2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[Kobblehead]

Jonathan Isaac is definitely a covetable piece. Probably a Top 6 lock. He's everything I was hoping Brandon Ingram would be, in the early going.

[Kolkmania]

Ball's not just a facilitator, though. He's knocking down over 2 threes a game and over 80% of them are assisted. He's a great catch and shoot player. Which is exactly what you want playing with Embiid and Simmons.

Im not saying Ball isnt a good shooter. Im a huge Ball fan. But his biggest strength is running an offense. Simmons needs to run the offense, with no jumper and no low post moves for him to shine he needs to run the offense. Can Ball play off of that, ya of course but you start getting diminishing returns because their strengths over lap one another. Neither are scorers, their both setup type players. Thats why I think Fultz fits better, Fultz is an elite scorer on or off the ball. Fultz doesnt need to run the offense for him to be at his best, he just needs to be put in situations to score because scoring is what he does best.

There are no diminishing returns. He's a catch and shoot player who sees the court and passes the ball. He doesn't pound the ball. There is never too many passers or rebounders on a team. Only too many guys who pound the ball or too many guys who can't shoot.

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

[sixerswillrule]

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Yeah, people keep saying that Embiid will be our #1 scorer and using that as a reason for why the potentially elite scorer would not be the best fit alongside Embiid. As I've said I disagree with that even if we're certain that Embiid will be healthy for the next 10 years. But regardless, there is no certainty with Embiid. As much as I've loved his first 13 games, you definitely can't write that down in ink just yet. The better choice for this team is the better overall prospect, especially in the scenario where neither player would be a bad fit, which I think we can all agree is the case here.

[PhilasFinest]

Im not saying Ball isnt a good shooter. Im a huge Ball fan. But his biggest strength is running an offense. Simmons needs to run the offense, with no jumper and no low post moves for him to shine he needs to run the offense. Can Ball play off of that, ya of course but you start getting diminishing returns because their strengths over lap one another. Neither are scorers, their both setup type players. Thats why I think Fultz fits better, Fultz is an elite scorer on or off the ball. Fultz doesnt need to run the offense for him to be at his best, he just needs to be put in situations to score because scoring is what he does best.

There are no diminishing returns. He's a catch and shoot player who sees the court and passes the ball. He doesn't pound the ball. There is never too many passers or rebounders on a team. Only too many guys who pound the ball or too many guys who can't shoot.

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

How does Ball project as a "glue guy"?

He has been one of the best basketball players in the country as a freshman. He has elite size for his position, is an elite playmaker/passer w/ elite vision, shoots the ball from 3 at an elite level, rebounds well for a guard and gets his hands on balls for steals/blocks.

[eagereyez]

There are no diminishing returns. He's a catch and shoot player who sees the court and passes the ball. He doesn't pound the ball. There is never too many passers or rebounders on a team. Only too many guys who pound the ball or too many guys who can't shoot.

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

How does Ball project as a "glue guy"?

He has been one of the best basketball players in the country as a freshman. He has elite size for his position, is an elite playmaker/passer w/ elite vision, shoots the ball from 3 at an elite level, rebounds well for a guard and gets his hands on balls for steals/blocks.

Glue guy as in Ball will never be the #1 option on a championship contender.

[sixerswillrule]

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

How does Ball project as a "glue guy"?

He has been one of the best basketball players in the country as a freshman. He has elite size for his position, is an elite playmaker/passer w/ elite vision, shoots the ball from 3 at an elite level, rebounds well for a guard and gets his hands on balls for steals/blocks.

Glue guy as in Ball will never be the #1 option on a championship contender.

Replace #1 option with #1 or #2 option before others can respond.

[LloydFree]

Im not saying Ball isnt a good shooter. Im a huge Ball fan. But his biggest strength is running an offense. Simmons needs to run the offense, with no jumper and no low post moves for him to shine he needs to run the offense. Can Ball play off of that, ya of course but you start getting diminishing returns because their strengths over lap one another. Neither are scorers, their both setup type players. Thats why I think Fultz fits better, Fultz is an elite scorer on or off the ball. Fultz doesnt need to run the offense for him to be at his best, he just needs to be put in situations to score because scoring is what he does best.

