Northern Expedition: Sixers @ Raptors Game 5

[AirP.]

The way I see it and this is just a hunch..

Ben doesnt want to defer in his role and change his game. That means he wants the ball in his hands. Not on jimmy’s. He wants to play with spot up shooters like dario and roco type players.

Even if he can shoot. He wouldnt want to give up the ball. You think he would? I dont think so.

He’s DNA is a facilitator. Not a scorer.

Right, but letting Butler walk(he may walk anyways) will really hurt this franchise. Keeping Butler and moving Simmons(and getting a good haul) could make this team much better then it is now.

The gamble, Embiid and his health, if it goes south the haul for Simmons will be your new future. Also, just throwing this out... Kyrie did mention Minnesota(because of his friendship with Butler) was a destination he wanted to be traded to from Cleveland, so it's possible Kyrie would still want to team up with Butler.

[76ciology]

Ben for Devin Booker, Mikal and their first.

[phifans]

Trade or no trade we lose in the 2nd round.

Now we burned all the rest of our assets and will be stuck with a bloated Harris contract.

So yes, it was super dumb.

We could win if Embiid and Simmons making progress like other young studs do.

EB bring Jimmy and Tobi here to help Biid and Ben because they thought their two young kings are ready to compete.

Then they find they were wrong.

It's ridiculous that a stacked championship contender handed over the keys to a novice like Elton Brand.

Get Masai or someone who knows what he's doing in there STAT.

EB getting robbed in Harris trade but he is not the reason if we lost evantually.

You can do nothing when Ben Simmons refused to make any progress and Joel Embiid decide to play like an ass in playoffs.

[James40]

Ben Simmons, trade ASAP.

Tobias Harris, not sure I’d give him a max. To be fair, he’s being exposed with Reddick, Embiid, and Simmons being useless.

Jimmy Butler, damn right I’d keep him, dude has a face for a totem pole, but he plays his ass off.

Reddick, if he isn’t hitting 3’s, he’s useless.

Embiid, I get he’s sick, but damn your dog didn’t get hit by a car. Everyone’s banged up come playoff time, Siakam included. Your body is going to be worn out, lose 15-20lbs for next season.

[James40]

I personally havent had a major illness in over 10 years.

LMAO XD sincerely thank you for this I needed the laugh tonight.

It’s like we’re at the Nexus of the universe, no one ripped Embiid more than me, but dude is sick, it’s kinda obvious.

[76ciology]

The way I see it and this is just a hunch..

Ben doesnt want to defer in his role and change his game. That means he wants the ball in his hands. Not on jimmy’s. He wants to play with spot up shooters like dario and roco type players.

Even if he can shoot. He wouldnt want to give up the ball. You think he would? I dont think so.

He’s DNA is a facilitator. Not a scorer.

Right, but letting Butler walk(he may walk anyways) will really hurt this franchise. Keeping Butler and moving Simmons(and getting a good haul) could make this team much better then it is now.

The gamble, Embiid and his health, if it goes south the haul for Simmons will be your new future. Also, just throwing this out... Kyrie did mention Minnesota(because of his friendship with Butler) was a destination he wanted to be traded to from Cleveland, so it's possible Kyrie would still want to team up with Butler.

Ive said it before. Sixers and Butler have mutual interest with one another that i dont see us letting Butler walk.

Tobias. Maybe if he wakes up to reality and accepts his limitation. But the kid is about to be on his peak so he’s gonna have some unrealistic beliefs

[Mik317]

i could see Tobias getting a deal early in the process while we try and strike out on other guys

[AirP.]

Ive said it before. Sixers and Butler have mutual interest with one another that i dont see us letting Butler walk.

Tobias. Maybe if he wakes up to reality and accepts his limitation. But the kid is about to be on his peak so he’s gonna have some unrealistic beliefs

I don't think it's about money since he believes/knows a max 4 contract will be out there for him from multiple teams, not sure how much a 5th year will really matter to him, yes it's a lot of money but him being unhappy in his last big contract may not be good for Butler or Philly.

It does seem Butler has bonded with Embiid and even understands he's #2 in the pecking order with Embiid(and Embiid seems to understand he needs a guy like Butler) but I don't see how those 2 work with Simmons. If Simmons has the ball then Butler is a glorified 3 & D guy, if Butler has the ball he has one less teammate to space the floor with Simmons on the court with him.

