Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

[Mik317]

Fox plays for a team that hasn't made the playoffs in forever. He also plays with bad defensive bigmen. He may not be a guy who can take a team over the top by himself but to use accolades as something against him misses the context of things a bit, no?

again could be a classic good stats bad team guy for all I know. But the Kings are such a tire fire its hard to truly ever know.

Maxey's improvement has softened me on getting Fox at all as I think they do similar things and neither are good enough off ball to play with each other (with Maxey being the better of the two at that atm somehow) and I think upgrading Seth and Danny is actually the goal for another ballhandler/shooter guy...but shotmaking wings are the holy grail atm so not exactly super available. Ingram is that but he also trends more towards the Tobias level of wing with his methodical herky jerky game into mid rangers...which we don't really need more of either. So its tough

That being said whoever we get for Ben will contribute more than he has so far......lololololo but none of them will be seamless fits..but getting another body to take some heat off of guys being over stretched like Seth and Kork would be nice either way,.

[fkd215]

Ben is such a polarized/polarizing figure.
--He’s a young 3 time all star, DPOY candidate _and_ at times he's unplayable.
--The team looks much better without him (offense) _and_ much worse (defense).
--There’s clearly something mental at work in his FT shooting spiral _and_ his camp is using mental health issues in an unprincipled way to get what he wants.

It’s all true at the same time, which makes it really hard to gauge his actual trade value.

[Zumramania]

Maxey and Haliburton would be a great backourt with sky-high potential, Maxey and Fox not so much.

[Negrodamus]

Fox starting with Maxey off the bench would be a constant pressure on the defense the entire game. I like Maxey a lot, but he needs to become at least an above average distributor before I'm starting him on a championship team.

[Mik317]

Is Fox that tho?

I only ever see the Kings when they play us which means like most guards he eats for free lol

[Negrodamus]

Is Fox that tho?

I only ever see the Kings when they play us which means like most guards he eats for free lol

He's decidedly a better distributor than Maxey. Also a proven foul drawer.

One thing that I think goes missing in these conversations about comparing players is that Maxey is playing on a team full of vets with Doc Rivers as his coach. De'Aaron Fox is playing with a bunch of dudes trying to figure their way in the league and has had like 3 different coaches throughout his career.

Comparing players stats, particularly advances stats, doesn't make sense out of context. Which is why comparing Ben, a guy who joined the team when it was on the cusp of being good, to stars who have been dragged through **** situations is perplexing to me. It's one thing if we were trying to trade Ben for a bonafide star (the Embiids, Hardens, Leonards, Lebrons of the league) who are supposed to draft a team to a winning record despite their supporting cast; but we're talking about 2nd and, in some cases, 3rd stars who are supposed to compliment the main star and help with production when the main guy goes cold or gets injured. They can exist on bad teams and produce huge numbers with lower efficiency.

[Stanford]

Fox was definitely better at the same age Maxey is now, but it's pretty damn close. And Tyrese is improving rapidly, so who knows where he'll be at the end of the season.

[Skates]

Give me Haliburton over Fox every time. A much cheaper, more versatile fit as a combo guard to pair with Maxey. I am generally not a fan of small guards, and at least Maxey is built thick and strong with long arms. Fox has had one decent shooting season with efficiency, the rest of the time has racked up points inefficiently, not really even a good foul shooter, though not Simmons bad. The team is playing well with a shared playmaking system, and Haliburton fits that well too.

[Kobblehead]

Haliburton is a subpar dribble penetrator and he seems gunshy this year from three. I feel like Fox is a significantly better player.

[Bum Adebayo]

It's all about scoring on the ball, you always choose the Foxes and the Ingrams over other role players.

[Skates]

Haliburton is a subpar dribble penetrator and he seems gunshy this year from three. I feel like Fox is a significantly better player.

Are you just trying to make me want him more? Maxey can penetrate and his numbers from three and his steals are outstanding. Haliburton is definitely a combo guard, not a lead guard, but a very efficient shooter and more than a ball pounder like Fox, he will benefit significantly from moving to a better team. a twin combo guard backcourt with good passing bigs on both units and Haliburton will likely come with some other salaries that can be aggregated with Danny Green in another deal.

