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Joel Embiid

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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#501 » by Winejk » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:52 pm

elchengue20 wrote:Love Jojo and i think hes playing his best basketball ever.

Still im not sold on his ability to take over in crunch time. He relies way too much on drawing fouls and also tends to play a bit outta control. Plus, post ups are the easier plays to double and recover without giving up wide open shots.

We are still lacking that perimeter star shot creator and closer who can take over in the clutch and make his life easier.


And Harden doesn't rely heavily on drawing fouls and playing out of control?

Agreed that post ups are easier ways to double and recover, but recently Doc Rivers unlocked Joel setting up in the middle or even bringing the ball up. Teams haven't figured out how to double Joel when he's at the free throw line yet, and Joel has been feasting on it.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#502 » by Bum Adebayo » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:05 am

It is important to note that there is something different this season though.
The main problem in Embiid's game before this season has been over reliance on getting to the line, and we all know in regular season this is much easier thanks to Mickey Mouse defensive rules.
While it may seem that this is still the case, there is a huge difference, and that is eFG%. Embiid is simply miles ahead in terms of eficiency this season when you remove Free Throws from the equation.
.508
.514
.517
.512
.583
What remains to be seen is if this is due to small sample size or the improvement is real, but this is one of the stats that demonstrates greatness the most. it doesn't rely on Mickey Mouse rules.
But this is why I said the other day that Embiid's development is already a success, I was waiting for real improvement and this is clearly it.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#503 » by Bum Adebayo » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:13 am

Moreover, we can see a clear correlation:
.508 Brett Brown
.514 Brett Brown
.517 Brett Brown
.512 Brett Brown
.583 Doc Rivers

Many still laugh at the idea that Brett was to blame for most of our struggles. Well, stats don't lie.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#504 » by Monix » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:13 am

real improvement is how he deals with double teams in the playoffs - can't be a turnover machine like years past

I do like that this staff is getting him the ball in the middle of the floor more often, hopefully will help his vision/decision making
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#505 » by 6ers83 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:14 am

Getting a lot of talk for MVP. Of course very early obviously.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#506 » by Winejk » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:28 am

Bum Adebayo wrote:It is important to note that there is something different this season though.
The main problem in Embiid's game before this season has been over reliance on getting to the line, and we all know in regular season this is much easier thanks to Mickey Mouse defensive rules.
While it may seem that this is still the case, there is a huge difference, and that is eFG%. Embiid is simply miles ahead in terms of eficiency this season when you remove Free Throws from the equation.
.508
.514
.517
.512
.583
What remains to be seen is if this is due to small sample size or the improvement is real, but this is one of the stats that demonstrates greatness the most. it doesn't rely on Mickey Mouse rules.
But this is why I said the other day that Embiid's development is already a success, I was waiting for real improvement and this is clearly it.


To me Embiid's increased efficiency is a combination of a handful of things:

1) Embiid's Improvement - He's been aggressive, he's shooting better from all over (post, midrange and threes), he's not as turnover prone, he's in shape and moving better...I think his attitude/mentality has changed too. You can see it in his eyes now...he knows he's the baddest player on the court and he acts like it. He is willing the Sixers to victory and just taking over games.

2) Roster Construction - Danny Green and Seth Curry are infinitely better for this team than Richardson/Horford. Embiid is playing pick your poison with the opponents. If opponents double Embiid, Embiid will kick it out and eventually through ball movement a good shot opportunity is the result. If opponents don't double, then Embiid will go to work and score or get to the free throw line. Embiid couldn't play this way last season because Richardson and Horford didn't have the same gravity as Green and Curry.

3) Coaching - I'm sure we'll find warts with Doc Rivers eventually (probably after first playoff loss), but Rivers has been so much better than Brett Brown. He's putting Embiid and the whole team in a much better place to succeed with his schemes and plays than previously. IMO, it is still honeymoon stage, but Doc has been pushing all the right buttons. Before injuries and covid took effect, the beginning of the season was such beautiful basketball by the Sixers. Granted it was against mostly a weak schedule, but aesthetically it was some of the best ball the Sixers have played in a long, long time. I wonder how much of it is Rivers or is it Joerger. Either way it doesn't matter right now because it is working.

