M2J wrote:mjkvol wrote:M2J wrote:Given this thread.... Do we give Rivers any credit for Joel's consistency that he didn't have before? What about excuses for the injuries to this man amongst others? Not to mention the excuse of just not having a real title team after the trade for Harden.
No question he gets some credit for that as well in part for
Maxey's growth as a player, but the question is whether we would have seen that growth if Simmons had shown up and played? Rivers will always be a good regular season coach because he plays his vets heavy minutes grinding for a higher seed, but at the expense of potentially developing young players who might be late season and playoff contributors. He wins a ton of games, but his failure in so many big spots in the playoffs, although not always his fault, can't just be a coincidence.
I posted this a few pages back.... Seems to answer the bolded IMO:
You have to be real with yourself. It is just a known thing that typically speaking unless is a necessity. Contending teams prefer veterans over rookie mistakes. Unless that rookie is just too good for that.
But it's also a blatant falsehood to say that rivers does not play young players.
1. Maxey played 61 games 15mpg in a 71 game season as a late first round pick on the first seed in the East. That's legit backup minutes. The roster had ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Danny Green, Furk, Shake, George Hill and Thybulle all with more experience... And relatively earlier in the season Maxi was tried out for a key rotation space that he failed in. He is undersized as a 2, still struggles as a point guard. Refused to shoot from 3 early, and struggle defensively and still sometimes does. But Rivers developed him and allowed him to play anyhow. He also played in every single playoff game. So please everyone stop with that narrative of Maxey only playing this year because of Ben. He may have started only because of Ben not being here but he was clearly going to play with his improvement. He was already playing before he was developed... Which is his development.
2. Matisse was a 2nd year player last season.
3. He chose Tony Bradley to start when Joel missed time. Who they should've kept... Another Morey mistake
4. Just in his last year with the Clippers.... Terrance Mann played, Zubac started I believe. Shamet did as well. Year before that...SGA was like a 30 mpg contributor on a playoff team as a rookie
So please at least stop that narrative.
Reed sucks That's why he didn't play. Joe was given a chance and he sucked too. When you're already under talented. You can't try to develop players and cost yourself games. Kerr It's struggling to even put Kuminga on the court.
This year it was that he played the starters too much with the bad bench. Last year it was that he played the bench too much. That's all well and good. But every time each of those were brought up, it seen as what he always does as opposed to him being able to adjust to what his team is. When the proof is there that he does that.
In the most important games of the season vs. the Nuggets Doc chose Harrell over Zubac, which just might have lost him the series. This was literally one of the main reasons he got fired. Quote:
"Two philosophical points of contention between Rivers and the organization were, more recently, his insistence on playing backup center Montrezl Harrell over starting center Ivica Zubac and, at large, his reluctance to develop or empower the team’s younger talent throughout his tenure," Buha said.
For those who haven't seen the data, the Clippers were significantly worse off when Harrell guarded Nikola Jokic, over Ivica Zubac [...]
The data was clearly apparent, not only to Rivers, but to everyone following the team. Not only was there an eye test to follow, but a clear +/- between playing Ivica Zubac and Montrezl Harrell. Yet somehow in Game 7, Zubac played 14 minutes, and Harrell played 26 minutes.
"Meanwhile, Rivers maintained, publicly to the media and privately to his staff and the organization, that Harrell was the better player, in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary [...]"
Sounds familiar?
I believe Reed and and Bassey have more potential than Bradley...Bradley is a scrub since he left the Sixers. But they need playing time to develop their potential, as well as Joe. "Joe was given a chance", yeah he was given like 5 minutes in five games.
I mean, Korkmaz, Millsap, DAJ, even Milton - these players are playoff trash, some of them are not even fit for the NBA in general. Why not try and see if we can develop something out of Joe, he does have some nice tools. Reed was given close very little playing time in the regular season, yet he was ok in the playoffs, he for sure outperformed DAJ.
Veteran players over rookie mistakes? Boston and Miami rosters have quite a few young players. I don't see that these players are holding them back, quite the opposite is true. Could you imagine, even in the wildest of fantasies, that Doc would sit Duncan Robinson with a 90/5 contract and play the undrafted Max Strus? If Duncan played, we maybe would have won against Miami, who knows.
Let's look at it like this: Spo, Udoka, Nurse even Budenholzer are in my opinion all better than Doc. This is not good at all, it means that we would have to have a significantly better roster to win. Besides, Doc is not even suited for this team, his old-school conservative approach would better work in e.g., Lakers, as already mentioned.
I'm not saying he is a bad coach, he is just not good enough.
