If Okafor is traded for the 3rd pick, who do you want most?

[Cheatergriffin]

Rajon rondo might be the best idea ive heard so far to add to this team....cant shoot, always manages to piss his coaches off, holds on to ball and will only pass if its an assist for him....prob wants a decent salary...i think id rather see sam hinkie play point guard on this team than rondo

[spikeslovechild]

also you aren't always going to WIN every deal you do. At least not right away.

Lets say we trade Jah somewhere and he becomes great and all the things people wanted him to. While Dunn or Murray is just okay. On paper that would suck...but if Okafor simply not being here allowed Embiid to grow and if Simmons is who we thought he was....who gives a ****? The only way it is gamechangingly bad is if Dunn or Murray busts, Embiid never gets right, Noel leaves and Simmons is just ok. That would suck and with our luck is very possible...but even with Okafor (the ideal version), thats not a great situation anyway.

Also sometime just having a better structured roster is monumental. Ish Smith's bum ass made the team almost kinda sorta watchable. Even if you think Dunn is JUST ok at best...he's better than Ish (defensively alone). Adding that to what we hope Simmons is and just Noel too...not to even bring up Embiid. Makes us a lot better from jump. Defensively alone.

People need to get out of the Hinkie Mindset of "asset collection".

Look I also wish we could just keep Okafor or trade him for John Wall or some ****. I am not even saying Jah for 3 is a great amazing deal. Its just a hell of a lot better than what I expect Byran to do.

so relax

At the top you said you are not going to win every trade at the bottom you sort of come to terms to what the deal is. It's crap. None of these prospects that would be available at three are even in the same range of a prospect Okafor is.

More to the point Gm's don't have some sort of limiter saying okay we needed to move Okafor so now that he's gone I'll start making good deals. Bad deals beget more bad deals. Which is why I referenced tearing down the team brick by brick. Lets also be clear Okafor and Noel are really our only movable assets on the team other then picks.

[spikeslovechild]

There is simply not enough time for all of these guys to get minutes.

We have 3 centers. All of which need minutes to continue to grow. Embiid isn't ready for full time so he's probably about a 20 minutes a night guy. Noel, we need to find out what we have in him before paying him...or if we even want to. At forward with have Simmons. Probably Saric. Grant and Holmes and for small stretches Covington. All competing for minutes.

and then there is the "style" fit issues. Jah needs a slow it down, methodical half court system. The large bulk of our players aren't currently built for that and perhaps never will be.

Then there is the value issue. Noel's value lowers the more he plays and closer he gets to his extention. Embiid has **** all value. Saric could turn coat and stay in Europe if traded to somewhere he doesn't want to be. Hell, he should do that anyway if I was his agent. And we are selling him on loyalty and how much we want him here to get him over sooner...to turn around and trade him is just "bad optics". Jah has 3 more years left, is still rather young, not AS injury prone (I think his knee issues are general rookie wear and tear), and ironically due to our tanking could still have potential despite a lackluster season (in some regards).

SO yeah Okafor is probably a better player than Dunn and Hield. But not for us. This idea that we can just stockpile guys with no thought of cohesion is legit what got us here. It was probably the most legit knock against Hinkie. BPA is awesome and I even used it to advocate for Simmons over Ingram (I think he is a much easier fit than a methodical post up big so that changes things). but eventually, you end up holding many of your players back and stunting their growth..and eventual value. We do not have the leverage people would like to think we have. Teams with a glut of guys generally lose talent wise with trades. Most of the time, you are getting a lesser player or asset with the idea mainly being that while overall the guy(s) you got aren't better than the guy(s) you gave but overall the mix is better now.

A top 5 pick, weak draft or not, is probably the best we are going to get for one of our bigs. Everyone knows one has to go, Everyone knows one WILL go. So they aren't going to up the ante too much. Its like when teams trade guys prior to FA, because they know the alternative is worse than whatever package they settle for. The longer we keep the logjam, the worst our bigs will look, the less happy they are, and the lower their value gets (as they approach FA especially). This idea that Jah's value would remain the same as he struggles to get space with Simmons and Noel as two of his outlets, or Noel's value will somehow rise in a situation in which he is pulled from the rim to guard perimeter guys and his blocks suffer as a result. Or that we will basically give Simmons NO room to operate and Embiid gets scrap minutes to even see what he is. All because of "pride" and this lust to constantly body people in trades is counterproductive at the end of the day.

I am not saying just trade dudes for scraps. Hell I'm not even saying trade Okafor in particular...but someone has to go...and a top 5 pick isn't the worst return.

