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Sixers, Cavs, Wolves.

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Final trade thoughts

Great deal
3
5%
Good deal
23
35%
Good deal, but I wanted more
18
27%
So so deal
11
17%
Bad deal
5
8%
This team is trying to destroy all meaning and make a mockery of the very fabric of the universe
6
9%
 
Total votes: 66

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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#481 » by BullyKing » Thu Aug 7, 2014 11:36 pm

Ramen Noodles wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Ramen Noodles wrote:
Thad gets underrated around here and people are overlooking the locker room presence aspect. Thad seems perfect for a trying to turn boys into men like the Wolves. And he's only 26, he's not really in his prime either and could have 7-10 more seasons in his tank. Bennet could be completely garbage here.


Locker room presence is overrated.


Have you ever been employed at a place where there's somebody that makes your job smoother?


By the same token, have you ever been employed at a place where there's somebody looking to leave it as soon as possible? Not great for morale either.
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the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#482 » by ckchen » Fri Aug 8, 2014 12:26 am

BullyKing wrote:Lets say that there are AT MOST, ten teams that (1) have cap space and (2) will use it for taking on contracts for picks rather than adding talent. So you've worked a potential deal out with one. How long do you think it takes to call or email the other 9 to see if they will beat the offer? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? You keep calling to make sure you are getting the best deal possible. It's not like when you are trading a player and a player is unique. Cap space is cap space. If someone is willing to give you say $5 million in cap space for a 1st round pick, then yes, you call someone else to see if they would take on $8 million in salary for the same pick.


It absolutely does not take 10 or 30 minutes. These are deals worth millions of dollars, and always involve players and picks. Every potential trade is analyzed by both sides to look at how it affects their cap space, how it affects the team, how it affects their future positioning, how it affects the other team, etc. Every player is analyzed. When someone makes a trade offer it is NOT fantasy basketball. Someone doesn't just go into the ESPN Trade Checker, look at their stats and contract length and say, "Yup! I'll do that!" or "I'll beat that offer!". I guarantee you that proposing trades and analyzing trade offers takes a lot of time and effort from both sides, involving lawyers, salary cap people, statistics analysis, doctors, team owners, money people, etc. You seem to think that GMs are just glorified fantasy basketball team owners. And I can also guarantee you that after all of the work is done to analyze and approve a trade offer (from both sides) GMs aren't just going to be like - you know what I'm going to do? Do this 9 more times, just to make sure I got the absolute best deal I possibly can. Because Top 10 protection on the pick is better than Top 11 protection. Or because $3.5M salary saved is better than $3.4M. I'm by no means saying that teams don't do their due diligence and explore other options, but there is no way every trade executed is evaluated against every trade partner, and IF IT IS, it sure as hell isn't done in 10-30 minutes. As if every GM is hanging around waiting 24/7 for a phone call and then making multi-million decisions while making their coffee.

It's also commonly accepted/understood that GMs have better relationships with other front offices. Which is why people keep jumping at the chance at Daryl Morey will work out a deal with Sam Hinkie. When they made that Royce White/Furkan Aldemir deal - do you honestly believe that Morey was out there calling every other GM in the league just to make sure he got the best deal? This works for and against you. Some GMs have a bad reputation, and people don't want to deal with them. Either way, business relationships absolutely factor in when you're talking about trades. You absolutely cannot assume that every deal is going past Hinkie's desk. Maybe BK and Danny Ainge are best friends. Maybe they golf on the weekends. Maybe Billy King hates Hinkie. Who knows? But these are all things that can and do happen, and why your assumption that somehow every deal that happens that we aren't involved in is somehow Hinkie dropping the ball doesn't make sense.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#483 » by BullyKing » Fri Aug 8, 2014 12:34 am

You continually misrepresent what I'm saying (i.e., 11th vs. 10th pick protection, 3.5 vs. 3.4 million) so there's really no point in continuing this. We can agree to disagree on whether a GM looking to dump a contract would call Hinkie before finalizing any other deal. If teams are not calling him in those situations, then it is probably because he is disliked which is a different problem.

I'm really tired of this discussion because it seems like I am anti-Hinkie. I absolutely love Hinkie and support the tank 100%. This is the one example where I disagree with him and think he might be overvaluing cap space.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#484 » by ckchen » Fri Aug 8, 2014 12:46 am

BullyKing wrote:You continually misrepresent what I'm saying (i.e., 11th vs. 10th pick protection, 3.5 vs. 3.4 million) so there's really no point in continuing this. We can agree to disagree on whether a GM looking to dump a contract would call Hinkie before finalizing any other deal. If teams are not calling him in those situations, then it is probably because he is disliked which is a different problem.

