Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?)

[GoSixersBro]

My prediction is something like:

Maxey and Harris for VanVleet and OG Anunoby.

FVV is a whatever player, same with Tobias. Maxey fits the scoring "PG" position that'll concede ballhandling duties to Barnes. Anunoby is the type of role playing PF that Harden would like to play with.

Makes sense for both teams and you know Morey wants one last crack at it with Harden.

EDIT: to be clear, I don't want it.

As someone who despises Harris and is intrigued by OG, I still would feel gross if this trade went through.

[FlyingArrow]

If we're in general agreement that Embiid was one of the primary reasons we lost, what reasonable improvement can Embiid make that will get us over the hump?

He's not 25 anymore.

Play no more than 35 minutes per game, even in the playoffs. Average more like 30 or 31 minutes per game. That in itself should help considerably. Less of tired-Joel. Less of Joel playing lazy trying to save energy for later.

Lower usage rate and corresponding uptick in defensive intensity. We've seen defensive possessions where Joel basically stops the whole team by himself. More of that. But it's tiring... that means fewer shots on offense. More rebounds as well, with the same tradeoff. Boxing out and fighting for rebounds is tiring... meaning fewer shots on offense.

As part of the fewer shots... far fewer shots involving multiple dribbles. He had far too many turnovers driving in and finding himself in a double team that he didn't see coming. Turnovers. Stop those. Keep the trailing 3pt shots, the deep post moves, the elbow jumpers, and add more OReb putbacks. Just stop the dribble drives that sometimes look amazing but too often end in turnovers.

So that's where he can improve. It takes buy-in from Joel as well as a coaching change, because you know Doc isn't going to push for anything like that. But as much as Joel wanted the MVP, maybe he wants DPOY next year. If so, that goal might actually serve the team well.

This feels more like a game planning change than anything, though I agree with it.

I don't know if Joel will go for it though. Remember, he thinks he's Kobe, Jordan, Lebron.

Yeah, a change of gameplan, which is why I'm bullish on our prospects with a new coach. If we bring Doc back, what's the point of even playing the season?

Embiid is his own person, which is even better than mimicking an all-time great. Who else has his game? His size/strength with his elbow shot, 3pt shot, defense, and ball-handling. Even if the ball-handling isn't as good as he thinks it is, it's far better than most any other center.

Dirk didn't have his defense. If Wemby or Chet Holmgren live up to their potential, they might check all of those boxes except for strength. Who else even comes close to checking all those boxes? He's 1-of-1, not just now but all-time. Though, to be fair, big guys didn't really try to shoot 3pt shots or dribble until recently.

[Negrodamus]

My prediction is something like:

Maxey and Harris for VanVleet and OG Anunoby.

FVV is a whatever player, same with Tobias. Maxey fits the scoring "PG" position that'll concede ballhandling duties to Barnes. Anunoby is the type of role playing PF that Harden would like to play with.

Makes sense for both teams and you know Morey wants one last crack at it with Harden.

EDIT: to be clear, I don't want it.

OG wants to be a first or second option.

Toronto has their usual absurd ask as well... three firsts and a young guy or some such.

Ok then Tobi and Maxey for Siakam. They have like 3-4 toolsy PFs that Morey would have a hardon for.

[Negrodamus]

My prediction is something like:

Maxey and Harris for VanVleet and OG Anunoby.

FVV is a whatever player, same with Tobias. Maxey fits the scoring "PG" position that'll concede ballhandling duties to Barnes. Anunoby is the type of role playing PF that Harden would like to play with.

Makes sense for both teams and you know Morey wants one last crack at it with Harden.

EDIT: to be clear, I don't want it.

As someone who despises Harris and is intrigued by OG, I still would feel gross if this trade went through.

It feels like Maxey is a means to an end for Morey at this point. Unless there is something drastic happening, like Harden leaving, there is only one major chip on this roster that possesses large value due to age, talent, and current contract. Morey prob wants an established star right now to match with Embiid and Harden.

[Negrodamus]

Or we can finally go full Temple of Losers and do a Tobi, Maxey, and assets for KAT. Would probably be doing Minnesota a favor by taking on his massive contract.

[mksp]

Or we can finally go full Temple of Losers and do a Tobi, Maxey, and assets for KAT. Would probably be doing Minnesota a favor by taking on his massive contract.

Would be an amazing offense, just a couple 7 footers allergic to rebounding spamming 3s at 34%

[Bum Adebayo]

I don't see a good move player-wise, but maybe it's there. Which means... run it back minus Doc.