There are no diminishing returns. He's a catch and shoot player who sees the court and passes the ball. He doesn't pound the ball. There is never too many passers or rebounders on a team. Only too many guys who pound the ball or too many guys who can't shoot.

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

I don't know if he's a top 3 pick yet. I haven't seen enough of everybody else. I don't make absolute declarations on these guys until I've seen them in different situations. Right now, I like him better than everybody else. He looks as good as Russell from two years ago, IMO. He looks like Zach Lavine, with a much better basketball IQ. And I know it's a bunch of guys here who would trade a top 3pick for Zach Lavine. So yes, as of now I think he is talented enough to be a #3 overall pick, but I don't know if he is a top 3 pick in this draft, because I don't have enough data on everybody else.

[Marcus]

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

How does Ball project as a "glue guy"?

He has been one of the best basketball players in the country as a freshman. He has elite size for his position, is an elite playmaker/passer w/ elite vision, shoots the ball from 3 at an elite level, rebounds well for a guard and gets his hands on balls for steals/blocks.

Glue guy as in Ball will never be the #1 option on a championship contender.

It's a bit like how Jason Kidd was the best player on that Nets team that went back to back to the finals. Great player clearly the main guy but just not enough to carry a team to a chip without some studs around him. Its not a knock against Lonzo or his skillset just a fact about his game and how he plays it.

[Kolkmania]

There are no diminishing returns. He's a catch and shoot player who sees the court and passes the ball. He doesn't pound the ball. There is never too many passers or rebounders on a team. Only too many guys who pound the ball or too many guys who can't shoot.

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

How does Ball project as a "glue guy"?

He has been one of the best basketball players in the country as a freshman. He has elite size for his position, is an elite playmaker/passer w/ elite vision, shoots the ball from 3 at an elite level, rebounds well for a guard and gets his hands on balls for steals/blocks.

Like you said he does everything well. He's extremely versatile on the defensive end, not the best on-ball defender, but can guard multiple guys in a team concept defense if he adds some muscle. Ball is a really good rebounder, defensively and offensively.

Offensively I'm not sold on him like most people here, his weird shot form limits him to catch and shoot or a sideway, stepback three. His handles look fine, but as soon as he's penetrating the defense it gets significantly looser, leading to TO's when he's running an occasional P&R or forced to kick it out.
Aside from transition (his best skill offensively) he doesn't show elite playmaking skill to me. He's incredibly accurate with his passing and a good decision maker, but he doesn't create space for his teammates. He rarely attacks the defense, so his teammates are dependent on their off-ball movement and offensive sets. UCLA is one of the deepest team in college scoring wise, Holiday/Hamilton/Welsh and especially TJ Leaf are excellent college players which leads to increased assist numbers.

So basically he's not a primary or secondary scoring option for me in the NBA and his playmaking ability is a bit overrated in my opinion, which makes him a great glue guy for me.

[Marcus]

There are no diminishing returns. He's a catch and shoot player who sees the court and passes the ball. He doesn't pound the ball. There is never too many passers or rebounders on a team. Only too many guys who pound the ball or too many guys who can't shoot.

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

I don't know if he's a top 3 pick yet. I haven't seen enough of everybody else. I don't make absolute declarations on these guys until I've seen them in different situations. Right now, I like him better than everybody else. He looks as good as Russell from two years ago, IMO. He looks like Zach Lavine, with a much better basketball IQ. And I know it's a bunch of guys here who would trade a top 3pick for Zach Lavine. So yes, as of now I think he is talented enough to be a #3 overall pick, but I don't know if he is a top 3 pick in this draft, because I don't have enough data on everybody else.

You saying Ball looks like Zach LaVine or Jonathan Isaac looks like Zach LaVine?

[PhilasFinest]

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Yeah, people keep saying that Embiid will be our #1 scorer and using that as a reason for why the potentially elite scorer would not be the best fit alongside Embiid. As I've I disagreed with that even if we're certain that Embiid will be healthy for the next 10 years. But regardless, there is no certainty with Embiid. As much as I've loved his first 13 games, you definitely can't write that down in ink just yet. The better choice for this team is the better overall prospect, especially in the scenario where neither player would be a bad fit, which I think we can all agree is the case here.