The Sixers still haven't been really tested this season. Wins against Miami and Boston were against depleted teams. Let's see what happens when the Sixers play some tough competition at full strength for both teams. If Embiid is still playing like MVP at that point, we should all be happy.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#507 » by Dnt hate » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:15 am

Embiid is so underrated by non sixers fans
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#508 » by stormi » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:25 am

Dnt hate wrote:Embiid is so underrated by non sixers fans


He has to blow up an important playoff series with big #'s before he gets the respect he deserves.

And he was dominant against the Raps in 2019 impact wise, but the casual fan & TNT hosts that drive the narratives don't care about stuff like on/off rates and rim protection.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#509 » by Iverson Armband » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:11 am

Winejk wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:Love Jojo and i think hes playing his best basketball ever.

Still im not sold on his ability to take over in crunch time. He relies way too much on drawing fouls and also tends to play a bit outta control. Plus, post ups are the easier plays to double and recover without giving up wide open shots.

We are still lacking that perimeter star shot creator and closer who can take over in the clutch and make his life easier.


And Harden doesn't rely heavily on drawing fouls and playing out of control?

Agreed that post ups are easier ways to double and recover, but recently Doc Rivers unlocked Joel setting up in the middle or even bringing the ball up. Teams haven't figured out how to double Joel when he's at the free throw line yet, and Joel has been feasting on it.

Please don’t try to compare Joel Embiid to James Harden when it comes to getting buckets in crunch time. That’s no slight on Joel, he is awesome and can’t help that he’s a 7ft center, but Harden is on another level and creating offense as a perimeter player in today’s NBA is a different story.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#510 » by 76ciology » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:23 am

Biggest difference maker on offense?

Definitely, better shooter.
More advanced eurostep/footwork.
Doc’s coaching on post plays
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#511 » by TNBT » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:32 am

Hey guys, I’m a Chicago and Philly sports fan so I’ve been loving what we have see, from Embiid. Dude is just a flat out beast. I think at this point he has to be close to, if not leading, the MVP race.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#512 » by TNBT » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:39 am

Winejk wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:Love Jojo and i think hes playing his best basketball ever.

Still im not sold on his ability to take over in crunch time. He relies way too much on drawing fouls and also tends to play a bit outta control. Plus, post ups are the easier plays to double and recover without giving up wide open shots.

We are still lacking that perimeter star shot creator and closer who can take over in the clutch and make his life easier.


And Harden doesn't rely heavily on drawing fouls and playing out of control?

Agreed that post ups are easier ways to double and recover, but recently Doc Rivers unlocked Joel setting up in the middle or even bringing the ball up. Teams haven't figured out how to double Joel when he's at the free throw line yet, and Joel has been feasting on it.



Exactly, it’s not like drawing fouls is a negative thing. In fact, it’s quite a skill to be able to do it. As for it being easier to double the post than the perimeter, that’s where guys like Seth Curry and Danny Green are such important additions. If you’re in crunch time and you have those two out there with Tobias Harris, and Embiid in the post, who are you leaving open to go double Embiid?
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#513 » by kriss73 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:00 am

Ok, big fella's neck needs a little rest now.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#514 » by Kova » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:16 pm

Joel is playing at the MVP level. Period. 38 points on 15 shots. If he can keep this consistency and stay healthy, and we are 1st seed, I don't see how he doesn't win it.

Giannis is not at an MVP level this season. Nets cancel each other out. Lebron could be a threat, but I'm not sure his numbers will be as high.
Warriors will not have enough wins (for Steph to enter contention). Kawhi could miss a lot of games with load management.

I don't see anyone else being a legitimate treat right now, to be honest.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#515 » by mithrandir17 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:31 pm

Kova wrote:Joel is playing at the MVP level. Period. 38 points on 15 shots. If he can keep this consistency and stay healthy, and we are 1st seed, I don't see how he doesn't win it.

