary ballhandler. Could be wrong, but it's the Draymond Green/Blake Griffin/Diaw role. You then make him more of a scorer and less of a ball handler while being guarded against bigger defenders.

[freshie2]

Please remember how bad LSU was this year...any other lottery picks on the roster? First rounders? They were bad, Simmons made them respectable.

[Ericb5]

What is the "it" factor? Simmons didn't elevate his team. He quit on his team and his studies. Simmons went through the motions.

It isn't about team success, especially with a freshman in college. An "it" factor is an intangible.

I see a guy who can run a team, with unique skills that are going to be very difficult to defend. I think he will make his teammates better. He also has a charismatic face of the franchise vibe about him to me.

I think that Ingram is a great prospect, but his ceiling is as a Robin, and Simmons can be Batman.

With Simmons and Embiid we could have two Batmans that would compliment each other. It could be Kobe and Shaq all over again without the childish petulance of Kobe.

Aren't you the one who says, "science matters?" How can you let your vibes compensate for an uncertain wingspan measurement? First Hinkie resigns... Now this!

Lol. Yes that's me, but it was more that DATA matters. His best traits aren't really measurable. They are his vision and his feel.

His measurables are good too, but I think that he will be better than the sum of his parts.

I believe that Simmons is a franchise player. That is basically what it comes down to here. I don't believe that Ingram is.

[Easymoney]

Please remember how bad LSU was this year...any other lottery picks on the roster? First rounders? They were bad, Simmons made them respectable.

His teammates have nothing to do with his hesitancy to shoot, his flawed shot, or him not being able to finish with both hands. These are the red flags most scouts are concerned with and why Ingram is going #1 on a considerable number of mock draft boards. There is always the chance he improves and becomes a dynamic player, but is giving up a more likely dynamic player in Okafor worth the risk?

As 76 said, Simmons is a star if he can play the role of PG effectively, which isn't a guarantee whatsoever. More likely than not, Simmons would have to be our 4 if we draft him. Is he really a better option at the 4 than Jah?

This is from Draft Express-

"Opponents were able to neutralize him very effectively in the half-court as the season moved on, simply backing five feet off him. Simmons would respond by getting very passive in turn, looking very conscious about firing up jumpers, even late in games when his team desperately needed him to be aggressive. To reach his full potential and effectively be paired with other players, Simmons will likely either need to significantly improve his jumper, or be surrounded by plenty of shooters at all times as a primary ball-handler."

Jah wasn't neutralized on offense like that this year against NBA LEVEL TALENT and he played with very unreliable shooters this season.

[Ericb5]

Give Simmons the ball and get out of the way. He is going to be a terror in the open court.

He also has the size and ability to feed the post. His length isn't great for the 4, but he is really going to be a hybrid player. A point forward, or maybe even a point guard.




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