***Sixerfan1976 Official Thread - Update Page 28***

[Lou_23]

“There was a team that I talked to the last couple days and they said if they were going to pick a big in the second round it would be Allen” Dunphy said. “As it turned out they did pick a big but it wasn’t him. I was disappointed by that and then just thrilled.”

Maybe Sixers knew that some team liked Allen and had fear

[Skates]

I have no problem with players like this but Aaron Gray, Marc Gasol, Todd McCullough, Mehmet Okur (comparison on draft.net) were all second round picks. To think that a guy with Hawes skill set is the answer at center might leave us all pretty disappointed in a year or two.

Other than Aaron Gray those other guys all turned out to be solid to very good NBA players. McCullough was really coming into his own when the foot/leg ailment struck him down. Comparing their production to their draft position, Okur, Gasol and McCullough were all underdrafted. Successful undersized power forwards have been the other staple of second round success in recent years.

If Vucevic ends up in their range of NBA success (excluding Gray again) from the 16th pick in a week draft I'll be happy as hell. There are some similarities between Hawes adn Vucevic, but I really don't seee them as the same player. Early calls on next year's draft from Ford predicts a very deep, but center shallow draft.

It sounded like Stefanski and Collins both really liked the guy and that they studied him pretty intently. I'm okay with the pick.

I was really hoping Josh Selby might fall a spot or two farther down so we could grab him. He might have been able to replace Lou down the line. Allen does nothing for me, not a fan of low effort guys.

[P2K]

While I find it pretty unfathomable that Vucevic would have lasted to #36, it's clearly possible that Allen might not have been picked at all if Philly didn't. That said, there were only about 10 picks or so after Philly's, so it's not like they picked him in the early 2nd round. Regardless, as it relates to both Vucevic and Allen, where they would have been picked if Philly didn't grab them is 100% subjective and cannot be proven right or wrong.

Who cares though? They are Sixers now and no amount of bitching is going to change history. I am as skeptical as anyone as it relates to how good Vucevic will be at the next level, but I also read some reports from scouts that really thought he was far more impressive in person than they expected him to be. Watching an individual workout of him, he clearly has decent fundamentals and good hands. I fear that he'll be too slow to beat some of the better, more athletic centers out there, but if the entire FO and scouting staff loved this guy, they have had some success in the past and could get lucky again. At #16, you need to get pretty lucky anyway. My guess is that Vucevic will wind up being a good backup and situational starter in the league. My hope is that he is more. What else can you do at this point?

As fans, it is not our job to sit around with our thumbs up our backside. If we see obvious happenings going on with what the front office is doing, then it is our right to express these feelings, before or after the fact. This patience thing people preach or falling in line with the front office just because of a couple draft picks they got lucky on should not sit well with fans when their overall performance has been pretty bad. Not being proactive at all is a very bad trait to have. And on top of that, they have shown to miscalculate the handling of the roster. They shouldn't have picked Evan Turner last summer, especially when they didn't know what he was good at and how to use him on the court. The front office also doesn't know when to trade away assets towards a better roster. And I think their evaluation of talent should come into question. We'll see about Vuchevic and Allen, but to tell fans to stop being skeptical and also upset because we can't do anything about it is just...well, I could think of many words to use, but I'll just say I absolutely disagree. The FO of this franchise doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[Gsraider]

As fans, it is not our job to sit around with our thumbs up our backside. If we see obvious happenings going on with what the front office is doing, then it is our right to express these feelings, before or after the fact. This patience thing people preach or falling in line with the front office just because of a couple draft picks they got lucky on should not sit well with fans when their overall performance has been pretty bad. Not being proactive at all is a very bad trait to have. And on top of that, they have shown to miscalculate the handling of the roster. They shouldn't have picked Evan Turner last summer, especially when they didn't know what he was good at and how to use him on the court. The front office also doesn't know when to trade away assets towards a better roster. And I think their evaluation of talent should come into question. We'll see about Vuchevic and Allen, but to tell fans to stop being skeptical and also upset because we can't do anything about it is just...well, I could think of many words to use, but I'll just say I absolutely disagree. The FO of this franchise doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Wow. I can only say that I guess you didn't really read my post. The only real point was that the picks are in and they cannot be changed. Therefore, we can only hope that Vucevic in particular turns out to be a great pick. Even if all the fans who hated the picks are correct and both guys turn out to be busts, it won't change the fact that they were picked already and history cannot be re-written. I'm not suggesting you applaud the FO or even start the wave in support of these guys. I'm just suggesting that you hope the picks they made were the right ones because as a fan, aren't you hoping that's the case. I sure as hell said that I am as skeptical as anyone too.