Giannis is not at an MVP level this season. Nets cancel each other out. Lebron could be a threat, but I'm not sure his numbers will be as high.
Warriors will not have enough wins (for Steph to enter contention). Kawhi could miss a lot of games with load management.

I don't see anyone else being a legitimate treat right now, to be honest.

The only other contender right now is Jokic. Averaging a triple double as a center will be his calling card. It will come down as to which team has a better season overall between the Nuggets and Sixers. Plus if Jokic wins the MVP, Joel will not even get the 1st All nba team because only 1 center will get it.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#516 » by youngcrev » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:48 pm

mithrandir17 wrote:
Kova wrote:Joel is playing at the MVP level. Period. 38 points on 15 shots. If he can keep this consistency and stay healthy, and we are 1st seed, I don't see how he doesn't win it.

Giannis is not at an MVP level this season. Nets cancel each other out. Lebron could be a threat, but I'm not sure his numbers will be as high.
Warriors will not have enough wins (for Steph to enter contention). Kawhi could miss a lot of games with load management.

I don't see anyone else being a legitimate treat right now, to be honest.

The only other contender right now is Jokic. Averaging a triple double as a center will be his calling card. It will come down as to which team has a better season overall between the Nuggets and Sixers. Plus if Jokic wins the MVP, Joel will not even get the 1st All nba team because only 1 center will get it.


Just like everyone keeps saying, this is a centers league now, and the guard position is dead (I think that's how it goes?)
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#517 » by Bum Adebayo » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:58 pm

It was always a dumb premise (being a guards league), the whole thing is cyclic, it depends on what position talent is at.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#518 » by kriss73 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:15 pm

mmmm...not sure. The evolution of the the game matters. Style of play too.

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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#519 » by Kova » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:30 pm

mithrandir17 wrote:
Kova wrote:Joel is playing at the MVP level. Period. 38 points on 15 shots. If he can keep this consistency and stay healthy, and we are 1st seed, I don't see how he doesn't win it.

Giannis is not at an MVP level this season. Nets cancel each other out. Lebron could be a threat, but I'm not sure his numbers will be as high.
Warriors will not have enough wins (for Steph to enter contention). Kawhi could miss a lot of games with load management.

I don't see anyone else being a legitimate treat right now, to be honest.

The only other contender right now is Jokic. Averaging a triple double as a center will be his calling card. It will come down as to which team has a better season overall between the Nuggets and Sixers. Plus if Jokic wins the MVP, Joel will not even get the 1st All nba team because only 1 center will get it.



You are right! Totally forgot about Jokic. He is great this season. However, I don't think Denver has a top 3 record in the West, which is advantage Joel.
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Re: Joel Embiid 

Post#520 » by youngcrev » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:33 pm

elchengue20 wrote:Love Jojo and i think hes playing his best basketball ever.

Still im not sold on his ability to take over in crunch time. He relies way too much on drawing fouls and also tends to play a bit outta control. Plus, post ups are the easier plays to double and recover without giving up wide open shots.

We are still lacking that perimeter star shot creator and closer who can take over in the clutch and make his life easier.


It's definitely easier to double the post, though he's handling those doubles far better than he ever has in terms of knowing when to attack and when to kick it to his shooters. And with how the team is swinging the ball out of those doubles it's leading to a ton of open 3s on the weak side. Doc's got them playing simple basketball, taking what the defense gives them when Jo can't make a play for himself, and they've got the personnel to take advantage this year. Good offense is good offense, no matter if it's in the final 3 minutes or the first 3.

If all you mean by in the clutch are the rare, time dependent situations (need a quick bucket or a time running out situation), you're probably putting the ball in the hands of Tobias or Shake, though Jo facing up at the elbow is also a viable option.

As for the foul dependency, drawing fouls is certainly a huge part of his game and if the refs are eating their whistle it's a problem, but he's also shooting 58% on his post ups right now. It's not like he's completely reliant on it.

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