Celtics @ Sixers - Preseason Game 2

[Wilfried]

Hayward is above average so is Horford Smart is a great defender Brown is average Morris is above avg. Baynes value comes from his defense Tatum will struggle on D just like Simmons and Fultz
I think we are longer from last year
Going from IT and Bradley to Kyrie and Brown was great in terms of Height and length
In addition while Bradley was a good man to man defender he was terrible at help D

So I think we will be average in terms of defense with a top 5 offense

Smart is great at hustle and effort, but people tend to mix effort for talent.
Markief Morris is an above average defender according to stats, but not Marcus.

Celtics' fans are always reffering to the loss of IT and Bradley.
But they forget they also lost Amir Johnson and Jae Crowder (and to be complete, Kelly Olynyk).

Those 3 are massive losses from a defensive and teamball standpoint. Maybe not so during regular season, but I foresee a big loss in depth and defense during play-offs.

Jaylen Brown is always regarded highly, but I'm not out on him. Nice hustle guy, athletic, effort, but as with Smart, people mix effort for talent. His rookie year was bad (although he had highlights). He still has a lot to prove.

Tatum, I like.

[LloydFree]

As of now, I prefer to start Fultz. That said, I think Jerryd Bayless is making a good case that he should start next to Redick in our backcourt.

Either Bayless or Amir Johnson will be starters, if not on opening night, at least by game 10. Brett Brown isn't going to watch two Rookies kick the ball around in the Starting lineup and sink his job the 1st month.

[Negrodamus]

As of now, I prefer to start Fultz. That said, I think Jerryd Bayless is making a good case that he should start next to Redick in our backcourt.

Either Bayless or Amir Johnson will be starters, if not on opening night, at least by game 10. Brett Brown isn't going to watch two Rookies kick the ball around in the Starting lineup and sink his job the 1st month.

Well, Embiid will likely start opening night. I do think Amir will start when Embiid isn't. I also think Fultz is Colangelo's baby. He will definitely start the season starting, but you could be on to something 10 games down the road.

[Wilfried]

As of now, I prefer to start Fultz. That said, I think Jerryd Bayless is making a good case that he should start next to Redick in our backcourt.

Either Bayless or Amir Johnson will be starters, if not on opening night, at least by game 10. Brett Brown isn't going to watch two Rookies kick the ball around in the Starting lineup and sink his job the 1st month.

Think Fultz will come off the bench too, after some time.

Bayless - Reddick - Covington - Simmons - Embiid should be our starting 5.

And if it's not successfull (enough) I can see Amir take over from Simmons too.

[GoCeltics123]

I don't make statements based on Pre-season games. I make them based on the construction of the rosters and the coaches. On talent, the Celtics are not better than Washington or Milwaukee. Brad Stevens gives you a chance to beat out Washington though, because he's a 10x better coach than Brooks.

How?
Kyrie and Hayward > Wall and Beal
Horford > Porter
Our bench is better and our coach is too

Kyrie << Giannis
Hayward > Middleton
Horford > Brogdan?
And we have the bench and coach advantage

So how are they better on paper?

Wall, Beal, Porter and Gortat are = to Kyrie, Hayward, Smart and Horford, IMO. Wall is a better player than Kyrie. The Wizards have continuity. The Celtics have the better coach.

Giannis >> Kyrie. Hayward > Middleton. Horford > Monroe. Brogdon, Snell and a healthy Parker are as good as anybody else the Celtics have. Horford's reputation is bigger than his actual performance. The Celtics are paying him 100 million to do slightly more than Greg Monroe.

Also Porter isn't in Horford's league either. Not even close. Horford was the Celtics' best player throughout the playoffs last year and Porter disappeared for 2 point-like games multiple times in the Hawks/Celtics series.

[LloydFree]

Hayward is above average so is Horford Smart is a great defender Brown is average Morris is above avg. Baynes value comes from his defense Tatum will struggle on D just like Simmons and Fultz
I think we are longer from last year
Going from IT and Bradley to Kyrie and Brown was great in terms of Height and length
In addition while Bradley was a good man to man defender he was terrible at help D

So I think we will be average in terms of defense with a top 5 offense

Smart is great at hustle and effort, but people tend to mix effort for talent.
Markief Morris is an above average defender according to stats, but not Marcus.

Celtics' fans are always reffering to the loss of IT and Bradley.
But they forget they also lost Amir Johnson and Jae Crowder (and to be complete, Kelly Olynyk).

Those 3 are massive losses from a defensive and teamball standpoint. Maybe not so during regular season, but I foresee a big loss in depth and defense during play-offs.

