Where is Jahlil Okafor?

[Ericb5]

Based on what? Forget Porzingis for a minute. Myles Turner is a significantly better player than Okafor. Devin Booker is a significantly better player than Okafor. Trey Lyles is a significantly better player than Okafor. So that's 4 players selected in the lottery behind Okafor that are clearly better talents and you still believe that Okafor was the correct pick. That's just being obstinate.

Were you arguing at the time that we should have taken Turner or Lyles?

If so, please point me to those posts.

Saying today what we should have done after the fact is a different thing than saying it then.

The question of who F-Stop or I, WOULD have picked wasn't being discussed. But evidently you didn't read or comprehend that. F-Stop said he STILL says Okafor was the correct pick, which is just being ridiculous, and anybody who still feels that way, either doesn't have a clue about what they are watching or is being obstinate.

The point is that it was the correct pick at the time. That is a very different thing than being the right pick two years later.

I would like to marry the posters that say Porzingis was the pick with what they said at the time.

Sure it is easy to say that Hinkie was the GM and not us, but we all had opinions.

What I want to see is who would have taken Porzingis over Russell because I am quite sure that I was in the minority on that one.

NOBODY in their right mind can argue that Russell is a better prospect than Porzingis today.


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[TTP]

Lol at rhj,Richardson, and Powell.

You're biased against them because of their draft position. They're all positive NBA players right now. RHJ is possibly already a top 5 defender at his position. Josh Richardson was a well above average 3 and D player his rookie season, though there's a lot of reason to believe his 3 point percentage is fluky. Powell is another positive 3 and D player that is in the rotation of a championship contender and played 206 playoff minutes for them last season. Good two way wings are really valuable right now - they're significantly more scarce than big men.

[LloydFree]

Were you arguing at the time that we should have taken Turner or Lyles?

If so, please point me to those posts.

Saying today what we should have done after the fact is a different thing than saying it then.

The question of who F-Stop or I, WOULD have picked wasn't being discussed. But evidently you didn't read or comprehend that. F-Stop said he STILL says Okafor was the correct pick, which is just being ridiculous, and anybody who still feels that way, either doesn't have a clue about what they are watching or is being obstinate.

The point is that it was the correct pick at the time. That is a very different thing than being the right pick two years later.

I would like to marry the posters that say Porzingis was the pick with what they said at the time.

Sure it is easy to say that Hinkie was the GM and not us, but we all had opinions.

What I want to see is who would have taken Porzingis over Russell because I am quite sure that I was in the minority on that one.

NOBODY in their right mind can argue that Russell is a better prospect than Porzingis today.


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And you are still in the minority with your ridiculous notion that Okafor is a better prospect than Russell.

[Sportfan73]

Lol at rhj,Richardson, and Powell.

You're biased against them because of their draft position. They're all positive NBA players right now. RHJ is possibly already a top 5 defender at his position. Josh Richardson was a well above average 3 and D player his rookie season, though there's a lot of reason to believe his 3 point percentage is fluky. Powell is another positive 3 and D player that is in the rotation of a championship contender and played 206 playoff minutes for them last season. Good two way wings are really valuable right now - they're significantly more scarce than big men.

No, I am not, they aren't top 3 picks they are role players. For many flaws as Jah has he has INFINITE more potential to be a game changer than any of those 3. I put Jah in the 5 to 10 range in a redraft

[TTP]

Lol at rhj,Richardson, and Powell.

You're biased against them because of their draft position. They're all positive NBA players right now. RHJ is possibly already a top 5 defender at his position. Josh Richardson was a well above average 3 and D player his rookie season, though there's a lot of reason to believe his 3 point percentage is fluky. Powell is another positive 3 and D player that is in the rotation of a championship contender and played 206 playoff minutes for them last season. Good two way wings are really valuable right now - they're significantly more scarce than big men.

No, I am not, they aren't top 3 picks they are role players. For many flaws as Jah has he has INFINITE more potential to be a game changer than any of those 3. I put Jah in the 5 to 10 range in a redraft

Draft position matters a lot less after a year plus of NBA info. There are plenty of examples of top 3 picks that were no longer considered so a year later. I'm not sure Okafor has much potential to be a starter on a championship contender, but I think all three of those guys do.

[LloydFree]

Lol at rhj,Richardson, and Powell.

