Around the league 2016-2017

[Kobblehead]

Exactly, if he wins an NBA championship, you'll have some excuse. So despite you baiting me into this, it's clearly not worth continuing this conversation.

I just want to get you to hold him accountable. After several fights, fired coaches, team suspensions, league suspensions, I feel like people should stop enabling him and admit that he's a huge part of the problem why his team hasn't won.

[Negrodamus]

Exactly, if he wins an NBA championship, you'll have some excuse. So despite you baiting me into this, it's clearly not worth continuing this conversation.

I just want to get you to hold him accountable. After several fights, fired coaches, team suspensions, league suspensions, I feel like people should stop enabling him and admit that he's a huge part of the problem why his team hasn't won.

Similarly, I'll never eat crow because he's won an Olympic gold medal by fitting in with talented players. So he's proven that he can win when playing with other talented players.

Just as silly of an argument, but I'll stick with it.

[Negrodamus]

Sure, as long as you're still batting 1.00 on all predictions.

[Ericb5]

I think people need to look at Portland's win/loss record during the Rasheed Wallace era. They were incredibly successful.

49 wins
46 wins
35 wins
59 wins
50 wins
49 wins
50 wins

The narrative that Rasheed was a career loser like Cousins that just needed to get traded to a successful organization to finally contribute to winning basketball is a false one. He was always a winner. Cousins is not. He's a loser.

Cousins is a bigger problem child than Sheed was, but he also has more talent than Sheed. Sheed was a terrific player, but he wasn't a superstar. Cousins is a legitimate superstar level player. If he had his head screwed on straight he COULD be the best player on a contender. He is THAT talented.

Sheed was always suited to being a robin, but Cousins can be Batman.



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[Ericb5]

Cousins is about 25-26 years old, and players who don't get it by then don't tend to suddenly figure it out. Trust me. I was the biggest Iverson apologist that there was when he was that age, but looking back, it was obvious that he wasn't going to get it either.

Cousins will need to be traded, and the Kings would be smart to do it before his value plummets. The only way that he could succeed in Sacramento at this point is for a better player to come to the team, and take the reigns from him, and that probably isn't going to happen.

As a Sixer fan, I would prefer that they hold on to him for as long as possible because we have their 2019 pick, and that increases the likelihood of that pick being a great one. If I were a Kings fan, again having learned this lesson with Iverson the hard way, I would want to trade him this season for as much as I could get. They could get a lot of assets for him this year.


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[cksdayoff]

I think people need to look at Portland's win/loss record during the Rasheed Wallace era. They were incredibly successful.

49 wins
46 wins
35 wins
59 wins
50 wins
49 wins
50 wins

The narrative that Rasheed was a career loser like Cousins that just needed to get traded to a successful organization to finally contribute to winning basketball is a false one. He was always a winner. Cousins is not. He's a loser.

Yeah Sheed won plenty he was just, um, mercurial.

Pretty sure his supporting cast was better than Rudy Gay and Darren Collison though. I'd like to see Boogie with a good roster before I close the book on him.

those blazer teams were sick. stacey augmon, greg anthony, baby jermaine oneal, jr smith, sheed, brian grant, bonzi wells, might mouse, sabonis, and pippen later on

that was the god squad back then

[Winejk]

I love Cuban. He'd make a great politician because he waffles on issues. He's talking about Dallas not tanking. He has been on record saying the Sixers were going about the rebuild wrong and was against tanking. Now that his Mavs are in last place, he says they play hard every night (no different than the Sixers the past few years), hopes injuries will get better (same as the Sixers waiting for Noel, Simmons and Embiid), and will evaluate things as they go with regards to player movement. Yet the Sixers were tanking and the Mavs are not. Love the hypocrisy.

[Ericb5]

I love Cuban. He'd make a great politician because he waffles on issues. He's talking about Dallas not tanking. He has been on record saying the Sixers were going about the rebuild wrong and was against tanking. Now that his Mavs are in last place, he says they play hard every night (no different than the Sixers the past few years), hopes injuries will get better (same as the Sixers waiting for Noel, Simmons and Embiid), and will evaluate things as they go with regards to player movement. Yet the Sixers were tanking and the Mavs are not. Love the hypocrisy.

