Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[zimpy27]

New favourite Philly return: Simmons for FVV and LeVert. Pretty much a perfect fit for the weaknesses in the last playoffs.

FVV, Maxey, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Curry, Thybulle, LeVert, Reed, Drummond


Indy get Simmons+Boucher for Sabonis+LeVert+Lamb
Brogdon, Holiday, Warren, Simmons, Turner -- McConnell, Duarte, Oshae, Boucher, Goga

Raptors get Sabonis+Lamb for FVV+Boucher
Flynn, Trent, OG, Siakam, Sabonis -- Dragic, Lamb, Barnes, Achiuwa, Birch

[76ciology]

Why not just go with an average player and projected lottery pick(s)?

Wiggins and Kuminga for Ben still on the table?

[Embiid P]

Those Minnesota deals don't make any sense, not win now, not win later and not close to enough to trade for another star. Beasley is damaged goods and not the kind of guy you want in your locker room, or even your city. If you let the T'Wolves keep all of KAT, Edwards and DLo it damages the value of the picks. I'd rather he just not report than become Elton Brand and take that kind of trash. Teams are lowballing now after the Simmons cry for being saved from having to play in front fans and everyone else that has stood up for and protected him for so long. We have Morey for a reason and it is not to trade Simmons for a return that isn't even as good as Brett Brown could get for him. Everybody is posturing at this point. Don't cave.

The picks are the best we can do for Simmons at this point. If he sits out, it's only going to further tank what little value he has left. He and Paul have basically forced Morey's hand to trade him now. Harris isn't going to waste $33 million on a player that is going to sit out the entire season.

Let's say that you are Portland which is a perennial treadmill team and Dame eventually makes it clear that he wants out to go to a contender. Would you rather take back picks/young prospects or a known liability on offense like Simmons?

Stars are rarely traded for anything other than high end prospects and picks. I don't expect it to be any different when Dame, Beal, etc. are eventually traded from their respective teams whether it be during this year's trade deadline or after.

IMO it's worth semi-tanking the regular season until a disgruntled star inevitably becomes available in a trade.

[Roy The Natural]

Those Minnesota deals don't make any sense, not win now, not win later and not close to enough to trade for another star. Beasley is damaged goods and not the kind of guy you want in your locker room, or even your city. If you let the T'Wolves keep all of KAT, Edwards and DLo it damages the value of the picks. I'd rather he just not report than become Elton Brand and take that kind of trash. Teams are lowballing now after the Simmons cry for being saved from having to play in front fans and everyone else that has stood up for and protected him for so long. We have Morey for a reason and it is not to trade Simmons for a return that isn't even as good as Brett Brown could get for him. Everybody is posturing at this point. Don't cave.

The picks are the best we can do for Simmons at this point. If he sits out, it's only going to further tank what little value he has left. He and Paul have basically forced Morey's hand to trade him now. Harris isn't going to waste $33 million on a player that is going to sit out the entire season.

Let's say that you are Portland which is a perennial treadmill team and Dame eventually makes it clear that he wants out to go to a contender. Would you rather take back picks/young prospects or a known liability on offense like Simmons?

Stars are rarely traded for anything other than high end prospects and picks. I don't expect it to be any different when Dame, Beal, etc. are eventually traded from their respective teams whether it be during this year's trade deadline or after.

IMO it's worth semi-tanking the regular season until a disgruntled star inevitably becomes available in a trade.

The pushback here is... let's say Dame has another bigtime season this year... even better than his last season. Blazers flounder in the playoffs and he wants out. Let's say that Wiseman and Kaminga+ picks were the assets returned for Simmons. Let's say that Wiseman still sucks and Kaminga struggles to look good his first season. The Warriors pick sucks.... and looks like the picks will suck for a while. I'd argue you're WAAAAYYYY further away from an appealing package than with Simmons as the centerpiece.

You MUST account for the MASSIVE risk of extraordinarily young players not panning out, or struggling. And the potential volatility of adding a player like Simmons to a team raising their regular season record enough to hurt the pick values. There's a MASSIVE risk in the notion of acquiring a bunch of extremely volatile assets in return for a somewhat stable one. The major chance that the risk doesn't pay off turns the 76ers situation from dubious, but hopeful, to utter disaster very quickly.

[Skates]

And all summer Aaron Rodgers was forcing the Green Bay Packers hands, you know, until he didn't and couldn't.

[76ciology]

Think of getting a top tier star in a spectrum of low risk to high risk assets.

Dame and Harden are low risk. You know both guys are top tier stars.

If we can’t keep Ben and we need to trade him before the season starts, I think we need to take high risk bets like high upside rookies like Barnes, Wiseman or Kuminga or projected lottery picks (kings or wolves pick).

I think that the worst return is someone who we can just get via a mid first rounder and some time to develop like Lavert, Brogdon or FVV.