You're biased against them because of their draft position. They're all positive NBA players right now. RHJ is possibly already a top 5 defender at his position. Josh Richardson was a well above average 3 and D player his rookie season, though there's a lot of reason to believe his 3 point percentage is fluky. Powell is another positive 3 and D player that is in the rotation of a championship contender and played 206 playoff minutes for them last season. Good two way wings are really valuable right now - they're significantly more scarce than big men.

No, I am not, they aren't top 3 picks they are role players. For many flaws as Jah has he has INFINITE more potential to be a game changer than any of those 3. I put Jah in the 5 to 10 range in a redraft

If Toronto were to offer Norman Powell for Okafor, you better put your ski mask on, take it and run. Don't let the draft position fool you. He's a better player than Okafor and about 5 other 2015 lottery picks.

[TeamHigh]

I'll never understand how it became gospel that Porzingis was this "consensus better player than Okafor!!!1"


going into the 2015 Draft, do people not remember the laughter and debate when the Knicks took Porzingis at 4?

It wasn't some obvious consensus that he was going top 5. Lots of people mocked the Knicks for taking him so high.
it was pretty well known that the top 3 was Towns/Okafor/Russell. with the big shock of the night being Russell taken OVER Okafor at #2.

And if it was simply a matter of taking the next player on the draft board, you wouldn't even need a GM, just an algorithm.

Of course he should be judged by how the players actually pan out. As every GM is similarly judged.

[SelfishPlayer]

It's disconcerning that some people tie Okafor and Brett Brown/Hinkie/Colangelos at the hip. They do that as if Okafor could have never reached a greater level of basketball if he were drafted by another organization. I've seen Eagles fans become highly critical of DeMarco Murray while he was here. It was HIS fault that he wasn't playing well. He was washed up after leading the league in rushing the previous season for the Cowboys. He now couldn't "hit the holes fast enough." The reality is that since he was traded to the Titans he got out from under Chip Kelly's ill fitting system so we can now clearly see that he was always the same DOMINANT player. DeMArco Murray is second in the NFL in rushing this season. A bad coach can make a dominant player look bad. Imagine if Chip Kelly drafted DeMArco Murray. He may have never become anything in the league.

[TTP]

It's disconcerning that some people tie Okafor and Brett Brown/Hinkie/Colangelos at the hip. They do that as if Okafor could have never reached a greater level of basketball if he were drafted by another organization. I've seen Eagles fans become highly critical of DeMarco Murray while he was here. It was HIS fault that he wasn't playing well. He was washed up after leading the league in rushing the previous season for the Cowboys. He now couldn't "hit the holes fast enough." The reality is that since he was traded to the Titans he got out from under Chip Kelly's ill fitting system so we can now clearly see that he was always the same DOMINANT player. DeMArco Murray is second in the NFL in rushing this season. A bad coach can make a dominant player look bad. Imagine if Chip Kelly drafted DeMArco Murray. He may have never become anything in the league.

Casual fans often overreact to small samples, are generally loud, ignorant and uninformed, and don't represent the opinions of everyone. Whatever generalization you are trying to make here is meaningless.

This argument makes more sense if the player was the best player on a bad team. It makes a lot less sense when he was the worst player on a bad team.

[F-Stop]

sorry for the slow responses currently at work

TTP -- trying to twist words to fit your context.. ( Just to be clear though, your position is that he's a good player that just didn't care enough to try last year because of the circumstances around him? )


What words did I twist? You stated Okafor was a good player. I stated that Okafor was not good last season. You stated that Okafor gave a lack of effort because the team around him was designed to lose. Is this your position? If not, what was your argument in your previous post?

BTW we're several posts in and you still haven't told me why you think Okafor is a good player - the exact criticism I had in my first response to you. Instead you've given me a bunch of reasons for why he hasn't been a good player, which runs contrary to your initial position that he is a good player now.

1) What makes him a good player to you? OK4's body of work up to the point where he became a 6er. Guy was a consensus top 5 pick since he was 16 years old. The man went to Duke, was there top player and won a National Championship. Since becoming a 6er he has not played up to standards but as I said before its a team game. I think the environment was hostile to his performance. A back to the basket player with face-up iso skills that has no post feeder PG on a team fringe talent.


2) Even if I accept your position that the organization was at fault for not putting a better team around him, why do the numbers indicate he was the worst player on the team? Everyone else on the team was under the same conditions and none performed as poorly as he did? Refer to answer #1. He was a rookie, this was a unique situation so much so it got Hinkie fired.