Luckily Boston doesn't have as much leverage either as they are rebuffed from getting all stars...but they could still just take Dunn..and then move Smart or Bradley for bigs.

I love how Philly fans only apply their arguments selectively. You just spent a whole paragraph saying the Sixers will have a hard time trading one of the bigs because Sixers have a glut and the whole league knows it so they won't get even trades. Then you say Boston can just take Dunn and move Smart or Bradley for bigs.

Never mind that Boston has glut of guards. So by your own logic, the whole league knows Boston has a glut of guards so they won't get even trades.

If Sixers don't have leverage, neither does Boston. If you are going to make an argument, at least apply it consistently.

Yeah they do. Bradley has more value to a lot more teams than Okafor for example. He fits in with many squads, particularly contenders. So yeah Boston isn't in a much better spot in terms of getting great deals (as it has shown) but the market for guards that play defense (because ideally Smart or Bradley would be on the move if Dunn is the choice...not to mention they could just take Bender or Brown and keep it moving.) is higher than someone with Jah's downsides. And thus easier to move overall.

Fans are too close to their own prospects that they can't see that perhaps their guys dont have as much value as they think they do. Jah could be a great player down the line...however fair or not, his off court issues, defensive issues and hell the fact that his game isn't exactly popular right now have moved his value lower than most of you seem to realize. Noel's may be even lower as people still think his ACL is an issue and ****.

I also like how you ignored the fact that I don't even want to trade Jah in particular for the 3rd pick. I just think that is the best realistic deal on the table ATM AND a move of one of the center need to happen before the season starts. It just isn't an ideal development situation for anyone to have that glut continue.

You guys are missing the point. It isn't about Jah in particular...but rather the TEAM as a whole. We will need to field a team this year...just stockpiling assets is not going to happen. So unless you think there is a reasonably better deal out there then by all means complain. At the end of the day, we cannot keep all 3 bigs (probably can't keep 2 of them honestly). It isn't conducive to actually developing guys. This idea that we can just keep all 3 guys, develop them and then easily pawn the worst of the bunch off for Kevin Durant is and always has been an unrealistic dream. let it go.

Look if Jah doesn't have that kind of value you hold onto him.

And I don't think Bradley and Smart have as much value as you think they do. Particularly, Smart who is garbage offensively. If they did Ainge would have been able to move him for an impact player which he has desperately been trying to acquire for the last two years.

[freshie2]

I'd be fine with Bradley as part of a deal, but have no interest in Smart.

[BobThornton]

The reality of current situation:

1. Ainge likes Noel.
2. Sixers want #3 pick to take Dunn.
3. Dunn may want to play for Sixers.
4. Noel is NOT enough for the #3 pick.
5. Can Philly bridge the gap (picks 24 and 26 are worthless to the Celtics)?
6. Celtics prepared to take Dunn as best player available (per ESPN) and player with most upside and star potential.

Dunn can take Evan Turner's minutes, who will not be back with Cs. Dunn gives Celtics another tremendous perimeter defender, and a player with solid offensive upside. He also makes players around him better. Smart, Bradley could be had around the league if price right.

Take Dunn. We're working on a deal with other teams.

Works for me. Truth is that I want Dunn and was afraid that Cs would pass based on need. But that was refuted.

Perhaps you can sign Rondo - he's a free agent. Shane Larkin opted out with the Nets also.

Should be interesting. Dunn refused to work out for Celtics and wouldn't share his medical records with them because of your glut of guards.

[NYSixersFan]

I like Dunn as a player, but not with Simmons...they both need the ball in their hands to be effective.....Murray is a much better fit....someone who can shoot and be a secondary playmaker.

[WVU]

Hield Hield Hield Hield

[Kobblehead]

I like Dunn as a player, but not with Simmons...they both need the ball in their hands to be effective.....Murray is a much better fit....someone who can shoot and be a secondary playmaker.

That's only in a half-court set, though.

Think about the suffocating defense with those two on the floor.
Think about the transition offense with those two on the floor.
Think about what wielding two elite positional facilitators / ball handlers in the same line-up would do for the other three guys on the court.

The positives of Dunn / Simmons far outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Getting a 2-way player that distributes at a high level is the goal of every franchise. Having two of them is nearly unprecedented (Bron/Wade, McMillan/Payton).

[51X3RF4N]

I like Dunn as a player, but not with Simmons...they both need the ball in their hands to be effective.....Murray is a much better fit....someone who can shoot and be a secondary playmaker.