I honestly think people are selling themselves on other prospects outside of Fultz, who's likely the projected #1 overall pick right now. Its always easy to fall in love with the #1 projected player, but when the odds of landing back to back #1 picks are so slim, I know I personally will try to find a few players in the class that I like a lot for us.

A lot will depend on Simmons and how he looks when he returns.

[PhilasFinest]

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Haven't watched any full games of Florida State yet, can someone tell me how he has looked on the defensive end this year? He wasn't known for his lateral quickness/perimeter defense and that's a problem if he's playing like an oversized wing.

I don't know if he's a top 3 pick yet. I haven't seen enough of everybody else. I don't make absolute declarations on these guys until I've seen them in different situations. Right now, I like him better than everybody else. He looks as good as Russell from two years ago, IMO. He looks like Zach Lavine, with a much better basketball IQ. And I know it's a bunch of guys here who would trade a top 3pick for Zach Lavine. So yes, as of now I think he is talented enough to be a #3 overall pick, but I don't know if he is a top 3 pick in this draft, because I don't have enough data on everybody else.

You saying Ball looks like Zach LaVine or Jonathan Isaac looks like Zach LaVine?

Im not speaking for him, but id put top dollar on Ball/LaVine being the comparison.

[sixerswillrule]

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Yeah, people keep saying that Embiid will be our #1 scorer and using that as a reason for why the potentially elite scorer would not be the best fit alongside Embiid. As I've I disagreed with that even if we're certain that Embiid will be healthy for the next 10 years. But regardless, there is no certainty with Embiid. As much as I've loved his first 13 games, you definitely can't write that down in ink just yet. The better choice for this team is the better overall prospect, especially in the scenario where neither player would be a bad fit, which I think we can all agree is the case here.

I honestly think people are selling themselves on other prospects outside of Fultz, who's likely the projected #1 overall pick right now. Its always easy to fall in love with the #1 projected player, but when the odds of landing back to back #1 picks are so slim, I know I personally will try to find a few players in the class that I like a lot for us.

A lot will depend on Simmons and how he looks when he returns.

Ball is my #2 choice for the Sixers at the moment, for what it's worth.

I like Monk and Isaac too. Hopefully we could get either one with the Lakers pick.

[Marcus]

I don't know if he's a top 3 pick yet. I haven't seen enough of everybody else. I don't make absolute declarations on these guys until I've seen them in different situations. Right now, I like him better than everybody else. He looks as good as Russell from two years ago, IMO. He looks like Zach Lavine, with a much better basketball IQ. And I know it's a bunch of guys here who would trade a top 3pick for Zach Lavine. So yes, as of now I think he is talented enough to be a #3 overall pick, but I don't know if he is a top 3 pick in this draft, because I don't have enough data on everybody else.

You saying Ball looks like Zach LaVine or Jonathan Isaac looks like Zach LaVine?

Im not speaking for him, but id put top dollar on Ball/LaVine being the comparison.

Yeah that's what I figured. Outside of complexion, height, and school they couldn't be more different. Isaac is closer but that's different too.

[eagereyez]

Is that enough to warrant a top three pick in this draft though? I'm not saying it isn't, but I really think Lonzo Ball is a glue guy at the next level. With Simmons and Embiid we already have quality players so it wouldn't be the worst thing, however a wing/guard with scoring ability would have my priority.

Yeah, people keep saying that Embiid will be our #1 scorer and using that as a reason for why the potentially elite scorer would not be the best fit alongside Embiid. As I've I disagreed with that even if we're certain that Embiid will be healthy for the next 10 years. But regardless, there is no certainty with Embiid. As much as I've loved his first 13 games, you definitely can't write that down in ink just yet. The better choice for this team is the better overall prospect, especially in the scenario where neither player would be a bad fit, which I think we can all agree is the case here.