Butler may prioritize a team that's built on hard work and wanting Butler to be one of their main options instead of him having to alter his game like he's had to for Towns/Wiggins and now Embiid/Simmon.

[nrok10307]

I'm not going to panic over a blowout. We just had a blowout win of our own 2 games ago. We can still win this series. If we don't, we can be better next year.

If the ownership is willing to pay, I absolutely want to see 4 max contracts to Joel, Ben, Tobias, and Jimmy. (Although if possible I'd like to see Jimmy's contract at max annual salary but for only 4 years.) It's not my money, and we probably are not going to be luring anyone else here to take a max contract. If we aren't resigning these guys, then to even have the chance to go chase someone else we renounce our whole bench. If we do land another max, then our bench consists of the rookies we drafted, an MLE signee, and minimum contracts. Worse bench than it is now. If we don't get another max player then we don't have a big 3, much less a big 4.

One of three things are going to happen:

a) Ben, Jimmy, Joel, Tobias competing for the next 5 years as we continually adjust the bench around them. Legit title contenders for 3 of those years. The last 2 years, the contracts will probably be big overpays and we are mediocre, but that's the cost of having a few years of truly contending. (And if both Joel and Ben manage to raise their games to top 5 level, we'll compete despite Tobias and Jimmy's contracts not looking good near the end.)

b) Ben, Jimmy, and nobody else of note.

c) Ben, Jimmy, Wildcard Maxplayer (if we're lucky), and a worse bench than we have now

I choose option (a).

Giving out max contracts to non-max players is how you become perennial second round exits. EB has some tough decisions this summer that can have some long lasting consequences over the next 5 years.

[76ciology]

Ive said it before. Sixers and Butler have mutual interest with one another that i dont see us letting Butler walk.

Tobias. Maybe if he wakes up to reality and accepts his limitation. But the kid is about to be on his peak so he’s gonna have some unrealistic beliefs

I don't think it's about money since he believes/knows a max 4 contract will be out there for him from multiple teams, not sure how much a 5th year will really matter to him, yes it's a lot of money but him being unhappy in his last big contract may not be good for Butler or Philly.

It does seem Butler has bonded with Embiid and even understands he's #2 in the pecking order with Embiid(and Embiid seems to understand he needs a guy like Butler) but I don't see how those 2 work with Simmons. If Simmons has the ball then Butler is a glorified 3 & D guy, if Butler has the ball he has one less teammate to space the floor with Simmons on the court with him.

Butler may prioritize a team that's built on hard work and wanting Butler to be one of their main options instead of him having to alter his game like he's had to for Towns/Wiggins and now Embiid/Simmon.

I can see this team valuing Butler over Ben. Given they changed their mindset into win-now mode.

[James40]

Ive said it before. Sixers and Butler have mutual interest with one another that i dont see us letting Butler walk.

Tobias. Maybe if he wakes up to reality and accepts his limitation. But the kid is about to be on his peak so he’s gonna have some unrealistic beliefs

I don't think it's about money since he believes/knows a max 4 contract will be out there for him from multiple teams, not sure how much a 5th year will really matter to him, yes it's a lot of money but him being unhappy in his last big contract may not be good for Butler or Philly.

It does seem Butler has bonded with Embiid and even understands he's #2 in the pecking order with Embiid(and Embiid seems to understand he needs a guy like Butler) but I don't see how those 2 work with Simmons. If Simmons has the ball then Butler is a glorified 3 & D guy, if Butler has the ball he has one less teammate to space the floor with Simmons on the court with him.

Simmons can take the ball.... On another team, unless he was sick tonight as well. There is no excuse for how he played.

You did see Jimmy take the ball from him at the half court right? The third time is when BB took Simmons out when he didn’t even make an effort for a rebound.

Butler and Simmons may have a Butler- Town/Wiggins moment.

[76ciology]

I'm not going to panic over a blowout. We just had a blowout win of our own 2 games ago. We can still win this series. If we don't, we can be better next year.