Expensive = established top tier stars

Average value with realistic chance to be top tier = high upside unestablished players or lotto pick

Cheap because low chance to be top tier = mediocre players

[syntax]

Why not just go with an average player and projected lottery pick(s)?

Wiggins and Kuminga for Ben still on the table?

Chances of GSW in the lottery? They finished 8th with Steph injured and no Klay. There is no chance of GSW not making the playoffs this season IMO.

[stormi]

Ben with Steph and Klay...

Add a VVS'd out Larry O themed ring to Ben's pinky for 2022.

[Village Idiot]

Let's say that you are Portland which is a perennial treadmill team and Dame eventually makes it clear that he wants out to go to a contender.

Portland has made the playoffs for a league leading 8 years. That is not a treadmill, that is success which has seemingly plateaued. A treadmill is a team like Indiana that goes in and out of the lottery and playoffs every other year. Never bad enough to get a star, never good enough to compete.

The past four years (prior to that Philly was still in the process while Portland was winning) the Trailblazers and Sixers have had similar playoff success and failures.

2017-18 both teams finished third in the standings. Philly made the second round and were knocked out by Miami while Portland got their asses handed to them by the Pelicans in round 1.

2018-19 again both teams finished third in their conferences. Philly got knocked out of the second round while Portland made it to the conference finals

2019-20 - both teams knocked out of the first round. Portland struggled with injuries all season and had to win the play-in to get into the playoffs

2020-21 - Philly had a great regular season, won the first round and then collapsed against the Hawks while Portland disappointed against the Nuggets in the first round

so these two teams have been pretty similar the past four years. It's not like the Sixers have been vastly better. If Portland is a treadmill team is Philadelphia also a treadmill team?

[cool93]

Let's say that you are Portland which is a perennial treadmill team and Dame eventually makes it clear that he wants out to go to a contender.

Portland has made the playoffs for a league leading 8 years. That is not a treadmill, that is success which has seemingly plateaued. A treadmill is a team like Indiana that goes in and out of the lottery and playoffs every other year. Never bad enough to get a star, never good enough to compete.

The past four years (prior to that Philly was still in the process while Portland was winning) the Trailblazers and Sixers have had similar playoff success and failures.

2017-18 both teams finished third in the standings. Philly made the second round and were knocked out by Miami while Portland got their asses handed to them by the Pelicans in round 1.

2018-19 again both teams finished third in their conferences. Philly got knocked out of the second round while Portland made it to the conference finals

2019-20 - both teams knocked out of the first round. Portland struggled with injuries all season and had to win the play-in to get into the playoffs

2020-21 - Philly had a great regular season, won the first round and then collapsed against the Hawks while Portland disappointed against the Nuggets in the first round

so these two teams have been pretty similar the past four years. It's not like the Sixers have been vastly better. If Portland is a treadmill team is Philadelphia also a treadmill team?

Yes

Sent from my G3416 using RealGM mobile app

[sixers4real]

Does Portland has any 1st round picks? I’d trade Simmons for CJ + 2 1rd picks

Embiid/Drummond/Bassey
Harris/Niang/Reed
Green/Thybulle/Korkmaz
CJ/Curry/Joe
Maxey/Milton/Springer

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I did some digging into Malik Beasley last night because I'm preparing myself for this idiot to be on our team at this point. I didn't research his skills or court game. I went into other stuff. The aftermath of the gun stuff, jail time, etc. People can and do make terrible mistakes in life. He's also a young man and young guys don't exactly think the clearest a lot of the time. I'm not sure if his interviews were an attempt to clean up his image/perception around the basketball world, but I just wasn't buying it. If he's scared straight, then good for him, but I don't know.
I'm no longer in the camp that will refuse to watch this team if we do add him, but I have my doubts about him as a person. He's extremely talented on the floor, but a JR Smith level idiot off of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm fully preparing myself for him to be a Sixer.

[rzzzzz]

Re-assign him to Delaware. Keep him on the bench there until he develops basic skills.

[BNelley24]

I never bought into the notion that Ben Simmons was the key to any deal for a star.

A) First of all what rebuilding team wants to take on a player on a 4 year max type deal who can’t shoot

B) Simmons would hurt a rebuilding team’s draft position

C) just look at last season, Brooklyn was able to acquire James Harden without giving up a star.

Morey’s goal with Ben should be to make a trade that helps us acquire as many assets as possible that can be used in futur trade for a star.

We can restock the cupboard while staying competitive enough for like a 4-5 seed. Then we wait for a star to be available

[GutUNC]

A lot of people have been saying the Sixers should call Simmons' bluff and not trade him.

The thing is, the Sixers already lost. It's over. There is no reasonable circumstance Simmons' value rises at this point.