He also characterized an aspect of tanking as pulling the good players out of the game late to try to lose. This is intellectual dishonesty.

The Sixers never did that either. The coaches, and the players tried their best to win every game. The GM removed all players that weren't considered part of the future, and one of the benefits of that was making a team that was in capable of winning.

It isn't like we would take Turner, Hawes, and Young out of the game in the third quarter because we were playing too well.

I'm a big fan of Mark Cuban as a business man. I think that he is probably my favorite shark on sharktank. He is extremely intelligent, and experienced. However, he is very blow hardy and dishonest as an nba owner.

[LloydFree]

Sean Kilpatrick scored 38 pts and grabbed 14 rebounds tonight. Somehow we have this guy who was a beast in college, in our camp, but determine he wasn't good enough. But we keep TJ McConnell for two seasons because he's scrappy. SMH.

[PhilasFinest]

Sean Kilpatrick scored 38 pts and grabbed 14 rebounds tonight. Somehow we have this guy who was a beast in college, in our camp, but determine he wasn't good enough. But we keep TJ McConnell for two seasons because he's scrappy. SMH.

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

[HartfordWhalers]

Sean Kilpatrick scored 38 pts and grabbed 14 rebounds tonight. Somehow we have this guy who was a beast in college, in our camp, but determine he wasn't good enough. But we keep TJ McConnell for two seasons because he's scrappy. SMH.

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

Teams that have cut Kilpatrick:
GS
Minn (not re-signed after 10 day contract expired)
New Orleans
Denver (not re-signed after 2 10 day contracts expired)

Teams that didn't sign him but had him in their summer league:
Philly (2014)
Mil (2015)

Teams that could have signed him when he was an unrestricted free agent (repeatedly) since he was in Philly's 2014 summer league camp:
All 30

Its great that he is playing well right now, but clearly he wasn't some sure fire talent at the time.

[LloydFree]

Sean Kilpatrick scored 38 pts and grabbed 14 rebounds tonight. Somehow we have this guy who was a beast in college, in our camp, but determine he wasn't good enough. But we keep TJ McConnell for two seasons because he's scrappy. SMH.

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

Hinkie takes a lot of undeserved criticism for some of his tactics, but this is the type of thing for which he didnt get enough criticism. On a team that had all of these spots filled with no talents, for the last 3 seasons, he did a bad job finding fringe talent from the undrafted free-agent types. And the guys he picked up, who are good, he let go. We had Kilpatrick, Dedmond and Tim Frazier, all big producers in college and clearly good enough athletes, who performed relatively well when they were with us, but he let them go for nothing. I don't know if the blame goes to Hinkie or Brown for not identifying these players as keepers.

[Kolkmania]

Sean Kilpatrick scored 38 pts and grabbed 14 rebounds tonight. Somehow we have this guy who was a beast in college, in our camp, but determine he wasn't good enough. But we keep TJ McConnell for two seasons because he's scrappy. SMH.

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

Hinkie takes a lot of undeserved criticism for some of his tactics, but this is the type of thing for which he didnt get enough criticism. On a team that had all of these spots filled with no talents, for the last 3 seasons, he did a bad job finding fringe talent from the undrafted free-agent types. And the guys he picked up, who are good, he let go. We had Kilpatrick, Dedmond and Tim Frazier, all big producers in college and clearly good enough athletes, who performed relatively well when they were with us, but he let them go for nothing. I don't know if the blame goes to Hinkie or Brown for not identifying these players as keepers.

Well, he actually signed those guys, so he did acknowledge they had talent. Perhaps they developed after those (short) stints with the Sixers, another reason might be that these players need some actual NBA players around them to flourish. TJ McConnell, Hollis Thompson are undrafted prospects who have a role right now and Robert Covington is one of the best defensive small forwards in the league, not the worst result. Anyway, these guys typically won't play a huge role in our long-term future so ending up with Covington is quite impressive.