Embiid is our MVP. He didn't get it done in the playoffs, but we aren't getting it done without a top 10 player. What top ten player are we getting for Embiid? It's not time to re-start the process. The only thing that would make sense is to trade him for Wemby, and I'd be on board for that. But I can't think of a team that would do that other than maybe the Blazers if they win the lotto and want to win with Lillard still there without waiting for Wemby to develop. In terms of actual trade value, I think Embiid is worth about the same as Wemby, but I don't think any other team that wins the lotto would be in enough of a win-now mode to make the trade.

Harden will decide what to do, but I don't think he's getting a big offer sheet anywhere, which means he will opt-in. If he does sign somewhere else, hopefully we can make it a sign-and-trade so that we can give up a 2nd round pick just to get the trade exception. Harden will be about the same next year, but a slight bit worse since he's a year older.

Maxey is our best hope for improvement (other than a coaching change). Still young enough to add more to his game. What's his trade value? I think he has trade value, but he isn't overvalued... we'd get back someone as good as Maxey, no better. So what's the point?

If we can flip Tobias for something better at the trade deadline, then absolutely do it. But he's one of the better 4th options out there. His contract is terrible, but his play is fine. He's like a 3&D role player with a little more creation of his own and a little less D. Not at all worth his contract, but absolutely worth a roster and starting spot. This year he posted a career high TS%, largely driven by his career high in 3pt attempt rate.

Then the bench and Tucker... we can get marginal improvement, but it's also marginal impact.

The real change has to come from a new coach, who gets Embiid to be a defense-first player, and who plays him low enough minutes that he can maintain his energy level. And also make all the pieces fit together.

He is not a top 10 player in playoffs, let's start counting 10 players or so that perform better in playoffs, in no order:
-Jokic
-Butler
-Lebron
-Davis
-Fox
-Booker
-Durant
-Curry
-Doncic
-Brunson
-Kawhi
-Brown
I haven't even included Giannis because meh he doesn't really elevate his game in playoffs most of the time, but he should still be slightly above Embiid. I'm probably forgetting more players too.

[ProcessDoctor]

Or we can finally go full Temple of Losers and do a Tobi, Maxey, and assets for KAT. Would probably be doing Minnesota a favor by taking on his massive contract.

KAT's bballref page is so good though. If we added in Korkmaz, we could take back Conley...


Harden/Conley
Melton/Springer
Tucker/Niang/House
Towns/(MLE)
Embiid/Reed

[Jailblazers7]

Ugh, the idea of KAT on this team hurts my brain.

[Jay555]

Or we can finally go full Temple of Losers and do a Tobi, Maxey, and assets for KAT. Would probably be doing Minnesota a favor by taking on his massive contract.

KAT's bballref page is so good though. If we added in Korkmaz, we could take back Conley...


Harden/Conley
Melton/Springer
Tucker/Niang/House
Towns/(MLE)
Embiid/Reed

Towns is another soft big… nope.

[Jay555]

I don't see a good move player-wise, but maybe it's there. Which means... run it back minus Doc.

Embiid is our MVP. He didn't get it done in the playoffs, but we aren't getting it done without a top 10 player. What top ten player are we getting for Embiid? It's not time to re-start the process. The only thing that would make sense is to trade him for Wemby, and I'd be on board for that. But I can't think of a team that would do that other than maybe the Blazers if they win the lotto and want to win with Lillard still there without waiting for Wemby to develop. In terms of actual trade value, I think Embiid is worth about the same as Wemby, but I don't think any other team that wins the lotto would be in enough of a win-now mode to make the trade.

Harden will decide what to do, but I don't think he's getting a big offer sheet anywhere, which means he will opt-in. If he does sign somewhere else, hopefully we can make it a sign-and-trade so that we can give up a 2nd round pick just to get the trade exception. Harden will be about the same next year, but a slight bit worse since he's a year older.

Maxey is our best hope for improvement (other than a coaching change). Still young enough to add more to his game. What's his trade value? I think he has trade value, but he isn't overvalued... we'd get back someone as good as Maxey, no better. So what's the point?

If we can flip Tobias for something better at the trade deadline, then absolutely do it. But he's one of the better 4th options out there. His contract is terrible, but his play is fine. He's like a 3&D role player with a little more creation of his own and a little less D. Not at all worth his contract, but absolutely worth a roster and starting spot. This year he posted a career high TS%, largely driven by his career high in 3pt attempt rate.

Then the bench and Tucker... we can get marginal improvement, but it's also marginal impact.