First of all, all GMs in the league who have soured on Simmons know with him it's about the playoffs, not the regular season. They're going to want to see him dominate a playoff series to change their opinion on him. So keeping him til the deadline makes that impossible.

But do people really think going into the season with a pouty, disgruntled Ben Simmons is going to raise his value? The first home game, the fans are going to rain boos down on him in player introductions. The odds that he plays better after having shown how mentally fragile he is already are slim. There's a chance he could be mopey and pouting all season. And if he has a blowup with Doc Rivers on the sidelines, forget it.

Absolute best case scenario(least likely): he comes in motivated to prove doubters wrong, but that still won't ease GMs minds around the league as the regular season has never been the issue with Simmons.

Baseline: he comes into the season and plays like he normally does, and his value doesn't change.

Worst case scenario: he comes into the season unmotivated and unhappy, his play declines, things get contentious, and then instead of getting a guy like McCollum, his value drops even more and you're stuck having to take back a guy like Wiggins.

I just can't see a realistic scenario they wait and get what they want for him.

If he does that, his value will go up from where it currently sits.

How do you figure that?

Because right now he's valued as a malcontent who may not be willing to play and when he last did he looked like a shell of himself. If he plays and does what's he's done every regular season he looks better, but still well short of the value he held 12 months ago.

[Samson]

If it's really going to be those nobodies from MIN, 4 1st Rd picks and pick swaps, I would want them unprotected (because you never know what can happen...) I would hate for them to find Ben ruins their locker room, they absolutely suck, and wind up keeping their premium pick(s) and we wind up with cheddarjack shiznit.

But I'd love for him to learn the lesson of Be Careful What You Wish For and freezes his balls off while being the last option in Minnesota.

But i was really hoping for Fox and all those picks and swaps, guess i shall go pound some sand.

[Stanford]

Ben ruins their locker room

Unfortunately this is not possible. Ben is not assertive enough to ruin anything.

[ConstableChaos]

Simmons at 4 and Towns at 5 or Harris at 4 and Joel at 5?

[51X3RF4N]

I did some digging into Malik Beasley last night because I'm preparing myself for this idiot to be on our team at this point. I didn't research his skills or court game. I went into other stuff. The aftermath of the gun stuff, jail time, etc. People can and do make terrible mistakes in life. He's also a young man and young guys don't exactly think the clearest a lot of the time. I'm not sure if his interviews were an attempt to clean up his image/perception around the basketball world, but I just wasn't buying it. If he's scared straight, then good for him, but I don't know.
I'm no longer in the camp that will refuse to watch this team if we do add him, but I have my doubts about him as a person. He's extremely talented on the floor, but a JR Smith level idiot off of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm fully preparing myself for him to be a Sixer.

So my brain went to the same place, and I did look at on the court stuff. He's a legit very good fit for this team, but his agent is Rich Paul I believe. So that makes me think he won't be headed to Philly.

However, he could head to LAC in a Simmons deal.

The target we should be looking at is Luke Kennard. Send them Shake Milton and Beasley for Kennard.

Kennard is also a great fit for this team. 6'5 SG out of Duke who has some handles, some playmaking, maybe a little more diverse on offense and defense than Seth. Signed for 4 years on a reasonable deal. Former teammate of Andre Drummond. Very efficient shooter.

I would also try to work a 5 team deal, flipping Taureen Prince to Toronto for Goran Dragic. He wants out, and they'd save some money while still acquiring an expiring contract that is even easier to trade later if they want. Flip Dragic, Bassey and some picks to Indy for Malcolm Brodgon.

Simmons to Minny
Prince to Toronto
Beasley and Shake to LAC
Dragic, Bassey, picks to Indy
Kennard, Brogdon, McDaniels, picks to Philly

Embiid/Drummond/Reed
Harris/Niang/McDaniels
Green/Thybulle/Korkmaz
Curry/Kennard/Joe
Brogdon/Maxey/Springer

That team is 10 or 11 deep in the playoffs. With a chance to consolidate at the deadline to bring in a 3rd star if one gets disgruntled because you'd have Brogdon to match salary, Minny picks, 2 Jadens and a Maxey all to throw at a team like Portland.


Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[the_process]

I did some digging into Malik Beasley last night because I'm preparing myself for this idiot to be on our team at this point. I didn't research his skills or court game. I went into other stuff. The aftermath of the gun stuff, jail time, etc. People can and do make terrible mistakes in life. He's also a young man and young guys don't exactly think the clearest a lot of the time. I'm not sure if his interviews were an attempt to clean up his image/perception around the basketball world, but I just wasn't buying it. If he's scared straight, then good for him, but I don't know.
I'm no longer in the camp that will refuse to watch this team if we do add him, but I have my doubts about him as a person. He's extremely talented on the floor, but a JR Smith level idiot off of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm fully preparing myself for him to be a Sixer.

God I hope Beasley isn’t here.