[freshie2]

Again, this isn't my own personal evaluation of him (which was as a solid rebounding, liability on the perimeter defensively first or second big off the bench). This was me on the floor on draft night talking to numerous player agents and front office members. Obviously, somebody could have reached, but he was not nearly as high on any other draft board that he was on the Sixers.

If they had traded up to "make sure they got him" it would have been a brutal miscalculation.

You have more tape time and inside info, but I can't kill the pick...they needed to get bigger, and I was fine with Vucevic. Regardless of what was said, I can't imagine he would have lasted until 36. Knowing that Minnesota was moving #20, my original thought was they should look to acquire that pick, and take Moti @ 16 and Vucevic @ 20. Singleton would have made sense if they moved Iguodala, but those two (Moti/Vucevic) seemed to be the best available fits for how this team is being built and team needs.

[Do the Jrue]

I really think Vucevic is going to be a pretty good player. Dude can really shoot the ball and even though he can't get off the floor too well, he is more of an agile runner than people give him credit for. The only problem that I see is that this move sets the team up for more mediocrity. If he does turn out to be the solid starting center that I think he'll be this team will end up being like the Hawks. Good enough for a 4 or 5 seed every year then get bounced 2nd round of the playoffs. They've gotta take a risk but they're afraid. I think one thing that set them back is I don't think Stefanski has too many buddies around the league he could call to make a good trade with. Even Billy King probably has more connects than him. But Thorn has been around the league a long, long time so I atleast THINK he has a plan in place.

[Typeical]

Does anyone know Lavoy Allens measurement's?

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

People have even mentioned Aaron Gray as a comparison towards Vucevic. I don't think Aaron Gray was all that bad in the playoffs against the Lakers. I think he averaged double digit rebounds off the bench in that series against a pretty tough front line. If Vucevic can rebound well and hit a few shots for us and not back down from contact like Hawes does then he will have been well worth the 16th pick.
As for Lavoy Allen... I personally am fairly high on his game. If he makes the team I think he will realize he's fighting for a job and play with more heart, passion, intensity, etc, all the things people say he lacks.
What if...Just what if he can become a Carl Landry for us?
Better yet how we bout we sign Carl Landry???

In my personal opinion (which means nothing) the only other players I may have selected over Vucevic (at that spot) would have been maybe Jajuan Johnson or Chris Singleton. I think Vucevic was a good value pick for that spot. It's a gamble either way with him. He either sinks or swims in the NBA.
As for the second round pick who should we have gotten at 50 instead of Allen? I liked David Lighty and that was about it.

The only other thing we should have done was trade up in the draft. I really thought we were gonna get Derrick Williams from the TWolves.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Does anyone know Lavoy Allens measurement's?

[Kobblehead]

Because Lavoy Allen wasn't going to be drafted.

They probably could have gotten Vucevic at pick 36 and they could have gotten Lavoy Allen as an undrafted free agent. This draft was an unqualified disaster.

That's basically what I suspected. I made this comment on the night of the draft. Is it safe to say that the Sixers completely ignored the big board and the general concept of value and simply took players they were familiar with? If so, that is completely unacceptable from an experienced front office that supposedly knows what they're doing.

[corwin]

The heat will be on Rod Thorn pretty soon. To date, he has made the Green/Smith for Songalia/Brackens trade, signed Antonio Daniels as a FA when Lou was injured & participated in this draft. He won't catch much heat for this draft since little is expected of Vucevic this year. Still, that's a pretty slim record & inexcusable for a team stuck in mediocrity.

[blazehound]

all they need allen to do is get rebounds off the bench...dont see a reason to give an F to the number 50 pick...what better talent was out there?

Because Lavoy Allen wasn't going to be drafted.

They probably could have gotten Vucevic at pick 36 and they could have gotten Lavoy Allen as an undrafted free agent. This draft was an unqualified disaster.

Are you complaining about the 50th overall pick, & debating the value of drafting Allen there? If Allen was their guy, why potentially risk losing him by not taking him where they did? How the hell did you know he was going to be undrafted? Did you confirm this with GMs yourself? It's the 50th overall pick for crying out loud.

I have an extremely hard time believing Vuceviv would be available 18 picks from where they selected him. For such a terrible, I don't buy that for a second.

Your description that this was an unqualified disaster is absurd.

[766776]

In measurement and pre-draft workout Vucevic impressed many GM.
He is a legitimate 7-foot center but not 6-10 as expected,and i really like his shooting as a big man as well! (shoot more like a professional than Hawes)
I think thats why he rose from mid second round to mid first round.