The real change has to come from a new coach, who gets Embiid to be a defense-first player, and who plays him low enough minutes that he can maintain his energy level. And also make all the pieces fit together.

He is not a top 10 player in playoffs, let's start counting 10 players or so that perform better in playoffs, in no order:
-Jokic
-Butler
-Lebron
-Davis
-Fox
-Booker
-Durant
-Curry
-Doncic
-Brunson
-Kawhi
-Brown
I haven't even included Giannis because meh he doesn't really elevate his game in playoffs most of the time, but he should still be slightly above Embiid. I'm probably forgetting more players too.

That should be more accurate. Heck, Harden is the best sixer ranked about top 15. Those two games helped big time.

Then you have Maxey, then Tobi, then Embiid. So big fella is the 4th best player on our team. Lol

Embiid is nowhere near top 20 in this year’s postseason let alone top 10.

Joker is the king…

As a MVP, Embiid should rank top 10 at least, if he was ranked top 10, we beat the Celtics. His efficiency is way down in the post season.

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[the_process]

Or we can finally go full Temple of Losers and do a Tobi, Maxey, and assets for KAT. Would probably be doing Minnesota a favor by taking on his massive contract.

That would be a fitting end to the Process Era.

Losers full circle.

[mjkvol]

You trade Embiid for picks and pieces and rebuild, simple as that. Right now you won't get a first option on offense to pair with Embiid, so makes no sense to keep trying to win with him.

who has picks and pieces that are also close enough to contention to want to trade for Biid?

The Heat (Bam and stuff... sure I guess but that team will be constantly in the playoff minimum so the picks won't be great). The Warriors (Poole or Klays terrible contract and Kuminga; again perennial playoff team too). The Suns (Ayton and the corpse of CP3 If you thinkl Biid is soft...just wait for Ayton...and they have no picks)?

As always people seem to forget that there are two sides to a trade... I just don't think the Gobert package is available and it will be our luck that we don't get any good prospects back and all the picks are trash while Biid and his new team goes further than before lol.

I am Mr. Draft Guy too so I'd be down for it..if only so we can talk about new **** but I don't see it

Am Embiid trade isn't happening, but if it did any team with interest is going to be a contender, which means we only get back youth / role players / picks. An Embiid trade means a total rebuild, and anyone with romantic notions about the Process need to realize that was something that will likely never happen again.

We aren't LA, NY, or Miami, where we can build up assets and get a superstar to sign here the way James did in LA. We are essentially OKC without a fan base with patience and Sam Presti. An Embiid trade very likely means a long time in the lottery desert unless we get really lucky.

Me? I'd fire Rivers and trade Harris, and run it back with a legitimate coach one time before pulling the plug.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

Lmao goodbye Doc, hello D’Antoni.

“Yes James, anything for you James.”
-Morey

[Bum Adebayo]

You trade Embiid for picks and pieces and rebuild, simple as that. Right now you won't get a first option on offense to pair with Embiid, so makes no sense to keep trying to win with him.

who has picks and pieces that are also close enough to contention to want to trade for Biid?

The Heat (Bam and stuff... sure I guess but that team will be constantly in the playoff minimum so the picks won't be great). The Warriors (Poole or Klays terrible contract and Kuminga; again perennial playoff team too). The Suns (Ayton and the corpse of CP3 If you thinkl Biid is soft...just wait for Ayton...and they have no picks)?

As always people seem to forget that there are two sides to a trade... I just don't think the Gobert package is available and it will be our luck that we don't get any good prospects back and all the picks are trash while Biid and his new team goes further than before lol.

I am Mr. Draft Guy too so I'd be down for it..if only so we can talk about new **** but I don't see it

Am Embiid trade isn't happening, but if it did any team with interest is going to be a contender, which means we only get back youth / role players / picks. An Embiid trade means a total rebuild, and anyone with romantic notions about the Process need to realize that was something that will likely never happen again.

We aren't LA, NY, or Miami, where we can build up assets and get a superstar to sign here the way James did in LA. We are essentially OKC without a fan base with patience and Sam Presti. An Embiid trade very likely means a long time in the lottery desert unless we get really lucky.

Me? I'd fire Rivers and trade Harris, and run it back with a legitimate coach one time before pulling the plug.

You can have a chance in the lottery with the picks Embiid neats you, and then by sucking in 1-2 seasons you get some decent pick in the 1-8 range, that will give you some chance at being a contender, with Embiid as your best player you'll never win anything, and we can't obtain a 1st option on offense with the assets we have. There is no winning path with Joel Embiid on this team as it stands, the time to trade him is now. It's just delaying the inevitable, and next year he will have less value than now, two years from now even less value.