That's only in a half-court set, though.

Think about the suffocating defense with those two on the floor.
Think about the transition offense with those two on the floor.
Think about what wielding two elite positional facilitators / ball handlers in the same line-up would do for the other three guys on the court.

The positives of Dunn / Simmons far outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Getting a 2-way player that distributes at a high level is the goal of every franchise. Having two of them is nearly unprecedented (Bron/Wade, McMillan/Payton).

I truly believe that Dunn is going to flourish in the NBA. His shot is not broken. He can hit shots, and he will work hard every single day with the top of the line coaches to improve his shot even further. I could easily see him being a 38-40% 3pt shooter eventually.

And as for Simmons, I think his shot is also not broken. I think he can become a nice outside shooter as well, when necessary. But, the combination of the 2 on offense will be special. Think about the 2 of them running pick and rolls with each other. Think about running it with Embiid.

Simmons can be a catch and shoot in the corner, or he can be a catch, fake shot, drive. Same with Dunn. These guys are ball players. They will figure out how to co-exist on offense, and the versatility will be key. What if Golden State would've had someone else who could break down the defense and score? Instead they had Klay who was blanketed by the defender cuz they weren't afraid of him beating them off the dribble. And they had Harrison Barnes who also struggles to create for himself. and those guys were taking forced jumpers when Cleveland turned up the defensive pressure. Meanwhile, Irving and LBJ were ballin getting to the bucket at will.

Even though they both might "need" the ball in their hands in the half court to be effective, I truly think that won't be an issue with those 2. They're both facilitators and pass it as often if not more, than they take shots. Put a 3 and D wing who can catch and shoot well in between them (like Danny Green) and wow.

If the Sixers can get Dunn for Noel and pieces, I'm kind of hoping the Sixers trade Okafor to the Spurs for Parker, Green, #29, and the Spurs 2017 1st unprotected.

Parker mentors Dunn while coming off the bench. He's familiar with Brett Brown. Dunn/Green/Simmons/Embiid. Then you have 3 late 1sts to "sell" to teams for established bench role players to fill out your depth.

[sixers hoops]

I like Dunn as a player, but not with Simmons...they both need the ball in their hands to be effective.....Murray is a much better fit....someone who can shoot and be a secondary playmaker.

That's only in a half-court set, though.

Think about the suffocating defense with those two on the floor.
Think about the transition offense with those two on the floor.
Think about what wielding two elite positional facilitators / ball handlers in the same line-up would do for the other three guys on the court.

The positives of Dunn / Simmons far outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Getting a 2-way player that distributes at a high level is the goal of every franchise. Having two of them is nearly unprecedented (Bron/Wade, McMillan/Payton).

Dunn can do everything we want except shoot lights out from deep. I take him and get shooters at the 2 and 3. Let Dunn, Simmons, and Embiid do what they do.

[Arsenal]

I like Dunn as a player, but not with Simmons...they both need the ball in their hands to be effective.....Murray is a much better fit....someone who can shoot and be a secondary playmaker.

That's only in a half-court set, though.

Think about the suffocating defense with those two on the floor.
Think about the transition offense with those two on the floor.
Think about what wielding two elite positional facilitators / ball handlers in the same line-up would do for the other three guys on the court.

The positives of Dunn / Simmons far outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Getting a 2-way player that distributes at a high level is the goal of every franchise. Having two of them is nearly unprecedented (Bron/Wade, McMillan/Payton).

This. Pair up Dunn/Simmons/Embiid with 2 3&D wings and you've got a potentially awesome starting lineup. We have one of them already in Covington. Just need one more in free agency. You have defense, shooting, transition game, playmaking, length, athleticism, everything.

Also it's not out of the question that Dunn's shooting percentages improve when he is surrounded by premium talent and can therefore take better shots.

[sixers hoops]

I like Dunn as a player, but not with Simmons...they both need the ball in their hands to be effective.....Murray is a much better fit....someone who can shoot and be a secondary playmaker.

That's only in a half-court set, though.

Think about the suffocating defense with those two on the floor.
Think about the transition offense with those two on the floor.
Think about what wielding two elite positional facilitators / ball handlers in the same line-up would do for the other three guys on the court.

The positives of Dunn / Simmons far outweigh the negatives, IMO.

Getting a 2-way player that distributes at a high level is the goal of every franchise. Having two of them is nearly unprecedented (Bron/Wade, McMillan/Payton).