3) They're being paid - they're still being taken care of. I don't think the team environment ever seemed poor during the Hinkie era. Many players were given a chance that wouldn't have been given a chance elsewhere. Correct - they are receiving pay however were they put into proper working conditions as contractual players? Those fringe guys of course were happy to be given a chance to show their skills and make possibly the most money they will ever get. players considered to be higher level need and expect more which was not given to them.

4) You say Covington is a fringe NBA player but I think he would be a starter on a decent number of playoff teams and a rotation member for every playoff team in the league. He was 13th in the NBA for SFs in RPM each of the last two seasons, and 3rd in DRPM for SFs last season. This indicates he's a slightly above average NBA starter at SF and a well above average defender. Okafor, on the other hand, might be a fringe NBA player, and even if he managed to break into a playoff team's rotation, would get the Enes Kanter treatment vs certain teams like the Warriors. Regarding Covington, lets be real, he is a low tier volume shooter. Covington's career is one were we were getting blown out in 200 out of 240 games the other team is just trying to get out of there without injuries..

5) Lol at some of the misinformation here. You say that when Noel got here, they traded away MCW? Noel was on the team prior to MCW (he was traded to us a few picks before MCW was drafted). The other moves were all salary dumps. You're coming off across as fairly ignorant even mentioning those guys. I know the entire Noel situation, they were in the same draft with Noel not playing his rookie season, they played half a season together.

6) Tons of ridiculous speculation regarding Noel.

7) Ah you're one of the 17 & 8 Prokafors. That's all you had to say.

Regarding #7 - Who are you to call me anything.. What are your credentials to make statements regarding the type of person I am?

I haven't come sideways at you yet but I'm a Prokafor.

[Ericb5]

The question of who F-Stop or I, WOULD have picked wasn't being discussed. But evidently you didn't read or comprehend that. F-Stop said he STILL says Okafor was the correct pick, which is just being ridiculous, and anybody who still feels that way, either doesn't have a clue about what they are watching or is being obstinate.

The point is that it was the correct pick at the time. That is a very different thing than being the right pick two years later.

I would like to marry the posters that say Porzingis was the pick with what they said at the time.

Sure it is easy to say that Hinkie was the GM and not us, but we all had opinions.

What I want to see is who would have taken Porzingis over Russell because I am quite sure that I was in the minority on that one.

NOBODY in their right mind can argue that Russell is a better prospect than Porzingis today.


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And you are still in the minority with your ridiculous notion that Okafor is a better prospect than Russell.

I may be, but I still believe that Okafor was a better prospect than Russell.

Don't forget that the choice was not Okafor or Russell. The choice was Russell or Porzingis. Nobody thought that the Lakers were going to pass on Okafor until the last few days.

Porzingis was a better prospect than Russell, and that has been born out by their play since then.


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[TTP]

Well you've had plenty of opportunities to tell me why you like Okafor and the only thing I've gotten so far is that he scores 17 and 8 (which isn't even accurate, was 17.5 and 7). That characterization of Okafor fans is basically a meme at this point.

[phiphan]

I said Porzingis was gonna be a bust and wanted Mario "DNP-CD" Hezonja after Russell went #2. Can anyone top that?

[Ericb5]

Well you've had plenty of opportunities to tell me why you like Okafor and the only thing I've gotten so far is that he scores 17 and 8 (which isn't even accurate, was 17.5 and 7). That characterization of Okafor fans is basically a meme at this point.

Why do I like Okafor?

Seems silly at this point.

It is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent. He was a safer bet than anyone available at the time.

Despite being not at full strength since January, he is still performing well.

He isn't in game shape yet, and despite not being a long term fit with the Sixers, he still has a bright future in the NBA. He will be a stud with us, or a stud with someone else.


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[Sixerscan]

Hollis is averaging 3.8 rebounds in 19.4 mpg
Okafor is averaging 3.8 rebounds in 19.1 mpg

[LloydFree]

Lol at rhj,Richardson, and Powell.

You're biased against them because of their draft position. They're all positive NBA players right now. RHJ is possibly already a top 5 defender at his position. Josh Richardson was a well above average 3 and D player his rookie season, though there's a lot of reason to believe his 3 point percentage is fluky. Powell is another positive 3 and D player that is in the rotation of a championship contender and played 206 playoff minutes for them last season. Good two way wings are really valuable right now - they're significantly more scarce than big men.