Jaylen Brown is always regarded highly, but I'm not out on him. Nice hustle guy, athletic, effort, but as with Smart, people mix effort for talent. His rookie year was bad (although he had highlights). He still has a lot to prove.

Tatum, I like.

With all due respect, I don't know what game you're watching if you can't see that Marcus Smart is a great (not good) defender. Sometimes you gotta put down Basketball reference and just watch a player work.

[Ericb5]

As of now, I prefer to start Fultz. That said, I think Jerryd Bayless is making a good case that he should start next to Redick in our backcourt.

Either Bayless or Amir Johnson will be starters, if not on opening night, at least by game 10. Brett Brown isn't going to watch two Rookies kick the ball around in the Starting lineup and sink his job the 1st month.

I think that Fultz would have to be pretty bad to not start. Bringing him off the bench is worse for his development because he needs to learn how to play off the ball with Simmons.

I think the starters should be

Covington
Simmons
Embiid
Redick
Fultz

That lineup needs to be given a lot more than 10 games before there are any changes, unless after 10 games Fultz is shooting 25% and averaging 5 points a game.

On games where Embiid doesn’t play then maybe Johnson starts those.


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[Ericb5]

How?
Kyrie and Hayward > Wall and Beal
Horford > Porter
Our bench is better and our coach is too

Kyrie << Giannis
Hayward > Middleton
Horford > Brogdan?
And we have the bench and coach advantage

So how are they better on paper?

Wall, Beal, Porter and Gortat are = to Kyrie, Hayward, Smart and Horford, IMO. Wall is a better player than Kyrie. The Wizards have continuity. The Celtics have the better coach.

Giannis >> Kyrie. Hayward > Middleton. Horford > Monroe. Brogdon, Snell and a healthy Parker are as good as anybody else the Celtics have. Horford's reputation is bigger than his actual performance. The Celtics are paying him 100 million to do slightly more than Greg Monroe.

Also Porter isn't in Horford's league either. Not even close. Horford was the Celtics' best player throughout the playoffs last year and Porter disappeared for 2 point-like games multiple times in the Hawks/Celtics series.

Porter and Horford are very different players, but if you polled the NBA as to which player teams would rather have I think that Porter would get at least half of the votes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wilfried]

Hayward is above average so is Horford Smart is a great defender Brown is average Morris is above avg. Baynes value comes from his defense Tatum will struggle on D just like Simmons and Fultz
I think we are longer from last year
Going from IT and Bradley to Kyrie and Brown was great in terms of Height and length
In addition while Bradley was a good man to man defender he was terrible at help D

So I think we will be average in terms of defense with a top 5 offense

Smart is great at hustle and effort, but people tend to mix effort for talent.
Markief Morris is an above average defender according to stats, but not Marcus.

Celtics' fans are always reffering to the loss of IT and Bradley.
But they forget they also lost Amir Johnson and Jae Crowder (and to be complete, Kelly Olynyk).

Those 3 are massive losses from a defensive and teamball standpoint. Maybe not so during regular season, but I foresee a big loss in depth and defense during play-offs.

Jaylen Brown is always regarded highly, but I'm not out on him. Nice hustle guy, athletic, effort, but as with Smart, people mix effort for talent. His rookie year was bad (although he had highlights). He still has a lot to prove.

Tatum, I like.

With all due respect, I don't know what game you're watching if you can't see that Marcus Smart is a great (not good) defender. Sometimes you gotta put down Basketball reference and just watch a player work.

I look at Real Plus minus and other stats to let me tell the value of player's D.
He was the 13th PG in DRPM last season, just above TJ McConnell.

He's a good defender, not a great.

I'm looking at stats because otherwise, I''m still proclaiming Samuel Dalembert as the best defensive big ever.
Or I can make a video of Jahlil Okafor as the next DPOY

[LloydFree]

How?
Kyrie and Hayward > Wall and Beal
Horford > Porter
Our bench is better and our coach is too

Kyrie << Giannis
Hayward > Middleton
Horford > Brogdan?
And we have the bench and coach advantage

So how are they better on paper?

Wall, Beal, Porter and Gortat are = to Kyrie, Hayward, Smart and Horford, IMO. Wall is a better player than Kyrie. The Wizards have continuity. The Celtics have the better coach.

Giannis >> Kyrie. Hayward > Middleton. Horford > Monroe. Brogdon, Snell and a healthy Parker are as good as anybody else the Celtics have. Horford's reputation is bigger than his actual performance. The Celtics are paying him 100 million to do slightly more than Greg Monroe.