[ProcessDoctor]

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Lmao goodbye Doc, hello D’Antoni.

“Yes James, anything for you James.”
-Morey

I mean, if I had to pick one, it'd be Harden easily. Morey is gonna get Harden on a discount, hire a new coach, and ship out Maxey for a 3rd star.

I just wish this was the summer Mitchell was on the table and not last...hard to find a worthy 3rd star to trade Maxey for. Has to be a 2 or 3 though. No point guard and no big.

[Jay555]

You trade Embiid for picks and pieces and rebuild, simple as that. Right now you won't get a first option on offense to pair with Embiid, so makes no sense to keep trying to win with him.

who has picks and pieces that are also close enough to contention to want to trade for Biid?

The Heat (Bam and stuff... sure I guess but that team will be constantly in the playoff minimum so the picks won't be great). The Warriors (Poole or Klays terrible contract and Kuminga; again perennial playoff team too). The Suns (Ayton and the corpse of CP3 If you thinkl Biid is soft...just wait for Ayton...and they have no picks)?

As always people seem to forget that there are two sides to a trade... I just don't think the Gobert package is available and it will be our luck that we don't get any good prospects back and all the picks are trash while Biid and his new team goes further than before lol.

I am Mr. Draft Guy too so I'd be down for it..if only so we can talk about new **** but I don't see it

Am Embiid trade isn't happening, but if it did any team with interest is going to be a contender, which means we only get back youth / role players / picks. An Embiid trade means a total rebuild, and anyone with romantic notions about the Process need to realize that was something that will likely never happen again.

We aren't LA, NY, or Miami, where we can build up assets and get a superstar to sign here the way James did in LA. We are essentially OKC without a fan base with patience and Sam Presti. An Embiid trade very likely means a long time in the lottery desert unless we get really lucky.

Me? I'd fire Rivers and trade Harris, and run it back with a legitimate coach one time before pulling the plug.

I agree with this approach. Tho we would need a new coach who can hold our players accountable Vs cuddling them.

[Negrodamus]

who has picks and pieces that are also close enough to contention to want to trade for Biid?

The Heat (Bam and stuff... sure I guess but that team will be constantly in the playoff minimum so the picks won't be great). The Warriors (Poole or Klays terrible contract and Kuminga; again perennial playoff team too). The Suns (Ayton and the corpse of CP3 If you thinkl Biid is soft...just wait for Ayton...and they have no picks)?

As always people seem to forget that there are two sides to a trade... I just don't think the Gobert package is available and it will be our luck that we don't get any good prospects back and all the picks are trash while Biid and his new team goes further than before lol.

I am Mr. Draft Guy too so I'd be down for it..if only so we can talk about new **** but I don't see it

Am Embiid trade isn't happening, but if it did any team with interest is going to be a contender, which means we only get back youth / role players / picks. An Embiid trade means a total rebuild, and anyone with romantic notions about the Process need to realize that was something that will likely never happen again.

We aren't LA, NY, or Miami, where we can build up assets and get a superstar to sign here the way James did in LA. We are essentially OKC without a fan base with patience and Sam Presti. An Embiid trade very likely means a long time in the lottery desert unless we get really lucky.

Me? I'd fire Rivers and trade Harris, and run it back with a legitimate coach one time before pulling the plug.

I agree with this approach. Tho we would need a new coach who can hold our players accountable Vs cuddling them.

Does Doc coddle them? I feel like he’s constantly talking **** about someone on this team.

[Ferry Avenue]

Where we go from here is no longer considering the nucleus of the team -- Embiid and Harden -- capable of playing in a way that gets the team past the second round.

Those players should now be viewed as in fact the ceiling on the franchise -- not as its primary fuel for winning a championship.

[Negrodamus]

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Lmao goodbye Doc, hello D’Antoni.

“Yes James, anything for you James.”
-Morey

I mean, if I had to pick one, it'd be Harden easily. Morey is gonna get Harden on a discount, hire a new coach, and ship out Maxey for a 3rd star.

I just wish this was the summer Mitchell was on the table and not last...hard to find a worthy 3rd star to trade Maxey for. Has to be a 2 or 3 though. No point guard and no big.

Harden at 38 making 30-some mil a year? That’s what the next contract will entail and I highly doubt Harden is doing ANOTHER discount. He probably views himself as a martyr for the last discount he gave.