[TTP]

Sean Kilpatrick scored 38 pts and grabbed 14 rebounds tonight. Somehow we have this guy who was a beast in college, in our camp, but determine he wasn't good enough. But we keep TJ McConnell for two seasons because he's scrappy. SMH.

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

Hinkie takes a lot of undeserved criticism for some of his tactics, but this is the type of thing for which he didnt get enough criticism. On a team that had all of these spots filled with no talents, for the last 3 seasons, he did a bad job finding fringe talent from the undrafted free-agent types. And the guys he picked up, who are good, he let go. We had Kilpatrick, Dedmond and Tim Frazier, all big producers in college and clearly good enough athletes, who performed relatively well when they were with us, but he let them go for nothing. I don't know if the blame goes to Hinkie or Brown for not identifying these players as keepers.

Covington is significantly better than any of those guys.

We wouldn't have had roster space for Kilpatrick or Dedmon going into this season. If we signed Kilpatrick, it would have meant we would have cut Stauskas. I'd rather have Stauskas than Kilpatrick and I'd rather have Holmes than Dedmon. Both of them are 27 with significantly less upside than Stauskas or Holmes, and I'm not sure either are even better now.

I'd definitely rather have Frazier than McConnell but it's unreasonable to expect us to come away with everyone that eventually breaks out. I think we've done a pretty good job overall. Covington was a huge find and Hollis is above replacement level.

[Sixerscan]

Sean Kilpatrick scored 38 pts and grabbed 14 rebounds tonight. Somehow we have this guy who was a beast in college, in our camp, but determine he wasn't good enough. But we keep TJ McConnell for two seasons because he's scrappy. SMH.

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

Hinkie takes a lot of undeserved criticism for some of his tactics, but this is the type of thing for which he didnt get enough criticism. On a team that had all of these spots filled with no talents, for the last 3 seasons, he did a bad job finding fringe talent from the undrafted free-agent types. And the guys he picked up, who are good, he let go. We had Kilpatrick, Dedmond and Tim Frazier, all big producers in college and clearly good enough athletes, who performed relatively well when they were with us, but he let them go for nothing. I don't know if the blame goes to Hinkie or Brown for not identifying these players as keepers.

Give the players credit for working hard and improving their games. Someone like Tim Frazier played 21 games combined in the 2.5 years after Hinkie cut him. He worked to get where he is today.

Who knows, maybe in 3 years when TJ is Frazier's age he will be even better. He certainly has the work ethic.

[sixerswillrule]

Does Giannis getting to the rim at will despite the lack of a jumpshot give hope for Simmons or is there too big of a difference in athleticism/length?

[LloydFree]

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

Hinkie takes a lot of undeserved criticism for some of his tactics, but this is the type of thing for which he didnt get enough criticism. On a team that had all of these spots filled with no talents, for the last 3 seasons, he did a bad job finding fringe talent from the undrafted free-agent types. And the guys he picked up, who are good, he let go. We had Kilpatrick, Dedmond and Tim Frazier, all big producers in college and clearly good enough athletes, who performed relatively well when they were with us, but he let them go for nothing. I don't know if the blame goes to Hinkie or Brown for not identifying these players as keepers.

Covington is significantly better than any of those guys.

We wouldn't have had roster space for Kilpatrick or Dedmon going into this season. If we signed Kilpatrick, it would have meant we would have cut Stauskas. I'd rather have Stauskas than Kilpatrick and I'd rather have Holmes than Dedmon. Both of them are 27 with significantly less upside than Stauskas or Holmes, and I'm not sure either are even better now.

I'd definitely rather have Frazier than McConnell but it's unreasonable to expect us to come away with everyone that eventually breaks out. I think we've done a pretty good job overall. Covington was a huge find and Hollis is above replacement level.

Hinkie deserves all the credit in the world for Covington. But over 3 years, I believe he still could have done a lot better in acquiring and developing this type of player. The roster was never full enough to just let players like Kilpatrick and Dedmond go. It was never Kilpatrick or Stauskas or Demond or Holmes. Those guys were on the team a year before they got here. They cut Kilpatrick and kept guys like Alexi Shved and other guys they cut within weeks after the 2014 season was underway. Kilpatrick and Dedmond were better than guys on the team then, and they're better than guys on the team now.

