Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

[Zumramania]

Ben ruins their locker room

Unfortunately this is not possible. Ben is not assertive enough to ruin anything.

Yeah, he is more into whining, but this was enough to drive Butler out of town and to make him the one and only PG without even a decent sub, although he is a PF. But these are the Sixers and other teams might not be that receptive to whining.

[Negrodamus]

I do think that MIN would be a nice useful idiot to give us a Paul George yield for Ben so the three amigos can underperform, but I definitely feel we’d need a third team to send us help immediately rather than waste Embiids season(s). I’d still be aiming for LaVine or Beal if MIN wants to forfeit their future.

[GutUNC]

Let's say that you are Portland which is a perennial treadmill team and Dame eventually makes it clear that he wants out to go to a contender.

Portland has made the playoffs for a league leading 8 years. That is not a treadmill, that is success which has seemingly plateaued. A treadmill is a team like Indiana that goes in and out of the lottery and playoffs every other year. Never bad enough to get a star, never good enough to compete.

The past four years (prior to that Philly was still in the process while Portland was winning) the Trailblazers and Sixers have had similar playoff success and failures.

2017-18 both teams finished third in the standings. Philly made the second round and were knocked out by Miami while Portland got their asses handed to them by the Pelicans in round 1.

2018-19 again both teams finished third in their conferences. Philly got knocked out of the second round while Portland made it to the conference finals

2019-20 - both teams knocked out of the first round. Portland struggled with injuries all season and had to win the play-in to get into the playoffs

2020-21 - Philly had a great regular season, won the first round and then collapsed against the Hawks while Portland disappointed against the Nuggets in the first round

so these two teams have been pretty similar the past four years. It's not like the Sixers have been vastly better. If Portland is a treadmill team is Philadelphia also a treadmill team?

Maybe it's semantics but I have treadmill relating more to having legit championship aspirations. Sixers were a legit contender in 2019-20 with Butler and were quasi-contenders last year as a 1-seed before Simmons' mental break. But yes, the playoff results are roughly similar.

[Village Idiot]

Does Portland has any 1st round picks? I’d trade Simmons for CJ + 2 1rd picks

Yes and no. The conditions on the pick given to Chicago as part of the Nance trade was that it is lottery protected until 2028 so any picks would have to be very vaguely defined or Portland, Philadelphia and Chicago would have to agree to something.

CJ and RoCo for Simmons and another player (Green/Curry/Kormaz/Thybulle/Maxey) is probably the best offer you can expect from Portland

[Sportfan73]

Does Portland has any 1st round picks? I’d trade Simmons for CJ + 2 1rd picks

Yes and no. The conditions on the pick given to Chicago as part of the Nance trade was that it is lottery protected until 2028 so any picks would have to be very vaguely defined or Portland, Philadelphia and Chicago would have to agree to something.

CJ and RoCo for Simmons and another player (Green/Curry/Kormaz/Thybulle/Maxey) is probably the best offer you can expect from Portland

That other player would have to be Shake. And I would consider it at this point compared to some of these deals. I think they could figure out a way to get a 2025 first in the deal somehow.

[Sportfan73]

I’m all for a CJ deal at this point. As long as we can get a 2025 first. That sets us up well still for a trade for a star. Green, Curry, Maxey, Thybulle, and 4 firsts would be our new godfather offer. That’s definitely enough for like Lavine if it came to it. Green is expiring and currys contract+ on court stuff is amazing to send to a third team for another pick in a deal

[jbent87]

so my new fear is that not only is Simmons controversial/enigmatic enough on his own considering his fatal flaw that he has, but the way this offseason has unfolded so far with the Nerlens story first, and then the Maxey hostage situation that has since been walked back, teams are now more reluctant than ever to deal with a Rich Paul associated client. Which hurts our leverage even more.

This could get really freaking ugly, in terms of compensation.

[Lovetron Joe]

so my new fear is that not only is Simmons controversial/enigmatic enough on his own considering his fatal flaw that he has, but the way this offseason has unfolded so far with the Nerlens story first, and then the Maxey hostage situation that has since been walked back, teams are now more reluctant than ever to deal with a Rich Paul associated client. Which hurts our leverage even more.

This could get really freaking ugly, in terms of compensation.

Then he stays, learns how to shoot foul shots and they rehab his image. The Embiid tweets were step one.