Also Porter isn't in Horford's league either. Not even close. Horford was the Celtics' best player throughout the playoffs last year and Porter disappeared for 2 point-like games multiple times in the Hawks/Celtics series.

Horford ain't Sh anymore. I love that the Celtics used up their CAP space on Horford and Hayward. Brad Stevens turning in a Larry Brown like coaching performance with a bunch of role players have clouded people's thoughts. Horford isn't great. Hayward isn't great. Guys like Beal, and Middleton are just as good as them. And somewhere along the line an NBA starting Center/PF averaging 15 points and 6 Rebounds became a superstar.

[spikeslovechild]

Hayward is above average so is Horford Smart is a great defender Brown is average Morris is above avg. Baynes value comes from his defense Tatum will struggle on D just like Simmons and Fultz
I think we are longer from last year
Going from IT and Bradley to Kyrie and Brown was great in terms of Height and length
In addition while Bradley was a good man to man defender he was terrible at help D

So I think we will be average in terms of defense with a top 5 offense

Smart is great at hustle and effort, but people tend to mix effort for talent.
Markief Morris is an above average defender according to stats, but not Marcus.

Celtics' fans are always reffering to the loss of IT and Bradley.
But they forget they also lost Amir Johnson and Jae Crowder (and to be complete, Kelly Olynyk).

Those 3 are massive losses from a defensive and teamball standpoint. Maybe not so during regular season, but I foresee a big loss in depth and defense during play-offs.

Jaylen Brown is always regarded highly, but I'm not out on him. Nice hustle guy, athletic, effort, but as with Smart, people mix effort for talent. His rookie year was bad (although he had highlights). He still has a lot to prove.

Tatum, I like.

Yeah, if Smart showed the kind of shooting he did last night then it wouldn't even be a discussion point but the dude is the legit worst shot maker in the NBA and he couples that with taking a ton of shots relative to 3 and D players or slashers who can actually make shots.

I mean it's not hopeless his 3PT shot develops at somepoint and it's pretty hard just as a general rule to shoot as poorly as he has his entire career. All he has to be is sort of average as it relates to shooting to be a useful NBA player but average iseems so far away for Smart

[LloydFree]

As of now, I prefer to start Fultz. That said, I think Jerryd Bayless is making a good case that he should start next to Redick in our backcourt.

Either Bayless or Amir Johnson will be starters, if not on opening night, at least by game 10. Brett Brown isn't going to watch two Rookies kick the ball around in the Starting lineup and sink his job the 1st month.

Well, Embiid will likely start opening night. I do think Amir will start when Embiid isn't. I also think Fultz is Colangelo's baby. He will definitely start the season starting, but you could be on to something 10 games down the road.

Regardless of Fultz starting or not starting, Brown isn't going play Fultz the amount of minutes that some anticipate. That's why I bet you last week that he wouldn't come within two assists per game of Simmons. He won't get the minutes to do it. Brown (and even Colangelo) is not going to sit in front of sell-out crowds, with expectations, losing games with that kind of line-up. As is, the 76ers will have maybe the worst defensive back-court of any projected playoff team. But combine that with both your Primary ballhandlers being rookies... Naaw. Ain't happ'n.

[Baller1234a]

Hayward is above average so is Horford Smart is a great defender Brown is average Morris is above avg. Baynes value comes from his defense Tatum will struggle on D just like Simmons and Fultz
I think we are longer from last year
Going from IT and Bradley to Kyrie and Brown was great in terms of Height and length
In addition while Bradley was a good man to man defender he was terrible at help D

So I think we will be average in terms of defense with a top 5 offense

Smart is great at hustle and effort, but people tend to mix effort for talent.
Markief Morris is an above average defender according to stats, but not Marcus.

Celtics' fans are always reffering to the loss of IT and Bradley.
But they forget they also lost Amir Johnson and Jae Crowder (and to be complete, Kelly Olynyk).

Those 3 are massive losses from a defensive and teamball standpoint. Maybe not so during regular season, but I foresee a big loss in depth and defense during play-offs.

Jaylen Brown is always regarded highly, but I'm not out on him. Nice hustle guy, athletic, effort, but as with Smart, people mix effort for talent. His rookie year was bad (although he had highlights). He still has a lot to prove.

Tatum, I like.

Amir Johnson and KO are easily replaced by Baynes and Morris which is an upgrade
Hayward is a major upgrade from Crowder
Kyrie is a slight upgrade from IT
Internal development of Brown Rozier and Smart should cover up Bradley
Then add in Tatum wherever
And there you go

[Negrodamus]

Either Bayless or Amir Johnson will be starters, if not on opening night, at least by game 10. Brett Brown isn't going to watch two Rookies kick the ball around in the Starting lineup and sink his job the 1st month.