[PhilasFinest]

Does Giannis getting to the rim at will despite the lack of a jumpshot give hope for Simmons or is there too big of a difference in athleticism/length?

Outside of length, I don't see there being a huge difference between the 2. I think the added length with Giannis gives him the edge defensively and also finishing inside, but I also believe Simmons to be a superior ball handler/passer.

I don't think Simmons will finish as easy as Giannis around the rim, but I also don't see why Simmons can't get to the line at will in the NBA.

[PhilasFinest]

Hinkie takes a lot of undeserved criticism for some of his tactics, but this is the type of thing for which he didnt get enough criticism. On a team that had all of these spots filled with no talents, for the last 3 seasons, he did a bad job finding fringe talent from the undrafted free-agent types. And the guys he picked up, who are good, he let go. We had Kilpatrick, Dedmond and Tim Frazier, all big producers in college and clearly good enough athletes, who performed relatively well when they were with us, but he let them go for nothing. I don't know if the blame goes to Hinkie or Brown for not identifying these players as keepers.

Covington is significantly better than any of those guys.

We wouldn't have had roster space for Kilpatrick or Dedmon going into this season. If we signed Kilpatrick, it would have meant we would have cut Stauskas. I'd rather have Stauskas than Kilpatrick and I'd rather have Holmes than Dedmon. Both of them are 27 with significantly less upside than Stauskas or Holmes, and I'm not sure either are even better now.

I'd definitely rather have Frazier than McConnell but it's unreasonable to expect us to come away with everyone that eventually breaks out. I think we've done a pretty good job overall. Covington was a huge find and Hollis is above replacement level.

Hinkie deserves all the credit in the world for Covington. But over 3 years, I believe he still could have done a lot better in acquiring and developing this type of player. The roster was never full enough to just let players like Kilpatrick and Dedmond go. It was never Kilpatrick or Stauskas or Demond or Holmes. Those guys were on the team a year before they got here. They cut Kilpatrick and kept guys like Alexi Shved and other guys they cut within weeks after the 2014 season was underway. Kilpatrick and Dedmond were better than guys on the team then, and they're better than guys on the team now.

I still think Hinkie overlooked some guys simply because we were looking to lose games. Adding scorers/shooters may have won us a few games.

[LloydFree]

Yea man, he's playing well for BK. Never understood why he didn't get a deal with us considering he dominated the D league for our sevens and filled a big void at a position of need.

Hinkie takes a lot of undeserved criticism for some of his tactics, but this is the type of thing for which he didnt get enough criticism. On a team that had all of these spots filled with no talents, for the last 3 seasons, he did a bad job finding fringe talent from the undrafted free-agent types. And the guys he picked up, who are good, he let go. We had Kilpatrick, Dedmond and Tim Frazier, all big producers in college and clearly good enough athletes, who performed relatively well when they were with us, but he let them go for nothing. I don't know if the blame goes to Hinkie or Brown for not identifying these players as keepers.

Give the players credit for working hard and improving their games. Someone like Tim Frazier played 21 games combined in the 2.5 years after Hinkie cut him. He worked to get where he is today.

Who knows, maybe in 3 years when TJ is Frazier's age he will be even better. He certainly has the work ethic.

Yes, you are absolutely right about a guy like Tim Frazier, who was a pretty nondescript player that had to work hard just to get noticed. He was not an obvious keeper. But there is still no excuse for a team that spent 3 years 'dumpster diving', to only come up with one (1) serious keeper in that time. Young, cheap, talent acquisition was a primary focus of the organization and they didn't do as good of a job at this, as some of the team's that were focused on 'win-now'. During that time Miami practically filled a whole starting lineup with these kinds of players. I don't know how you defend that.

And this isn't just hindsight on the examples that I gave. Kilpatrick and Dedmond were highly thought of college players, that we were surprised were not drafted. And they performed well with us at a time when we had multiple roster spots available to develop them. Go back and look at the threads on these guys. We thought they were good players then, and they just let them go.