This. Pair up Dunn/Simmons/Embiid with 2 3&D wings and you've got a potentially awesome starting lineup. We have one of them already in Covington. Just need one more in free agency. You have defense, shooting, transition game, playmaking, length, athleticism, everything.

Also it's not out of the question that Dunn's shooting percentages improve when he is surrounded by premium talent and can therefore take better shots.

Noel fits great as a rim protector with that group. Not as much help offensively.

[Kobblehead]

Noel fits great as a rim protector with that group. Not as much help offensively.

I disagree. Think about where the majority of our offense is going to come with Dunn and Simmons running the show.

- pick-n-roll
- getting out in transition (due to the insane steal generation)

Noel is arguably one of the best bigs in the NBA in getting out and running the floor AND he's a great finisher in the pick-n-roll.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I want Kris Dunn, Philly wants Kris Dunn, Kris Dunn....wants Philly.

[sixers hoops]

Noel fits great as a rim protector with that group. Not as much help offensively.

I disagree. Think about where the majority of our offense is going to come with Dunn and Simmons running the show.

- pick-n-roll
- getting out in transition (due to the insane steal generation)

Noel is arguably one of the best bigs in the NBA in getting out and running the floor AND he's a great finisher in the pick-n-roll.

I think a 12-14 footer would help as well.

[Gsraider]

Works for me. Truth is that I want Dunn and was afraid that Cs would pass based on need. But that was refuted.

If there is no trade to be worked out between Boston and Philly, part of me would actually be amused by Boston selecting Dunn rather than trade the pick to someone else. I am hot and cold in terms of Dunn's potential as a pro in that I think he'll be stellar defensively, but offensively I'm just not sure mostly because of his shot. His recklessness can be reduced with good coaching. Just the same, how does Boston intend to field an actual frontcourt? Sure, they have cap space, as does everyone else in the NBA right now. They have assets, but as they have learned, it's not easy to trade picks in this draft for difference makers. So, go ahead and draft Dunn and create a very solid backcourt with A. Bradley, who is also a very good player. With Smart possibly coming off the bench, that's a pretty good trio. Of course, then you look at the frontcourt and you see guys like Zeller, Sullinger, Johnson, and Olynick and you see a middling team that's one and done in the playoffs.

The fact is, in my opinion, Boston has to make a move for the same reason that Philly is contemplating one. They are just positionally imbalanced and they managed to get the #3 pick at a time when it's all guards when they pick. So sure, perhaps they don't think Okafor or Noel are worth the #3 pick, but I think they better find another big they like for the #3 in a trade and I'm not sure who that is. Otherwise, select Dunn and Boston will be no scarier next year or going forward then say teams like MIL, ATL, or DET.

[HankTheTank]

I'm so uncomfortable with the whole world knowing we want Dunn. A shark like Ainge will take Dunn and hold BC up for ransom-- in other words, Hinkie him.

[sixers hoops]

I'm so uncomfortable with the whole world knowing we want Dunn. A shark like Ainge will take Dunn and hold BC up for ransom-- in other words, Hinkie him.

Then I'd let him keep him and move on. But yeah, not confident in BC yet.

[51X3RF4N]

I'm so uncomfortable with the whole world knowing we want Dunn. A shark like Ainge will take Dunn and hold BC up for ransom-- in other words, Hinkie him.

If Ainge is trying like Hell to up the ante on the third pick, and Philly simply waits them out with patience (because after all, we don't NEED Dunn, we have other options), then eventually Ainge will realize when he's on the clock @ 3 that he didn't get anything else he wanted for it, so he'll settle for the Sixers final offer, which will be either Noel or Okafor, for the 3rd pick and a sweetener. We do hold all the leverage here. Ainge has struck out on any other trades for the 3rd pick. We're all he has left. And we don't even 100% need to pull it off the way he does.

[Gsraider]

I'm so uncomfortable with the whole world knowing we want Dunn. A shark like Ainge will take Dunn and hold BC up for ransom-- in other words, Hinkie him.

Since we're all kind of new to Colangelo, it's hard to have a lot of confidence just yet, but why does everyone assume that Philly absolutely wants K. Dunn? This is lying season (in every professional sport) and oftentimes guys are thrown out there in an effort to try and make teams think they want a specific guy in the hopes that someone else falls. On that same note, there are all sorts of assumptions that Boston really is interested in Okafor or Noel based on an unsubstantiated rumor floated out of Boston (I believe) that said they had a deal in place for Okafor at the trade deadline last year. How do we know that's even true? All I know for sure is that Boston and Phoenix need help up front and Philly needs help in the back court.