Well, Embiid will likely start opening night. I do think Amir will start when Embiid isn't. I also think Fultz is Colangelo's baby. He will definitely start the season starting, but you could be on to something 10 games down the road.

Regardless of Fultz starting or not starting, Brown isn't going play Fultz the amount of minutes that some anticipate. That's why I bet you last week that he wouldn't come within two assists per game of Simmons. He won't get the minutes to do it. Brown (and even Colangelo) is not going to sit in front of sell-out crowds, with expectations, losing games with that kind of line-up. As is, the 76ers will have maybe the worst defensive back-court of any projected playoff team. But combine that with both your Primary ballhandlers being rookies... Naaw. Ain't happ'n.

I actually think if he's coming off the bench, he's more likely to match Simmons's assists per game due to being the point guard when he's on the court. He'll play more like he did at Washington, for better or worse.

[Baller1234a]

Wall, Beal, Porter and Gortat are = to Kyrie, Hayward, Smart and Horford, IMO. Wall is a better player than Kyrie. The Wizards have continuity. The Celtics have the better coach.

Giannis >> Kyrie. Hayward > Middleton. Horford > Monroe. Brogdon, Snell and a healthy Parker are as good as anybody else the Celtics have. Horford's reputation is bigger than his actual performance. The Celtics are paying him 100 million to do slightly more than Greg Monroe.

Also Porter isn't in Horford's league either. Not even close. Horford was the Celtics' best player throughout the playoffs last year and Porter disappeared for 2 point-like games multiple times in the Hawks/Celtics series.

Horford ain't Sh anymore. I love that the Celtics used up their CAP space on Horford and Hayward. Brad Stevens turning in a Larry Brown like coaching performance with a bunch of role players have clouded people's thoughts. Horford isn't great. Hayward isn't great. Guys like Beal, and Middleton are just as good as them. And somewhere along the line an NBA starting Center/PF averaging 15 points and 6 Rebounds became a superstar.

Hayward last year made the All star team in the WEST and imo he’s a legit 2nd piece on a contender
Horford made everyone around him better check the shooting splits for IT AB and JC with him on vs off the court
There is a reason why AB JC IT all had career years

[spikeslovechild]

Hayward is above average so is Horford Smart is a great defender Brown is average Morris is above avg. Baynes value comes from his defense Tatum will struggle on D just like Simmons and Fultz
I think we are longer from last year
Going from IT and Bradley to Kyrie and Brown was great in terms of Height and length
In addition while Bradley was a good man to man defender he was terrible at help D

So I think we will be average in terms of defense with a top 5 offense

Smart is great at hustle and effort, but people tend to mix effort for talent.
Markief Morris is an above average defender according to stats, but not Marcus.

Celtics' fans are always reffering to the loss of IT and Bradley.
But they forget they also lost Amir Johnson and Jae Crowder (and to be complete, Kelly Olynyk).

Those 3 are massive losses from a defensive and teamball standpoint. Maybe not so during regular season, but I foresee a big loss in depth and defense during play-offs.

Jaylen Brown is always regarded highly, but I'm not out on him. Nice hustle guy, athletic, effort, but as with Smart, people mix effort for talent. His rookie year was bad (although he had highlights). He still has a lot to prove.

Tatum, I like.

Amir Johnson and KO are easily replaced by Baynes and Morris which is an upgrade
Hayward is a major upgrade from Crowder
Kyrie is a slight upgrade from IT
Internal development of Brown Rozier and Smart should cover up Bradley
Then add in Tatum wherever
And there you go

The Celtics haven't really improved and you can't just assume Brown, Rozier and Smart are going to develop. Also Baynes and Morris are nowhere close to to AJ and KO.

However, Celtics clearly have more top end talent and I suspect they'll trade for a guy to run their bench at the deadline as well as a rebounding defensive big. These guys aren't exactly hard to find. It's much harder to get the top end guys like Hayward and Irving. We all know this.

Just don't insult our intelligence regarding the rest of the roster.

[Baller1234a]

Smart is great at hustle and effort, but people tend to mix effort for talent.
Markief Morris is an above average defender according to stats, but not Marcus.

Celtics' fans are always reffering to the loss of IT and Bradley.
But they forget they also lost Amir Johnson and Jae Crowder (and to be complete, Kelly Olynyk).

Those 3 are massive losses from a defensive and teamball standpoint. Maybe not so during regular season, but I foresee a big loss in depth and defense during play-offs.