This is equivalent to the Eagles and Zach Ertz.

[GutUNC]

I’m all for a CJ deal at this point. As long as we can get a 2025 first. That sets us up well still for a trade for a star. Green, Curry, Maxey, Thybulle, and 4 firsts would be our new godfather offer. That’s definitely enough for like Lavine if it came to it. Green is expiring and currys contract+ on court stuff is amazing to send to a third team for another pick in a deal

That team is locked in to a non-contending 4/5 seed for the rest of eternity, imo. And that's assuming Embiid doesn't die after the relentless parade of players streaking downhill to the rim at full speed with no resistance.

[Negrodamus]

I’m all for a CJ deal at this point. As long as we can get a 2025 first. That sets us up well still for a trade for a star. Green, Curry, Maxey, Thybulle, and 4 firsts would be our new godfather offer. That’s definitely enough for like Lavine if it came to it. Green is expiring and currys contract+ on court stuff is amazing to send to a third team for another pick in a deal

I actually am not against CJ either. I would think Portland would be interested in that since if they aren't winning championships, they'll at least have a massive favorite for MVP with Damian Lillard needing to fill the scoring vacuum that CJ leaves. Could be a 35+ ppg scorer especially with an excellent passing PF in Simmons.

[Rastas]

I’m all for a CJ deal at this point. As long as we can get a 2025 first. That sets us up well still for a trade for a star. Green, Curry, Maxey, Thybulle, and 4 firsts would be our new godfather offer. That’s definitely enough for like Lavine if it came to it. Green is expiring and currys contract+ on court stuff is amazing to send to a third team for another pick in a deal

I actually am not against CJ either. I would think Portland would be interested in that since if they aren't winning championships, they'll at least have a massive favorite for MVP with Damian Lillard needing to fill the scoring vacuum that CJ leaves. Could be a 35+ ppg scorer especially with an excellent passing PF in Simmons.

Ssshhhhh don't hint to all about what has appeared obvious all along.
Dame want's to partner up with the Happy to Pass Big not the 40% usage I'm going to Dominate Big.

[Negrodamus]

I’m all for a CJ deal at this point. As long as we can get a 2025 first. That sets us up well still for a trade for a star. Green, Curry, Maxey, Thybulle, and 4 firsts would be our new godfather offer. That’s definitely enough for like Lavine if it came to it. Green is expiring and currys contract+ on court stuff is amazing to send to a third team for another pick in a deal

I actually am not against CJ either. I would think Portland would be interested in that since if they aren't winning championships, they'll at least have a massive favorite for MVP with Damian Lillard needing to fill the scoring vacuum that CJ leaves. Could be a 35+ ppg scorer especially with an excellent passing PF in Simmons.

Ssshhhhh don't hint to all about what has appeared obvious all along.
Dame want's to partner up with the Happy to Pass Big not the 40% usage I'm going to Dominate Big.

I can promise you that CJ McCollum would have an absolute blast playing with a big that demands a double or triple team every time while being the #1 perimeter option for once.

[76ciology]

Why not just go with an average player and projected lottery pick(s)?

Wiggins and Kuminga for Ben still on the table?

Chances of GSW in the lottery? They finished 8th with Steph injured and no Klay. There is no chance of GSW not making the playoffs this season IMO.

Oh i mean two separate things. A trade with other teams with lottery pick and a trade with warriors including kuminga and wiggins

[Rastas]

I actually am not against CJ either. I would think Portland would be interested in that since if they aren't winning championships, they'll at least have a massive favorite for MVP with Damian Lillard needing to fill the scoring vacuum that CJ leaves. Could be a 35+ ppg scorer especially with an excellent passing PF in Simmons.

Ssshhhhh don't hint to all about what has appeared obvious all along.
Dame want's to partner up with the Happy to Pass Big not the 40% usage I'm going to Dominate Big.

I can promise you that CJ McCollum would have an absolute blast playing with a big that demands a double or triple team every time while being the #1 perimeter option for once.

I agree on that also - would love to see him anywhere as a no1 offensive guard

[Negrodamus]

I think McCollum turning 30 in like 11 days makes his value a little less than Ben, tbh. I'd agree with whoever said it above, the trade should be Ben for CJ + future first. Their impact for each team is remarkably close and the contracts are fairly similar, so it feels close to a fair trade except for the age discrepancy: both the "second star" that have their holes on one end of the floor.