[tk76]

Derek watched a bunch of film of Vucevic and concluded he will stink. I respect that and hope he will turn out to be wrong. And he'll be the first to admit that scouting is not an exact science and he has badly missed on a few calls in the past.

But not all scouts were as down on Vucevic as Derek and many at this board. Much of his high regard came from teams seeing him in workouts- which amateur/internet scouts have no access to. There were concerns based on his game film that decreased when teams saw him work out.

As for other posters who have not seen much of this kid play (and watching 3 USC games does not count as "scouting" IMO)... I believe a lot of people are down on Vucevic simply becasue he was not the type of player they wanted the Sixers to draft. They do not want a below the rim center who is not an intimidator- especially after watching Hawes. I did not want them to go that route either.

The thing is, that does not mean the guy will stink. he still could end up being a very good NBA center despite his limitation. Marc Gasol entered the league with bigger concerns about being "plodding" and turned out fine... I'm not saying Vucevic will be Marc Gasol- but it is too premature to say he will be a perimeter only soft role player like Hawes. It is just to early to give up on a guy simply becasue ghe was not the player you wanted, or even the type of player you wanted.

People should have learned from the Jrue/Lawson draft. A bunch of posters were down on Jrue's future partly out of frustration that the team passed on Lawson.

[Skates]

We followed the 'big board', whatever that is, last year, how did that work out? We would have all crucified the Sixers for taking Greg Monroe second, myself included, but right now it looks like the Pistons were the lucky ones to not move up last year.

Allen does seem like just tossing a bone to a local guy, but they seem to have scouted and worked out Vucevic a great deal. They could be wrong about him, but at least it sounds like they did their homework and went with their opinion of the best player/fit at 16. Whether it was the correct one remains to be seen. Other than Singleton, and to some extent Faried, most of the players that followed are very hit or miss and the Sixers might as well miss on a big man.

Faried and Singleton look like they will have long careers as role players who excel in a few areas. I would have liked either, but I'm not going to kill myself because they didn't get them. Motiejunas has talent and lacks heart, we already have that in Speights.

[Foshan]

Earlier in the process their was talk of a Monta/Iggy, but GS wanted to include Beidrins, and philly didn't want too. Seems like Hou wants Beirdrins, and has offered Hill/Thabeet. Obviously not a great package, but if they sweetened it even a little, I wonder if we could get a 3 team deal done?

GS gets: Iguodala / Noc
Hou gets: Biedrins
Phi gets: Ellis / Thabeet / Hill (maybe Patterson instead?)

Granted, IMO I really don't like Ellis here at all... but if our FO is stupid high on getting him, does this make it better or worse?

Jrue/LWill
Monta/Meeks
Turner/Young
Brand/Hill/Brackins
Hawes/V/Thabeet

[Koponen]

If they are intent on getting Monta, bringing back a former #2 pick with some shot-blocking ability would be nice. If they can throw in Patterson, who many believe is going to be a very good player, to study under Elton Brand, I'd be pretty happy. Obviously, I wouldn't expect anything from Thabeet, but at least there's a shot he turns into something, and in his rookie year he did block quite a few shots in the minutes he got. I don't like Young coming off the bench at SF, though.

[corwin]

Earlier in the process their was talk of a Monta/Iggy, but GS wanted to include Beidrins, and philly didn't want too. Seems like Hou wants Beirdrins, and has offered Hill/Thabeet. Obviously not a great package, but if they sweetened it even a little, I wonder if we could get a 3 team deal done?

GS gets: Iguodala / Noc
Hou gets: Biedrins
Phi gets: Ellis / Thabeet / Hill (maybe Patterson instead?)

Granted, IMO I really don't like Ellis here at all... but if our FO is stupid high on getting him, does this make it better or worse?

Jrue/LWill
Monta/Meeks
Turner/Young
Brand/Hill/Brackins
Hawes/V/Thabeet

You should put this up on the trade board since it works on the trade checker & seems to fit GS needs (not public statements), Houston's desire to get Biedrins & our need to move Iggy for scoring & size. Houston seems to need to consolidate players & Hill would definitely be the PF to be traded since Patterson has more years left on his RC.

[Foshan]

^ i just think Hou needs to throw in a fuzz more if they do Hill instead of Patterson... is the difference between the two a '12 2nd?

[Dan Verze]

I don't know. There was a rumor that the incentive in the Ellis for Iggy swap for GSW would be to dump Biedriens (e.g. with Nocioni), but they rejected Hill + Thabeet? I mean, the trade made by Foshan would be a steal for us IMO.