Fox has shot the three at or above league average one season in his career, is a barely 70% FT shooter, and while he creates more assists, it isn't an enormous number like he is a topnotch passing lead guard, he has always been considered more of a scoring lead guard, and he scores inefficiently. He also has many more years of Kings cooties and bad habits all over him.

[sixers4real]

I think we need a wing player for Simmons that has size, length, shooting ability, driving ability.

Embiid / Drummond/ Bassey
Harris / Niang / Reed
(Simmons trade) / Korkmaz / Thybulle
Green / Curry / Joe
Maxey / Milton

So, we basically need Ingram.

[PhillyNj]

Fox was definitely better at the same age Maxey is now, but it's pretty damn close. And Tyrese is improving rapidly, so who knows where he'll be at the end of the season.

Totally untrue statement: Fox was a better distributor. Maxey is already a better shooter than Fox has ever been!

[SixthStreet]

I think Fox and Maxey are a compatible, if not optimal, backcourt. If we trade Simmons for Fox, I'm sure Doc's closing lineup will include both.

[Stanford]

Fox was definitely better at the same age Maxey is now, but it's pretty damn close. And Tyrese is improving rapidly, so who knows where he'll be at the end of the season.

Totally untrue statement: Fox was a better distributor. Maxey is already a better shooter than Fox has ever been!

I'd rather have the defense, the 2 additional free throws per game and the assists, personally. But he's right there.

[DCasey91]

I think Fox and Maxey are a compatible, if not optimal, backcourt. If we trade Simmons for Fox, I'm sure Doc's closing lineup will include both.

Compatible at being a horrendous backcourt yes sure.

I mean seriously a zero defensive perimeter gets you nowhere.

[Mik317]

thats not much worse than what we have now lol.

[DCasey91]

Kiss and make up, practice at getting better with free throws non stop (it’s technical just as much as it is mental) worse comes to worse just shoot it right handed who gives a **** now the book has been out for years on him.

There’s not much out there atm.

The potential three headed monster in Maxey/Embiid/Ben without Tobithus is great imo.

Maxey
Green
Niang
Ben
Embiid

Is that better than anything we can come up realistically? Probably. Look at the two way package from a team standpoint and scoring potential off the Embiid/Maxey pairing. No more Tobithus to dribble dribble anymore. Now there’s no more pecking order. Embiid scores inside and floats and Maxey is free to attack with Ben/Green/Niang sticking to their role and not taking up valuable usage. Such a simple setup here.

Play 2/3 out C & point forward and go to town. Also the size here is excellent on defense. Green/Simmons into Embiid outside and in. And the space won’t be clogged anymore because minivan >>>>> harris in any Embiid/Ben iteration and it’s not close at all.

It’s not like 2 bigs with less range never worked together.... or wait yes they do because one is a great passer/playmaker when he wants to b and utilized the correct way.

At first I thought Maxey wasn’t at the required skill to be the 3rd missing piece or the carpet to tie the room together but we’ve already seen this year plans change and rapidly, so go with the moving tide.

Everyone wants Ben gone but what if the answer is right under our noses? Hmmm what a turn of events we have boys and girls.

Gasol/Odom
Duncan/Diaw
Duncan/Robinson
Parish/Mchale
Kareem/Magic
Green/Bogut
Bosh/James
James/AD

Something something and so on.

That setup for me is better than anyone here has come up with frankly relative to expectation.

If Lillard is a no, Brown is a no, Fox is trash and Ingram means that Harris has to be gone to do anything of note because no defense.

So sit with the fingers tied under the bum and repair the relationship and that’s the responsibility on both sides.

Elite two way Big man into playmaking Big man with one of the best man to man fix hole defense for a team into relentless slashing guard that can shoot and finish and is an elite pnr scorer....

I mean isn’t that the trio that looks the best?

The JJ/Curry spam isn’t the best setup I believe the one above definitely is. Look I like Ingram/Brown but they aren’t going to fit as well as you might think they will. Basketball has one ball last time I checked.

[SixthStreet]

I think Fox and Maxey are a compatible, if not optimal, backcourt. If we trade Simmons for Fox, I'm sure Doc's closing lineup will include both.

Compatible at being a horrendous backcourt yes sure.

I mean seriously a zero defensive perimeter gets you nowhere.

It's better than Maxey/Curry. Lol

[the_process]

ATL gets Simmons, Bertans, and Springer
PHI gets Collins, Hunter, Gallinari, and Kuzma
WSH gets Harris