I honestly think people are selling themselves on other prospects outside of Fultz, who's likely the projected #1 overall pick right now. Its always easy to fall in love with the #1 projected player, but when the odds of landing back to back #1 picks are so slim, I know I personally will try to find a few players in the class that I like a lot for us.

A lot will depend on Simmons and how he looks when he returns.

I'd feel better about Ball if Simmons came out of the gate getting buckets. Right now his offensive game is limited, and evidence suggests that he's shooting with the wrong hand... I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[PhilasFinest]

How does Ball project as a "glue guy"?

He has been one of the best basketball players in the country as a freshman. He has elite size for his position, is an elite playmaker/passer w/ elite vision, shoots the ball from 3 at an elite level, rebounds well for a guard and gets his hands on balls for steals/blocks.

Glue guy as in Ball will never be the #1 option on a championship contender.

It's a bit like how Jason Kidd was the best player on that Nets team that went back to back to the finals. Great player clearly the main guy but just not enough to carry a team to a chip without some studs around him. Its not a knock against Lonzo or his skillset just a fact about his game and how he plays it.

But can Embiid and/or Simmons be enough to put him over the top? That is the question and likely something we wont be able to answer for a few years.

Kidd led that Nets team to the finals paired with Vince Carter. He was the bets player on that team and technically had them as "Championship contenders". He eventually won a title with Dallas paired with Dirk. Dirk was no doubt their #1 option, but without Kidd, do they win it?

When I hear glue guy, I think of Bruce Bowen.... not Jason Kidd. Kidd was a superstar and franchise player.

[sixerswillrule]

Glue guy as in Ball will never be the #1 option on a championship contender.

It's a bit like how Jason Kidd was the best player on that Nets team that went back to back to the finals. Great player clearly the main guy but just not enough to carry a team to a chip without some studs around him. Its not a knock against Lonzo or his skillset just a fact about his game and how he plays it.

But can Embiid and/or Simmons be enough to put him over the top? That is the question and likely something we wont be able to answer for a few years.

Kidd led that Nets team to the finals paired with Vince Carter. He was the bets player on that team and technically had them as "Championship contenders". He eventually won a title with Dallas paired with Dirk. Dirk was no doubt their #1 option, but without Kidd, do they win it?

When I hear glue guy, I think of Bruce Bowen.... not Jason Kidd. Kidd was a superstar and franchise player.

Think elite glue guy or borderline all-star, ideally a #3 option on a contender, similar to

[PhilasFinest]

You saying Ball looks like Zach LaVine or Jonathan Isaac looks like Zach LaVine?

Im not speaking for him, but id put top dollar on Ball/LaVine being the comparison.

Yeah that's what I figured. Outside of complexion, height, and school they couldn't be more different. Isaac is closer but that's different too.

Yea I mean, they look pretty similar. Like you mentioned, complexion, size and school... but both also have a bit of a funky shot and aren't shy to let it fly from 3.

That being said, LaVine is a much more explosive athlete/leaper. Ball is a far superior playmaker/passer.

Not sure what you mean with Isaac is closer? He's a 6'11 SF. Not sure how he and LaVine/Ball are anything alike.

[PhilasFinest]

It's a bit like how Jason Kidd was the best player on that Nets team that went back to back to the finals. Great player clearly the main guy but just not enough to carry a team to a chip without some studs around him. Its not a knock against Lonzo or his skillset just a fact about his game and how he plays it.

But can Embiid and/or Simmons be enough to put him over the top? That is the question and likely something we wont be able to answer for a few years.

Kidd led that Nets team to the finals paired with Vince Carter. He was the bets player on that team and technically had them as "Championship contenders". He eventually won a title with Dallas paired with Dirk. Dirk was no doubt their #1 option, but without Kidd, do they win it?

When I hear glue guy, I think of Bruce Bowen.... not Jason Kidd. Kidd was a superstar and franchise player.

Think elite glue guy or borderline all-star, ideally a #3 option on a contender, similar to

In this era of 1 and done college ball, Id be happy with that in the top 5 of the draft.

[cksdayoff]

josh jackson could be an elite glue guy. hope he fixes that hitch