No, I am not, they aren't top 3 picks they are role players. For many flaws as Jah has he has INFINITE more potential to be a game changer than any of those 3. I put Jah in the 5 to 10 range in a redraft

That's the problem for 'Jah. He was drafted as a top 3 pick, so it's automatically assumed he has more potential to be a game changer than those 'role players'. He's catching more crap, because now we can plainly see he is nothing more than a role player. A backup Center, who can get you some points that plays no defense. That's a role player.

As far as your other point:. Okafor's position in a redraft

1. Towns
2. Porzingis
3. Russell
4. Booker
5. Turner
6. Lyles

... are all clearly better than him and there is zero chance you could get Mudiay or Stanley Johnson in a trade for him. Norman Powell is better than him. Ronde Hollis-Jefferson and Josh Richardson have played better than him as pros.

So you could argue he's in the 7-10 range, but I'd take at least 10 players ahead of him in a re-draft. Getting the 10th best player in the draft is not acceptable when you are picking #3. You are supposed to be getting a cornerstone player at that point of the draft.

[TTP]

Well you've had plenty of opportunities to tell me why you like Okafor and the only thing I've gotten so far is that he scores 17 and 8 (which isn't even accurate, was 17.5 and 7). That characterization of Okafor fans is basically a meme at this point.

Why do I like Okafor?

Seems silly at this point.

It is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent. He was a safer bet than anyone available at the time.

Despite being not at full strength since January, he is still performing well.

He isn't in game shape yet, and despite not being a long term fit with the Sixers, he still has a bright future in the NBA. He will be a stud with us, or a stud with someone else.


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Was responding to F-Stop.

Though I disagree with "it is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent" and "he is still performing well". He is a scoring talent - he has tremendous offensive weaknesses that keep him from being elite on offense overall. I don't understand how anyone can say he has been performing well.

[Ericb5]

Well you've had plenty of opportunities to tell me why you like Okafor and the only thing I've gotten so far is that he scores 17 and 8 (which isn't even accurate, was 17.5 and 7). That characterization of Okafor fans is basically a meme at this point.

Why do I like Okafor?

Seems silly at this point.

It is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent. He was a safer bet than anyone available at the time.

Despite being not at full strength since January, he is still performing well.

He isn't in game shape yet, and despite not being a long term fit with the Sixers, he still has a bright future in the NBA. He will be a stud with us, or a stud with someone else.


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Was responding to F-Stop.

Though I disagree with "it is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent" and "he is still performing well". He is a scoring talent - he has tremendous offensive weaknesses that keep him from being elite on offense overall. I don't understand how anyone can say he has been performing well.

What is an offensive weakness of his?


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[LloydFree]

The point is that it was the correct pick at the time. That is a very different thing than being the right pick two years later.

I would like to marry the posters that say Porzingis was the pick with what they said at the time.

Sure it is easy to say that Hinkie was the GM and not us, but we all had opinions.

What I want to see is who would have taken Porzingis over Russell because I am quite sure that I was in the minority on that one.

NOBODY in their right mind can argue that Russell is a better prospect than Porzingis today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And you are still in the minority with your ridiculous notion that Okafor is a better prospect than Russell.

I may be, but I still believe that Okafor was a better prospect than Russell.

Don't forget that the choice was not Okafor or Russell. The choice was Russell or Porzingis. Nobody thought that the Lakers were going to pass on Okafor until the last few days.

Porzingis was a better prospect than Russell, and that has been born out by their play since then.

We're in an Okafor thread. What does your preference of Porzingis over Russell have to do with anything? You also preferred Okafor over Porzingis. So while you are patting yourself on the back for preference of Porzingis over Russell, please note that you also preferred Okafor over all of them.

[TTP]

Why do I like Okafor?

Seems silly at this point.

It is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent. He was a safer bet than anyone available at the time.

Despite being not at full strength since January, he is still performing well.

He isn't in game shape yet, and despite not being a long term fit with the Sixers, he still has a bright future in the NBA. He will be a stud with us, or a stud with someone else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Was responding to F-Stop.

Though I disagree with "it is obvious that he is an elite offensive talent" and "he is still performing well". He is a scoring talent - he has tremendous offensive weaknesses that keep him from being elite on offense overall. I don't understand how anyone can say he has been performing well.

What is an offensive weakness of his?


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Screen setting, off ball movement, ball stopping, outside shooting.