If the ownership is willing to pay, I absolutely want to see 4 max contracts to Joel, Ben, Tobias, and Jimmy. (Although if possible I'd like to see Jimmy's contract at max annual salary but for only 4 years.) It's not my money, and we probably are not going to be luring anyone else here to take a max contract. If we aren't resigning these guys, then to even have the chance to go chase someone else we renounce our whole bench. If we do land another max, then our bench consists of the rookies we drafted, an MLE signee, and minimum contracts. Worse bench than it is now. If we don't get another max player then we don't have a big 3, much less a big 4.

One of three things are going to happen:

a) Ben, Jimmy, Joel, Tobias competing for the next 5 years as we continually adjust the bench around them. Legit title contenders for 3 of those years. The last 2 years, the contracts will probably be big overpays and we are mediocre, but that's the cost of having a few years of truly contending. (And if both Joel and Ben manage to raise their games to top 5 level, we'll compete despite Tobias and Jimmy's contracts not looking good near the end.)

b) Ben, Jimmy, and nobody else of note.

c) Ben, Jimmy, Wildcard Maxplayer (if we're lucky), and a worse bench than we have now

I choose option (a).

Giving out max contracts to non-max players is how you become perennial second round exits. EB has some tough decisions this summer that can have some long lasting consequences over the next 5 years.

I dont see Biid and Ben sticking with one another after next season. One has to go. There is just 0 chemistry

[FlyingArrow]

Giving out max contracts to non-max players is how you become perennial second round exits. EB has some tough decisions this summer that can have some long lasting consequences over the next 5 years.

Not if you're capped anyway and the ownership will pay the bill. If you are not a contender and you give a max contract to a non-max player, you're capped and you can't get a true max player. That's the situation that is normal throughout the league. True max players - probably no more than 20 or so. Others will get max money and force their teams into mediocrity. But if you already have a true max player (or 2... or 3), then you aren't going to get another one in free agency. What you can do is draft well, sign the occasional ring hunter to a minimum contract, use the MLE to get the best you can, and pay what is necessary to keep the best talent you have on your roster. This is the last year where we can choose whether to be capped or not... when we have to pay Ben we won't have a choice anymore. I laid out the 3 options above. We can go below the cap by renouncing everyone and maybe strike out chasing another max player. We either (a) "win" and get a max player+terrible bench or (b) we miss out and have just Ben+Joel+a decent bench. Or (c) the owners spend the big bucks and we are a capped team for the next 5 years but we legitimately compete for a championship for at least 3 of them.

[the_process]

Ben for Devin Booker, Mikal and their first.

PHX doesn't do that.

This FO should be kicking themselves hard for passing on trading Ben for Kawhi. Granted this is with 20/20 hindsight. Still.

[sixers hoops]

I'm not going to panic over a blowout. We just had a blowout win of our own 2 games ago. We can still win this series. If we don't, we can be better next year.

If the ownership is willing to pay, I absolutely want to see 4 max contracts to Joel, Ben, Tobias, and Jimmy. (Although if possible I'd like to see Jimmy's contract at max annual salary but for only 4 years.) It's not my money, and we probably are not going to be luring anyone else here to take a max contract. If we aren't resigning these guys, then to even have the chance to go chase someone else we renounce our whole bench. If we do land another max, then our bench consists of the rookies we drafted, an MLE signee, and minimum contracts. Worse bench than it is now. If we don't get another max player then we don't have a big 3, much less a big 4.

One of three things are going to happen:

a) Ben, Jimmy, Joel, Tobias competing for the next 5 years as we continually adjust the bench around them. Legit title contenders for 3 of those years. The last 2 years, the contracts will probably be big overpays and we are mediocre, but that's the cost of having a few years of truly contending. (And if both Joel and Ben manage to raise their games to top 5 level, we'll compete despite Tobias and Jimmy's contracts not looking good near the end.)

b) Ben, Jimmy, and nobody else of note.

c) Ben, Jimmy, Wildcard Maxplayer (if we're lucky), and a worse bench than we have now

I choose option (a).

Giving out max contracts to non-max players is how you become perennial second round exits. EB has some tough decisions this summer that can have some long lasting consequences over the next 5 years.

Right. I don’t care about Josh Harris’ money, and we will be over that cap so no use to preserve cap space; nevertheless, if this quadruplet doesn’t ultimately work, then you might have some immovable contracts.