I'm really tired of this discussion because it seems like I am anti-Hinkie. I absolutely love Hinkie and support the tank 100%. This is the one example where I disagree with him and think he might be overvaluing cap space.


Just because I'm using random hyperbolized examples to make my point doesn't mean I'm misrepresenting what you're saying. I'm just trying to drive my point home. I could say it in a few simple sentences.

1. Personal relationships between front office personalities absolutely affect how and who they do business with.
2. Trade offers, even for salary cap "dumps" require a lot of work to analyze and trade agreements are not completed in short periods of time.
3. Every deal that is made is not a missed opportunity because every deal made probably does not go by Hinkie's desk.

I'm not saying that there haven't been missed opportunities. I think we all know that Jeremy Lin deal was almost definitely offered. Maybe Hinkie overvalued it. Maybe the Lakers just made a better offer that Hinkie wasn't willing to match/beat. If it's your opinion that we should've made that deal (or beat it with a better offer) - sure I get it. But I'm just saying that you can't assume that just because there are deals happening that involve cap space (e.g., Thornton, or last year's GSW-UTH deal) that somehow Hinkie was involved and somehow missed the chance to consummate a trade because he's overvaluing his position. Because it's more than possible that he may never have had an opportunity to get involved.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#485 » by LongLiveHinkie » Fri Aug 8, 2014 1:57 am

I'll admit, I will be disappointed if this doesn't go down. I know we don't know what's going on behind the scenes or if Hinkie is even interested in Bennett, but c'mon. We have cap room and an asset to trade. Can't come out of the summer with nothing but our draft.

I'll trust Hinkie though, but not 100% blindly. No one has that kinda pass.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#486 » by The Sixer Fixer » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:24 am

Not sure if this was posted yet or not, but I wonder if it's accurate....

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/497456399840858113[/tweet]
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#487 » by marcush » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:31 am

Happy that Thad is staying. I know that is irrational because he will either leave for nothing at years end or be traded for a 2nd rounder at the deadline. I just don't like Bennett, how often do low motor bigs work out? If you compared the 2 players, I would have thought that Thad was more a 'Hinkie type' anyway. Wouldn't be surprised if Thad came out shooting the 3 at a nice clip and had a sneaky improvement.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#488 » by ckchen » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:32 am

Westbrook36 wrote:I'll admit, I will be disappointed if this doesn't go down. I know we don't know what's going on behind the scenes or if Hinkie is even interested in Bennett, but c'mon. We have cap room and an asset to trade. Can't come out of the summer with nothing but our draft.

I'll trust Hinkie though, but not 100% blindly. No one has that kinda pass.


There's nothing to be done if the Twolves decide that they would rather keep Bennett. You say you would be disappointed - but I'm sure you also wouldn't want to offer anything more than just Young either.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#489 » by Ericb5 » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:36 am

bigdavid wrote:I believe Hinke doesn't have the balls to pull the trigger on these big deals. All he keeps worrying about is draft picks, Draft picks don't play, players do. We might wind up with 30million bucks and no winning players or a winning team.

Having been born in Philly and living nearby, Philly fans will not keep supporting a loosing team. If the fans stop coming all will be lost It will be hard to get fans back in the seats.

All the Hinkie lovers will find a way to explain his position, but I believe you need a combo of picks and trades to make a winner. The Spurs might be one of the few exceptions...


Dude. Like it or hate it, if there is one thing that Hinkie has proven at this point it is that he has balls. The Jrue trade, the Hawes and turner bold tanking trades, the Embiid pick, the stare down with the Payton for Saric trade. This dude has balls of brass and there is NO denying that, even if you don't like his moves.


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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#490 » by marcush » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:37 am

The Sixer Fixer wrote:Not sure if this was posted yet or not, but I wonder if it's accurate....

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/497456399840858113[/tweet]

Interesting. IIRC one of their beat grunts was refuting the Bennett for Thad story a couple of days ago, I just don't recall if it was the aptly named Wolfson.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#491 » by Ericb5 » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:40 am

Westbrook36 wrote:Dei Lynam thinks trading Thad for Bennett isn't enough for the Sixers and a lot of teams out there would love to have Thad.

C'mon, Dei....


I have always liked Dei Lynam as a sideline reporter. I think that she is great at that. However, since when did she become a basketball analyst? All of a sudden she is writing columns and reporting things, and I think that she is out of her depth.

Who cares what she thinks?




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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#492 » by freshie2 » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:41 am

BullyKing wrote:
Ramen Noodles wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Locker room presence is overrated.