Now, the hypothetical value on a new team might be a different conversation. I think the ceiling is higher for CJ to go absolutely nuts, offensively, on the Sixers. However, running a Lillard-Powell-Simmons-Cov-Nurkic with Nance replacing Nurkic in small ball situations would be pretty lethal. Lots of defense and switch-ability. Presumably Ben would be able to take some pressure off Lillard to get others open shots.

I think the perceived value of Ben should be much higher (if we traded him a year ago), but this is definitely a fair trade in my mind.

[Sportfan73]

I think McCollum turning 30 in like 11 days makes his value a little less than Ben, tbh. I'd agree with whoever said it above, the trade should be Ben for CJ + future first. Their impact for each team is remarkably close and the contracts are fairly similar, so it feels close to a fair trade except for the age discrepancy: both the "second star" that have their holes on one end of the floor.

Now, the hypothetical value on a new team might be a different conversation. I think the ceiling is higher for CJ to go absolutely nuts, offensively, on the Sixers. However, running a Lillard-Powell-Simmons-Cov-Nurkic with Nance replacing Nurkic in small ball situations would be pretty lethal. Lots of defense and switch-ability. Presumably Ben would be able to take some pressure off Lillard to get others open shots.

I think the perceived value of Ben should be much higher (if we traded him a year ago), but this is definitely a fair trade in my mind.

Another reason I’m coming back to it is Portland is probably the only other team besides us that’s desperate to make a splash, so if we are looking for a fair or adequate deal they may just be the best option. I would either want 2 unprotected firsts or Cov and a first

[Waynearchetype]

As a Portland fan(one somewhat grounded in reality that we are likely losing lillard eventually) I think philly ought to go for CJ + a 2024 FRP with very very light protections (maybe 1-3 to be realistic, i doubt they'd do a full unprotected). I think in the event Dame asks out (which is likely next season) all of a sudden you have an asset that the Blazers would probably want a lot which might make up for some lost leverage in not having Simmons any longer.

It gets complicated because CHI would need to agree to change the protections on this years pick owed to them (which extends out to 2028...), but I'm sure something could be reached.

Throw in a Maxey/Covington swap and that would help cover some lost defense.

[jpatrick]

I think McCollum turning 30 in like 11 days makes his value a little less than Ben, tbh. I'd agree with whoever said it above, the trade should be Ben for CJ + future first. Their impact for each team is remarkably close and the contracts are fairly similar, so it feels close to a fair trade except for the age discrepancy: both the "second star" that have their holes on one end of the floor.

Now, the hypothetical value on a new team might be a different conversation. I think the ceiling is higher for CJ to go absolutely nuts, offensively, on the Sixers. However, running a Lillard-Powell-Simmons-Cov-Nurkic with Nance replacing Nurkic in small ball situations would be pretty lethal. Lots of defense and switch-ability. Presumably Ben would be able to take some pressure off Lillard to get others open shots.

I think the perceived value of Ben should be much higher (if we traded him a year ago), but this is definitely a fair trade in my mind.

Another reason I’m coming back to it is Portland is probably the only other team besides us that’s desperate to make a splash, so if we are looking for a fair or adequate deal they may just be the best option. I would either want 2 unprotected firsts or Cov and a first

Portland’s Nance trade makes this more difficult, as it’s protected through 2028 so they currently can’t trade a first. They’d essentially have to go to Chicago and make that pick unprotected so they can trade another pick. Conversely, they have to say the picks to Philly would convey two years after the pick to Chicago gets conveyed. Not impossible but some risks because can only trade picks up to six league years into the future I think. (2028?).

[Waynearchetype]

Portland’s Nance trade makes this more difficult, as it’s protected through 2028 so they currently can’t trade a first. They’d essentially have to go to Chicago and make that pick unprotected so they can trade another pick. Conversely, they have to say the picks to Philly would convey two years after the pick to Chicago gets conveyed. Not impossible but some risks because can only trade picks up to six league years into the future I think. (2028?).

Usually you toss the team a 2nd and they'll remove the protections.

[KramerDSP]

We better get 4 firsts and 3 swaps with two of these firsts being very lightly protected at best if Beasley et al is coming back.