Will Tobias at $32+ million be moveable if needed? Would his deal be comparable to the signing of Otto Porter, in that they would be paying big money to lock in a 3rd or 4th option?

I don’t know the answers, but I am definitely not comfortable giving him that contract.

[sixers hoops]

Giving out max contracts to non-max players is how you become perennial second round exits. EB has some tough decisions this summer that can have some long lasting consequences over the next 5 years.

Not if you're capped anyway and the ownership will pay the bill. If you are not a contender and you give a max contract to a non-max player, you're capped and you can't get a true max player. That's the situation that is normal throughout the league. True max players - probably no more than 20 or so. Others will get max money and force their teams into mediocrity. But if you already have a true max player (or 2... or 3), then you aren't going to get another one in free agency. What you can do is draft well, sign the occasional ring hunter to a minimum contract, use the MLE to get the best you can, and pay what is necessary to keep the best talent you have on your roster. This is the last year where we can choose whether to be capped or not... when we have to pay Ben we won't have a choice anymore. I laid out the 3 options above. We can go below the cap by renouncing everyone and maybe strike out chasing another max player. We either (a) "win" and get a max player+terrible bench or (b) we miss out and have just Ben+Joel+a decent bench. Or (c) the owners spend the big bucks and we are a capped team for the next 5 years but we legitimately compete for a championship for at least 3 of them.

How many true max players are you suggesting we have?

[FlyingArrow]

How many true max players are you suggesting we have?

Embiid. Ben if he learns to shoot. Jimmy but not for the duration of the contract. So that's... one and two halves?

Tobias is one of those guys that will kill your cap space if you aren't a contender and you give him a max contract. But if you are a contender and you don't, someone else will and then you don't have him anymore. Letting another team get on the treadmill doesn't help us win a championship.

[the_process]

Giving out max contracts to non-max players is how you become perennial second round exits. EB has some tough decisions this summer that can have some long lasting consequences over the next 5 years.

Not if you're capped anyway and the ownership will pay the bill. If you are not a contender and you give a max contract to a non-max player, you're capped and you can't get a true max player. That's the situation that is normal throughout the league. True max players - probably no more than 20 or so. Others will get max money and force their teams into mediocrity. But if you already have a true max player (or 2... or 3), then you aren't going to get another one in free agency. What you can do is draft well, sign the occasional ring hunter to a minimum contract, use the MLE to get the best you can, and pay what is necessary to keep the best talent you have on your roster. This is the last year where we can choose whether to be capped or not... when we have to pay Ben we won't have a choice anymore. I laid out the 3 options above. We can go below the cap by renouncing everyone and maybe strike out chasing another max player. We either (a) "win" and get a max player+terrible bench or (b) we miss out and have just Ben+Joel+a decent bench. Or (c) the owners spend the big bucks and we are a capped team for the next 5 years but we legitimately compete for a championship for at least 3 of them.

I think this is the part many take issue with. This team is not that close to true contention right now.

[sixers hoops]

How many true max players are you suggesting we have?

Embiid. Ben if he learns to shoot. Jimmy but not for the duration of the contract. So that's... one and two halves?

Tobias is one of those guys that will kill your cap space if you aren't a contender and you give him a max contract. But if you are a contender and you don't, someone else will and then you don't have him anymore. Letting another team get on the treadmill doesn't help us win a championship.

I hate using the max contract measurement since it is a CBA number for contracts, because some people associate it with the pay reserved for superstars.

But yeah, you lock Tobias in to a bad contract if you believe you have a championship core. Otto Porter was a bad signing since they didn’t have the core...right now I am not sure we have the core.

Ben did an okay job on Kawhi, but Kawhi scored 35+ four times, so nobody did a great job on him. This team would likely be more competitive right now with a Kemba type in place of Simmons, but we arent going to swap out a 22 year old all-star for an almost 30 year old.

I think they will keep trying to make this mix work.

[XDevilBoiX]

Im sad because i still believe we are the second most talented team in the league.

We built this team to make it to the finals. What prevent us in getting there was some unforseen sickness and lousy effort.

Luck really plays a big role in life.

Sixers are a paper tiger team