Have you ever been employed at a place where there's somebody that makes your job smoother?


By the same token, have you ever been employed at a place where there's somebody looking to leave it as soon as possible? Not great for morale either.


Is there anything to the notion that Thad wants out? I don't think it is as sure a decision as is being promoted.

People are underestimating the value of a locker room presence...it isn't everything, but it can be the piece that holds a roster back from being great, or conversely makes a team relevant.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#493 » by The Sixer Fixer » Fri Aug 8, 2014 2:51 am

freshie2 wrote:
Is there anything to the notion that Thad wants out? I don't think it is as sure a decision as is being promoted.

People are underestimating the value of a locker room presence...it isn't everything, but it can be the piece that holds a roster back from being great, or conversely makes a team relevant.


I think the report last year that he wants out is true. Apparently he and his agent submitted a trade request to Hinkie. It was a supposed leak from someone close to Thad (likely the agent himself). It supposedly was due to him not being on board with tanking. Seeing as how the Sixers are obviously tanking again this year, I'd expect Thad wants out more than ever.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#494 » by LongLiveHinkie » Fri Aug 8, 2014 3:12 am

ckchen wrote:
Westbrook36 wrote:I'll admit, I will be disappointed if this doesn't go down. I know we don't know what's going on behind the scenes or if Hinkie is even interested in Bennett, but c'mon. We have cap room and an asset to trade. Can't come out of the summer with nothing but our draft.

I'll trust Hinkie though, but not 100% blindly. No one has that kinda pass.


There's nothing to be done if the Twolves decide that they would rather keep Bennett. You say you would be disappointed - but I'm sure you also wouldn't want to offer anything more than just Young either.


If that's the case, fine, but we don't know either way. Until I know that for sure.....
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#495 » by 76ers 2020 » Fri Aug 8, 2014 6:20 am

BullyKing wrote:I'm really tired of this discussion because it seems like I am anti-Hinkie. I absolutely love Hinkie and support the tank 100%. This is the one example where I disagree with him and think he might be overvaluing cap space.


Owners might not want him using that space. They are on the right path but it still means a lot of empty seats this upcoming season.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#496 » by 76ciology » Fri Aug 8, 2014 6:50 am

76ers 2020 wrote:
BullyKing wrote:I'm really tired of this discussion because it seems like I am anti-Hinkie. I absolutely love Hinkie and support the tank 100%. This is the one example where I disagree with him and think he might be overvaluing cap space.


Owners might not want him using that space. They are on the right path but it still means a lot of empty seats this upcoming season.


The ownership has factored in this scenario when they decide to go full rebuild. Yes, it will hurt financially for the short term. But for the long term, I'm sure their rewards will outweigh their loss. And FWIW, I think we'd be a much much talented team next season with Embiid and 2015 lotto. I wouldn't be suprise (not saying it's a guarantee) that we can have the talent to compete for the play-offs next season. And I read a post saying, there wasn't that much decrease in attendance.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#497 » by Foshan » Fri Aug 8, 2014 7:02 am

I'd be pretty curious to see what the revenue difference was in one of our treadmill 8th seed seasons, verses last seasons or this seasons tank-a-season.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#498 » by marcush » Fri Aug 8, 2014 9:52 am

76ers 2020 wrote:
BullyKing wrote:I'm really tired of this discussion because it seems like I am anti-Hinkie. I absolutely love Hinkie and support the tank 100%. This is the one example where I disagree with him and think he might be overvaluing cap space.


Owners might not want him using that space. They are on the right path but it still means a lot of empty seats this upcoming season.

Not sure the cap space means a lot to the owners as it is mandatory for them to pay out 90 percent of the salary cap, so really it is a sunk cost. The empty seats is another issue though, not sure how long they can or want to absorb that.
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#499 » by Cokeleaf » Fri Aug 8, 2014 10:21 am

Reports of beliefs the Wolves are looking to shed salaries of Barea, Mbah, and Shved. Sounds silly unless it's to be able to sign a player. Thaddeus?

All this empty speculation is frustrating lol
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Re: Sixers, Cavs, Wolves. 

Post#500 » by HartfordWhalers » Fri Aug 8, 2014 12:10 pm

Foshan wrote:I'd be pretty curious to see what the revenue difference was in one of our treadmill 8th seed seasons, verses last seasons or this seasons tank-a-season.



http://www.forbes.com/teams/philadelphia-76ers/

Looks like its at most a 10m drop. Really expected more, however the Sixers gate is only 27m, and other revenue streams are locked in long term so that makes sense. Seats per game drop ~3k.

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