Jaylen Brown is always regarded highly, but I'm not out on him. Nice hustle guy, athletic, effort, but as with Smart, people mix effort for talent. His rookie year was bad (although he had highlights). He still has a lot to prove.

Tatum, I like.

Amir Johnson and KO are easily replaced by Baynes and Morris which is an upgrade
Hayward is a major upgrade from Crowder
Kyrie is a slight upgrade from IT
Internal development of Brown Rozier and Smart should cover up Bradley
Then add in Tatum wherever
And there you go

The Celtics haven't really improved and you can't just assume Brown, Rozier and Smart are going to develop. Also Baynes and Morris are nowhere close to to AJ and KO.

However, Celtics clearly have more top end talent and I suspect they'll trade for a guy to run their bench at the deadline as well as a rebounding defensive big. These guys aren't exactly hard to find. It's much harder to get the top end guys like Hayward and Irving. We all know this.

Just don't insult our intelligence regarding the rest of the roster.

I shouldn’t expect 3 guys under 25 to improve at all? And 2 of them were top 10 picks

[LloydFree]

Well, Embiid will likely start opening night. I do think Amir will start when Embiid isn't. I also think Fultz is Colangelo's baby. He will definitely start the season starting, but you could be on to something 10 games down the road.

Regardless of Fultz starting or not starting, Brown isn't going play Fultz the amount of minutes that some anticipate. That's why I bet you last week that he wouldn't come within two assists per game of Simmons. He won't get the minutes to do it. Brown (and even Colangelo) is not going to sit in front of sell-out crowds, with expectations, losing games with that kind of line-up. As is, the 76ers will have maybe the worst defensive back-court of any projected playoff team. But combine that with both your Primary ballhandlers being rookies... Naaw. Ain't happ'n.

I actually think if he's coming off the bench, he's more likely to match Simmons's assists per game due to being the point guard when he's on the court. He'll play more like he did at Washington, for better or worse.

See, I think he'll get even less opportunity to get assists off the bench, because I don't think he'll be running the point, even as a backup. I think TJ Mconnell will be the primary ballhandler when Simmons is off the court, and Fultz will be the secondary ballhandler to him, even off the bench.

[Negrodamus]

Regardless of Fultz starting or not starting, Brown isn't going play Fultz the amount of minutes that some anticipate. That's why I bet you last week that he wouldn't come within two assists per game of Simmons. He won't get the minutes to do it. Brown (and even Colangelo) is not going to sit in front of sell-out crowds, with expectations, losing games with that kind of line-up. As is, the 76ers will have maybe the worst defensive back-court of any projected playoff team. But combine that with both your Primary ballhandlers being rookies... Naaw. Ain't happ'n.

I actually think if he's coming off the bench, he's more likely to match Simmons's assists per game due to being the point guard when he's on the court. He'll play more like he did at Washington, for better or worse.

See, I think he'll get even less opportunity to get assists off the bench, because I don't think he'll be running the point, even as a backup. I think TJ Mconnell will be the primary ballhandler when Simmons is off the court, and Fultz will be the secondary ballhandler to him, even off the bench.

Yea, I disagree with that. Then we drafted an somewhat undersized shooting guard. Whether or not you believe that to be the case, which I'm sure you do, I don't anticipate our coaching staff or front office to see it that way. They will force the Fultz at primary guard as much as possible until he proves otherwise that he cannot do it.

To have Fultz come off the bench and be a spot up shooter would be one of the more head scratching decisions made by Sixers during this whole Process Era.

[spikeslovechild]

Amir Johnson and KO are easily replaced by Baynes and Morris which is an upgrade
Hayward is a major upgrade from Crowder
Kyrie is a slight upgrade from IT
Internal development of Brown Rozier and Smart should cover up Bradley
Then add in Tatum wherever
And there you go

The Celtics haven't really improved and you can't just assume Brown, Rozier and Smart are going to develop. Also Baynes and Morris are nowhere close to to AJ and KO.

However, Celtics clearly have more top end talent and I suspect they'll trade for a guy to run their bench at the deadline as well as a rebounding defensive big. These guys aren't exactly hard to find. It's much harder to get the top end guys like Hayward and Irving. We all know this.

Just don't insult our intelligence regarding the rest of the roster.

I shouldn’t expect 3 guys under 25 to improve at all? And 2 of them were top 10 picks

Nik Stauskas is under 25 and a top ten pick as well. Should we be expecting big things from him? Rozier is going on his 3rd year, Smart his 4th in the NBA.

They may improve some but expecting them to coverup the loss of Bradley seems like a reach don't you think?